cd38
Well-Known Member
Anybody planning on buying any equipment with your refunds, lol if you are getting one. Just wondering cause this is my christmas present.
Tax Time
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riverfrontbrewer
Well-Known Member
No refund here, but it's planned that way!
peachwein
Well-Known Member
Haha, i asked this question last year. The majority of people here essentially (without really saying it) said i was stupid for getting a refund.. and that i should have arranged it so that i wouldnt be getting one, because of the interest i could be earning... I however will still be getting a refund this year, and i do plan on going all grain in the spring, and a refund may help.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
No returns. I don't lend the Government money.
Same for me
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
I'll probably owe money... errrr
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
Just consider it an interest free loan.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
Unless I owe too much, then I'll pay a penalty/interest, but I dont think the hit will be that bad.
Only the &(%^ing government would be so kind to LOAN you your own money and want it back.... but i guess that is for the debate forum.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
It's not the governments doing - the goverrnment doesnt take loans or loan out any money, but people do it themselves and not even know it.
Anyone, who isnt self employed, should calculate what their w-2 withholdings should be for their particular situation. The IRS has very good calculators that do this for you. The self employed should make estimated tax payments. There's no reason for anyone to owe a large amount, or be due a large refund with proper planning. I owe money because I have to start paying back a home buyers tax credit.
Anyone who has a large refund, previously told their employer to make these tax payments to the IRS through form W-4. The IRS isn't deciding how much to take out, the employee and employer are.
Does anyone write off their brewing equipment? Anyone could set up a simple LLC for the purpose of researching a brewery business model, then your equipment would cost 30% or more less. You could buy test equipment and do research for the company and write off the equipment. You can legally do this without any profitability for 3-5 years to test viability of the corporate model. Your research could extend to tasting your competition's product or visiting your potential competition's brewing facilities. Just a thought..
ChandlerBang
Well-Known Member
Audits are not always random.
remilard
Well-Known Member
Since I am not interested in starting a brewery this would obviously be fraudulent, so no I do not do it.
Also if you have income in the 33% marginal bracket you probably are at high risk of paying AMT anyway.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
Wouldnt you only be able to write off your expenses against your revenue? So unless you're a pro brewer, not really possible. I think you'd have a hard time writing off your homebrew equipment against the your salary and other income. Also why would you need to setup an LLC, can you just be a sole proprietorship?
And to setup any brewing business, dont you need a license or two or 7? Hard to write off brewing gear without being a brewery.
ChandlerBang
Well-Known Member
You can write that stuff of as it shows up as a net loss from a business. Reducing your overall income and tax load. The licenses and stuff would be the deal breaker I think. If you had ZERO sales, and audit would hose you because it would be very obviously fraudulent.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but I understand that living in the greatest country on the planet isn't free.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
It is for 47% of us.
Just trying to be helpful here. There have been many books and articles written on this subject. It does require effort to set up and maintain proper books to stay within IRS guidelines. I've owned several businesses, some of them very profitable, others never turned a profit. The IRS will begin questioning any business that doesn't turn a profit within 3 years and you must by 5 years. Audits are definitely not random for the most part.
You don't need to pay for licenses when you are in the 'investigative phase' of your corporate model. After investigating, you may simply decide it doesn't have the profitability potential you need and shut it down later.
Have you've ever wondered whether you could make it as a microbrewery or had any interest in making a living off this hobby? If the answer is no, it would be fraudulent for you to set up a business to see if it could work.
It's not something you can do off the cuff, it requires work, research and preparation. However, the rewards normally offset the effort required.
You don't need to pay for licenses when you are in the 'investigative phase' of your corporate model. After investigating, you may simply decide it doesn't have the profitability potential you need and shut it down later.
Have you've ever wondered whether you could make it as a microbrewery or had any interest in making a living off this hobby? If the answer is no, it would be fraudulent for you to set up a business to see if it could work.
It's not something you can do off the cuff, it requires work, research and preparation. However, the rewards normally offset the effort required.
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Could you still enter homebrew competitions?
Most state
And yes, I'll admit, I'm being a little bit of a troll here.
A large portion of that 47% are even paid to live here. I need to brew some big beers so they will be ready for April. Tax time pisses me off.
riverfrontbrewer
Well-Known Member
I have always wondered where people come up with the "must turn a profit in 3-5 years" thing.
Now you know from the linked article.
How to prove your Hobby is a business (for those that didn't click the link)
The IRS has a "3-of-5" test. One popular test for determining profit motive is called the "3-of-5" test. If your business made a profit in any three out of the past five consecutive years, it is presumed to have a profit motive. This means that if you claim a loss for the third straight year after starting your business, you may be inviting an audit.
riverfrontbrewer
Well-Known Member
Exactly, it is a TEST, not a RULE. Many businesses operate for years in the red, due in large part to Int/depr/amort...non cash items. Yet a 3-5 test is never considered, because of the fact that it is run as a BUSINESS and not a HOBBY.
I would strongly advise against this brewing hobby as a business venture unless you were very serious about going commercial.
Now I know, thats funny ****!
I would strongly advise against this brewing hobby as a business venture unless you were very serious about going commercial.
Now I know, thats funny ****!
Hope I didn't offend. It wasn't clear on your initial post "I have always wondered where people come up with the "must turn a profit in 3-5 years" thing." if you were commenting that now you know, or you were still wondering. I made the assumption that you read the link and your question was rhetorical, but wasn't sure if others read it. That's why I excerpted from the link.
You seem astute in this area, or at least strongly opinionated.
I begrudgingly admit that I am one of these. Because the Government views me as "poor" and I have 3 kids, my tax "return" is substantially larger than what I pay in (which is almost zero). I think it's a stupid system, but I don't quite have enough integrity to give it back! :cross: I do always give a hunk to something charity.
For the record, I do not have food stamps, or any other Government handouts. I feed my kids all year, still put money in the bank, can afford my brewing toys, have no debt (except the mortgage), and still they feel the need to give your hard earned money to me because I "can't afford to live". Bah, it's actually insulting.
Sorry for the situation, I think it's crap, but thank you for the conical fermenters (yes that's plural) that you are all buying me next month!
(sorry again)
zanemoseley
Well-Known Member
I closed on our house in early December 2008 and got the subsequent tax "credit" of $7,500 which I have to pay back $500 a year. I haven't spent a dime of it yet. A co-worker got in on the revised credit that began January 1st 2009, he got $8,000 without having to pay it back. Now if that doesn't piss you off lol.
I could have got some cool stuff with $8k. I'm to financially responsible to spend the $7,500 which I know isn't mine but couldn't resist taking it in case of a rainy day. Oh well in 15 years it will be mine lol.
I could have got some cool stuff with $8k. I'm to financially responsible to spend the $7,500 which I know isn't mine but couldn't resist taking it in case of a rainy day. Oh well in 15 years it will be mine lol.
culturejam
Well-Known Member
Nice! Do you adjust your W2 withholding every year to match the decline in your mortgage interest deduction to make sure it zeroes out? If so, color me insanely impressed.
I used to work for CPAs, and I know some people are actually that on top of stuff. I just can't be arsed to keep up with the decline curve of the mortgage deduction and the ever-increasing property tax deduction:
remilard
Well-Known Member
I try to keep mine +/- 2%.
A $6500 or so tax credit for a ground source heat pump installation should result in a refund outside of that tolerance this year. It will go in the big fungible money pile with the rest of it.
A $6500 or so tax credit for a ground source heat pump installation should result in a refund outside of that tolerance this year. It will go in the big fungible money pile with the rest of it.
r8rphan
Well-Known Member
culturejam
Well-Known Member
You remind me of my next-door neighbor. Nice guy. He works for a company that does very seasonal work (installing in-ground lawn irrigation systems), so every late fall, his boss "lays him off" so that he can draw unemployment benefits. And then every early spring, he magically gets rehired. During the "laid off" period, my neighbor submits false reports of attempts to find work so he can continue to draw the benefit checks. He's been doing this for about 10 years now, and he doesn't seem to feel any sort of shame or embarrassment over it.
And the real kicker is that he likes to ***** about the taxes and honestly can't figure out why they are so high. And he likes to rail about freeloading minorities.
By the way, curlyfat, you could very easily "give back" a bigger portion of that money to a charity that supports people who are actually struggling. Surely there are local charities in your area that could use the cash. Maybe buy yourself just one conical with "my" money.
You remind me of my next-door neighbor. Nice guy. He works for a company that does very seasonal work (installing in-ground lawn irrigation systems), so every late fall, his boss "lays him off" so that he can draw unemployment benefits. And then every early spring, he magically gets rehired. During the "laid off" period, my neighbor submits false reports of attempts to find work so he can continue to draw the benefit checks. He's been doing this for about 10 years now, and he doesn't seem to feel any sort of shame or embarrassment over it.
And the real kicker is that he likes to ***** about the taxes and honestly can't figure out why they are so high. And he likes to rail about freeloading minorities.
By the way, curlyfat, you could very easily "give back" a bigger portion of that money to a charity that supports people who are actually struggling. Surely there are local charities in your area that could use the cash. Maybe buy yourself just one conical with "my" money.
Well, at the end of the day, I am a hypocritical ass. My "chunk" I give is 50% to a few local carities I believe in.
Legally, I'm required to file my taxes, and who wouldn't take money they're legally required to get?
As noted, I know I'm being hypocritical by bitching about the system that I currently benefit from. If it makes you feel better, I am striving to become one of those folks that is required to give away half their income...hopefully then karma will be balanced.
I really hope you aren't comparing me to a fellow who fraudulently collects unemployment. I work 60+ hours a week, year round, managing a business. The screwed up part is that the Government somehow thinks that my income isn't enough to get by on. Rail against the policy makers that continually increase the money us "moochers" receive. Don't get all high and mighty with me, I'm on your side!
Feel free to come by and I'll gladly discuss it over a pint from my ill-gotten kegerator.
EDIT: Oh! And I know a few folks that are "struggling". They are on food stamps, get a much bigger tax "return" than I do, and ***** about how the price of cigarettes and cable TV is going up. They think they are somehow "owed" the food stamps and big returns, and seem to spend most of their money from employment on things that have nothing to do with improving their family's situation. These are people I employ and consider friends (on some level, anyway). One fellow quit his second job because the extra income decreased his food-stamp allowance. That sort of thing just drives me nuts. There's no sense of making it on your own.
I am sorry my donations don't meet your standards. Like I state multiple times, I think this system is retarded at best, and there is no reason I should be receiving forced charity, but I am just greedy enough to accept it.
To the OP:
I'm buying two stainless steel 14g conical fermentors!
:rockin:
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
Nice! Do you adjust your W2 withholding every year to match the decline in your mortgage interest deduction to make sure it zeroes out? If so, color me insanely impressed.
I do actually after learning that lesson 2 years ago after refinancing and getting a much better rate. That was a "WTF happened........Ohhhhhhhhhhhh" moment.
SWMBO works day care at home, claiming it, but haven't paid taxes all year on it so 1099 = money out of my pocket.
I work and pay taxes just more than needed to not OWE to the IRS, my extra will likely balance out what my wifes owes seeing as she only made 6K in 2010. we have a mortgage payment and one child.
I might get money back and if we do its going towards debt. damn the economy for crashing and me buying stuff on credit hoping for another HUGE bonus. tis my own fault and I have no one else to blame but my self.
-=Jason=-
I work and pay taxes just more than needed to not OWE to the IRS, my extra will likely balance out what my wifes owes seeing as she only made 6K in 2010. we have a mortgage payment and one child.
I might get money back and if we do its going towards debt. damn the economy for crashing and me buying stuff on credit hoping for another HUGE bonus. tis my own fault and I have no one else to blame but my self.
-=Jason=-
cedar_lake
Well-Known Member
I used to be one of those "Don't give Uncle Sam an interest-free loan" people, but for the last couple of years my wife and have been using high withholding as a separate little savings account, a chunk of money we don't count on to live off of and that we only see and make decisions about once a year. It's easy to piss away a couple grand a year on nothing, a lot harder to hold it all in your hand once a year and make an irresponsible decision with it. Our tax refund usually goes toward the next home improvement on our priority list, or into savings.
milesvdustin
Well-Known Member
This year I budgeted so my whole refund is gonna buy me four more better bottles and a kegging setup.
culturejam
Well-Known Member
Well good for you. :rockin:
Do you deduct that at the end of the year? haha, just kidding. :cross:
I guess I've just never been in a situation where the government gives me back all the money I paid in plus some extra. I'm not sure how I'd feel about being financially okay but still taking money from the dole. Hopefully, I'll never find out.Legally, I'm required to file my taxes, and who wouldn't take money they're legally required to get?
It's not about making me feel better. If you feel that what you are doing is ethical, and you don't lose any sleep, then that's all that matters. Karma is individual. What I think of you is irrelevant. What you think of yourself is what matters.
I'm not judging you. Obviously you're in line with the law. I just don't think I could be okay with that situation. But as I said above, if it doesn't bother you, keep on with it. I'm a believer in situational ethics. Morality is subjective.
Stop being sorry.
Sorry.
I appreciate your detailed response to my rant!
My last post probably should have been in the drunken ramblings forum...
It's a stupid system we have set up in this country. Perhaps it'll change to a flat tax someday, but I doubt it.
Let's get back to the question at hand: If you get a "refund", will you buy any cool brewing toys?
.I appreciate your detailed response to my rant!
My last post probably should have been in the drunken ramblings forum...
It's a stupid system we have set up in this country. Perhaps it'll change to a flat tax someday, but I doubt it.
Let's get back to the question at hand: If you get a "refund", will you buy any cool brewing toys?
culturejam
Well-Known Member
I'll probably get something, but it won't be huge. Probably a new, larger kettle or maybe one of those small Minibrew conicals.
The rest is going to a) pay down debt and b) squirrel away for the old "emergency" fund.
We used to try to balance out to get a small refund ($100 or so) but with varying deployment cycles and the tax free and hazardous duty pay it's difficult to estimate what exactly you'll be claiming in a given year. So far we've always overestimated our taxes and have gotten back more (sometimes much more).
I remember one year when both SWMBO and I were deployed a total of 18 months in the year between us. The CPA was having nightmares over our return. He was convinced we had to be cheating somewhere but he was damned if he could figure out where.
I remember one year when both SWMBO and I were deployed a total of 18 months in the year between us. The CPA was having nightmares over our return. He was convinced we had to be cheating somewhere but he was damned if he could figure out where.
