Of Saisons, Attenuation and Fermentation Aromas

I am fermenting my first ever saison and had a couple of questions.

I pitched a blend of yeasts. Partially because I had issues with the starter that rendered it useless. So on brew day, I double pitched. One vial of WLP568 and one vial of WLP550. I did the double-pitch because I had no starter. I used the 2 different varieties because supplies were limited at the LHBS that day.

OG 1.066. Fermented in an area that fluctuates between 75-80F. Today is day 16 in the primary. A gravity check today showed me at 1.008 (so around 72% attenuation more or less). I used a little mixed lemon and orange zest at knockout, as well as 1/2 ounce of lightly crushed coriander. Pitched into approx 75F oxygen aerated wort. High krausen between 8-10 hours after pitching.

I took my sample with a wine thief tonight and I did stir up a bit of the yeast/trub at the bottom of the fermenter. Wanting to get a good gauge of the flavor/aroma, I poured the hydrometer sample yeast and all into a glass and put it in the fridge for about 5 min. I decanted the beer off the trub into another glass and gave it a try. Happy to say that neither the citrus nor the coriander dominate the flavor or aroma. The both blend pretty well with the Belgian yeast character, even this early. Now to my questions:

1. There is a noticeable sulphur aroma to the beer now. I don't see sulphur listed as a possible aroma component with either yeast I used. Has anybody else had this experience with either of these strains? If so, will it age out or will the yeast scrub it out?

Since I'd hit my ballpark attenuation, I was planning to bottle this weekend (about 22 days into primary). Should I give it more time to bulk age before I bottle? If so, leave in primary or rack to secondary and how long? Never brewed a Saison before so I have no idea what time does for (or against) them.

2. Speaking of attenuation, I am on the low side for each strain. The 550 lists an attenuation range of 78-85%. The 568 lists 70-80%. I have no problem letting this sit and the area it's in will stay more than warm enough to keep the yeast moving. But most of the yeast is at the bottom of the fermenter, save a few clumps that are still floating around in the main body of the beer. Again, time is not a factor. Should I roust the yeast? Pitch a dry champagne yeast to try to dry it out a bit (per brewing classic styles?) Should I just bottle now and age it in the bottle?

The airlock is still floating, though there is not any noticable airlock activity at this point.

It's not overly sweet. Nor is it overly dry now.

I have a lot of hope for this beer. I'd love some help as to guiding it along the right path from here.

I just let my saison sit for over a month, waiting for it to drop to 1.006. The saison strains can take a super long time to fully attenuate. That could mean bottle bombs if bottling too early. That being said, 1.008 is pretty low already and I don't think another .004 points plus any carbing sugar would push it over the limit, although I would bottle in belgian or champagne bottles to be sure.

When in doubt, let it rest. Some of the sulphur character should mellow out in time. If you like a hoppy saison, you may lose some of that. Saison Dupont's old brewmaster said he thought their beer was best after 6 months of aging (in the bottle).

Grizzlybrew said:

I just let my saison sit for over a month, waiting for it to drop to 1.006. The saison strains can take a super long time to fully attenuate. That could mean bottle bombs if bottling too early. That being said, 1.008 is pretty low already and I don't think another .004 points plus any carbing sugar would push it over the limit, although I would bottle in belgian or champagne bottles to be sure.

When in doubt, let it rest. Some of the sulphur character should mellow out in time. If you like a hoppy saison, you may lose some of that. Saison Dupont's old brewmaster said he thought their beer was best after 6 months of aging (in the bottle).

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I wish I had read your post a little sooner. I re-hydrated a fresh packet of safeale-05 and pitched it about an hour ago. The aroma is glorious. It already has a crispness to the nose that I didn't pick up just the other day.

I have no problem letting this one sit for quite awhile. There is a regional contest I am targeting in Jan/Feb of next year. This is my first Saison and I want to give myself plenty of time in case:
1. It needs time to age
2. I don't like it and want to try again, or
3. My wife loses control of her senses and drinks it all

I built the Petit Saison from Northern Brewer and fell in love. It led me to try a Belgian Blonde and eventually Delirium Tremins from Austin Homebrew (now still burbling after 6 days in the primary). I wouldn't mess a whole lot with adding other yeasts as you might destroy something truly remarkable. Bottle this one and start another for your backup. I am thinking I may never brew another Chico Ale as long as I live.

Pitching multiple yeasts is almost a belgian past time. Remember - each one is going to add another level of flavors/aromas. It can definitelt get out of hand and become muddled, but sometimes it's what makes those wonderful complex flavors we love from belgians.

That being said, I'm not sure Safale-05 is going to get you any closer. I would just giv eit time and see what happens. I'm sure it'll be great. Good luck on the comp.

I've not had much experience with pitching again after primary appears to be mostly complete. I put the Safeale in around 7 last night (so about 14 hours). The airlock is not bubbling nor are there any obvious signs of additional activity. The only thing I see is that the center of the airlock is raised (indicating positive pressure in the carboy) where it was flat against the air outlet in the center before.

Will pitching to dry a beer like this show obvious signs of new fermentation? Or does the yeast just go quietly to work at the remaining sugar meaning I just need to give them another couple of weeks before bottling?

If you're looking for a real high attenuator, next time try 3711 French Saison.

winvarin said:

I've not had much experience with pitching again after primary appears to be mostly complete. I put the Safeale in around 7 last night (so about 14 hours). The airlock is not bubbling nor are there any obvious signs of additional activity. The only thing I see is that the center of the airlock is raised (indicating positive pressure in the carboy) where it was flat against the air outlet in the center before.

Will pitching to dry a beer like this show obvious signs of new fermentation? Or does the yeast just go quietly to work at the remaining sugar meaning I just need to give them another couple of weeks before bottling?

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Well, if you are repitching into what is already a hostile environment for the yeast (which your high-fg beer is right now), just throwing another packet in won't do the trick. You need a BIG population at the peak of their activity. If you are going to repitch, build a small (1-2L) starter/beer and when the yeasts are extremely active, then you can dump the whole thing in.

I wouldn't worry about adverse affects. I just don't know if it will aid fermentation. Just keep it warm and let ir rest - the yeasts know what to do. They may take their sweet time doing it, but it will get done. If you haven't seen any changes after a month, then I would build a starter and repitch.

So a question about just tossing a pack of rehydrated Safeale 05. If I am already at 1.008 and I should not expect a lot of movement, what should I do about time on the main yeast cake? I am at 3 weeks already. Do I wait until I am a month in, then move it? Or should I give it several more weeks in primary.

Since I just pitched the 05, I don't want to risk off flavors by pulling it before it's had time to let that run its course (whatever course it may run). My last 2 beers have had acetaldehyde issues that I am attributing to early racking/kegging.

But at the same time, I have never had a beer in primary this long and am a little nervous about leaving it too long without moving off the primary yeast cake.

Tomorrow is day 20 in primary. I tossed the safeale in at day 18.

winvarin said:

what should I do about time on the main yeast cake?

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I use to always transfer after 10-14 days due to worries about autolysis, but I have gotten over my fear. You'll find people on here that have left beers in the primary accidentally for half a year or more with no ill results. The saison I just finished was in the primary for about a month and a half when all was said and done - and it's delicious.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably give it another couple of weeks to settle out and bottle it. If you leave in the primary that long, is there still enough yeast left to bottle condition? Or do you have to pitch fresh yeast at bottling? I've heard that's another Belgian pastime.

Speaking of long primaries, I need to post a pic of a porter I have going right now. Have not taken a gravity reading, but tomorrow it will be 14 days in primary. I am still getting a bubble through the airlock every 3-5 seconds and there is a nice layer of bubbles on the top of it (not a full krausen tho). It's WLP001 fermenting in an ambient temp of about 65F.

As far as the yeast, there should be plenty left. If you're concerned, just let the racking cane dip into the yeast cake. But, there should be plenty.

On my next batch, I think I will redose with champagne yeast - more for the carbonation profile though than the reliability of a successful carbing.

For the porter, that may be a little cool for the WLP001. If you can, move it to a slightly warmer location (68-70), gently rouse the yeast and it should finish up in a day or two.

Grizzlybrew said:

As far as the yeast, there should be plenty left. If you're concerned, just let the racking cane dip into the yeast cake. But, there should be plenty.

On my next batch, I think I will redose with champagne yeast - more for the carbonation profile though than the reliability of a successful carbing.

For the porter, that may be a little cool for the WLP001. If you can, move it to a slightly warmer location (68-70), gently rouse the yeast and it should finish up in a day or two.

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I did that yesterday as a matter of fact. My fermenting fridge is a little flaky and not entirely reliable (I think it has a short). We were going out of town for the night and I moved the beer into a bathroom that stays about 70. Bubbles were mostly gone at that point and the flavor was decent. It's down to about 1.014 (from an OG of 1.066).