Homebrew on a pro system for a fee.

Just found this on the denver post blog. Interesting idea. Would you want to try it?

http://blogs.denverpost.com/beer/2013/07/08/brew-your-own-beer-with-pro-equipment/10778/#more-10778

Might be a good idea to see what brewing on a pro system looks like.

i think its a great idea. especially if they are in a market with a high number of homebrewers.

This statement made me sad though

Factotum will store and serve the beer themselves.

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So you can not take it home to serve to friends or enjoy yourself.

Could be some odd law?
Are they covering the tax that the feds bestow on them when the wort enters the fermenter?

Im sure there are laws about taking it home but I would hope some free growlers or a 5 gal keg for brewing there would be part of it.

I spend $350 to brew a beer. They keep the recipe and the beer (which they sell to customers, apparently). What's in it for me?

I'm with EasterBrook. Seems fun, and I can see some learning experience gained, but seems like the brewery is really getting all of the benefits. You pay, do the work, give away a recipe, and don't get anything but an expensive brew day with someone else's equipment.

Seems like it is a good idea if approached more from the "experience how the pros brew" perspective (like people who pay to go to fantasy baseball camps, etc.) You are not really brewing your own beer . . . in the sense that it ends up being "yours." Perhaps the headline is just misleading.

The only real problem I see from this is for the brewery itself - seems like you would be risking the possibility of having a fair number of crappy beers and poorly thought out offerings on tap if you REALLY let the brewer do what they want. There are a lot of brewers out there that throw stuff together and think it will be great..... "we could put 'this' in too" kind of stuff. You would not want to end up with a lot of offerings that were bad or would not sell. In that regard, the owner would have to have a fair amount of "guidance" in formulating the recipe..... and then at a certain point it is not your beer to take home, and it is really not "your" beer from a recipe/formulation stand point either.

But, for those people that always wonder - should I open a brewery, it might be kind of a cool way to dip your toe in. I wonder if they "let" the customer come in and clean for 30-40 hours before and after their one day brewing experience so they can REALLY get a feel for brewing?

My first brewing experience was like this...kinda. I brewed a batch with a buddy at Tombstone Brew pub in Tempe, AZ on one of their small batch kettles. They had a recipe book, we went thru it to find a recipe then brewed it. A couple weeks later, we bottled it and took it home. I remember the cost being around $120 or so.

It was actually a fun time and we made some damn good beer. I also believe we used extract.

Easterbrook said:

I spend $350 to brew a beer. They keep the recipe and the beer (which they sell to customers, apparently). What's in it for me?

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This...

No thanks.

I agree that this one sounds like he may be fishing for that homebrewer that has a really good recipe or recipe idea. then seeing as how they retain the rights to it,it's his & not yours. He said he didn't know much about homebrewing. So instead of trying to come up with his own good beers,like others have done,he wants to cut straight to the chase. Dumping experimental batches can get expensive in a hurry.

unionrdr said:

I agree that this one sounds like he may be fishing for that homebrewer that has a really good recipe or recipe idea. then seeing as how they retain the rights to it,it's his & not yours. He said he didn't know much about homebrewing. So instead of trying to come up with his own good beers,like others have done,he wants to cut straight to the chase. Dumping experimental batches can get expensive in a hurry.

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I don't know........ Is there actually an "undiscovered" recipe in existence? I suppose - MAYBE - some kind of real specialty type brew with odd ingredients - but for an actual beer style?

Recipe formation seems like one of the least significant aspects of brewing to me - there are literally thousands of GREAT recipes available for little to nothing - Go buy Brewing Classic Styles, buy the annual zymurgy issue that posts all the NHC winner recipes, Google clone recipes that the brewers themselves contribute to (pliny). I mean, honestly, I can't think of an easier aspect in all of homebrewing than getting a good recipe. If you have brewed 5 batches of beer in your life, and can't find a "good recipe" you are are one (or all) of the following:
A.) Living somewhere in the absence of all forms of technology
B.) Not trying or looking very hard
C.) Not very smart.

You would have to know tremendously little about brewing in order to need random homebrewers to come up with your recipes. At that point - I would question if that person was even capable of recognizing a good beer if they had one.

Sanitation and Process make great beer - recipes...... well.....they are a dime a dozen imho.

I can see this whole thing as a nice little side business/niche though if you were in a big enough market - Pull in an extra couple thousand dollars a month, generate interest in your brewery/brewpub, get people to pay you so that they can then go tell 20 of their friends - "Hey, we all have to go to this place so you can try the beer I helped brew" (and pay for it all over again). Honestly, people pay money all the time for dumber things than spending a day in a professional brewery helping to brew a batch of beer. Could see people giving it to dad for X-mas, anniversary, father's day, etc. If no one bites - you are not really out any money......

I/we know where to find good recipes. But this guy admits he doesn't know much about home brewing. so it's a possibility. A buddy told me years ago that "chances are good that if you thought of it,someone else has too". But I def think it's a bit dumb to pay a fee that starts at $350 to brew it,then pay again to drink it just for the novelty of saying "hey y'all,i brewed this!". I'll do it myself,thank you.

Braufessor said:

I don't know........ Is there actually an "undiscovered" recipe in existence? I suppose - MAYBE - some kind of real specialty type brew with odd ingredients - but for an actual beer style?

Recipe formation seems like one of the least significant aspects of brewing to me - there are literally thousands of GREAT recipes available for little to nothing....

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This. In business terms, a recipe isn't worth much. Process is far more important. Recipes can easily be replicated, not to mention that there are limitless ones out there available for free. Budweiser didn't get so popular because of it's recipe; they are so successful because of their process, distribution, and marketing.

...

Back on topic. I think it would be a neat idea if you just wanted to experience what it was like to brew like a pro. I wouldn't personally go drop that kind of money to brew and not even keep all the beer, but I could see this making a great gift for an aspiring brewer, or someone who is thinking about going pro and wants to know what it will be like.

unionrdr said:

I agree that this one sounds like he may be fishing for that homebrewer that has a really good recipe or recipe idea. then seeing as how they retain the rights to it,it's his & not yours. He said he didn't know much about homebrewing. So instead of trying to come up with his own good beers,like others have done,he wants to cut straight to the chase. Dumping experimental batches can get expensive in a hurry.

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unionrdr said:

I/we know where to find good recipes. But this guy admits he doesn't know much about home brewing. so it's a possibility. A buddy told me years ago that "chances are good that if you thought of it,someone else has too". But I def think it's a bit dumb to pay a fee that starts at $350 to brew it,then pay again to drink it just for the novelty of saying "hey y'all,i brewed this!". I'll do it myself,thank you.

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He doesn't state anywhere in that interview that he "doesn't know much about home brewing." The article says: “Some people are going to come in knowing more than me,” Christopher said. “And some won’t know anything about homebrewing.”

That's just being humble and honest. I've been homebrewing for a long time, have an advanced degree in chemistry, and have read and experimented a ton, but there will always be homebrewers out there who know more than me in a given situation. You seem to be inferring (in multiple posts) that he's he's really inexperienced and just fishing for more experienced brewers' great recipes, which is inferring a lot from what is actually written in the article.

You read the entire body of work in regard to his thoughts,& that's what you get. I'm an english major all through gollege with A's thaat tutored others. I have a 6th sense for this kind of thing after working for Ford...you have too.

The price tag may not be so bad when you factor in the cost for ingredients; it doesn't say anything about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they wouldn't let you fill a carboy or two with wort to ferment at home.

There was a sunday session podcast last month about the Colorado Boy brewing school/mentorship. I'm sure these people are legit, and can brew their own beer. It sounds like they're trying to offer their own form of 1-day schooling. It's pricey, but I could see doing it for the experience. I've only got maybe a 1-2% chance of winning a pro-am in any given year, so I could see doing this in a few years if I really wanted to brew big once, and drink my beer in a taphouse. You're recipe is forfeit once you win a pro-am, anyway.

Sounds like a deal to me. In fact if anyone wants to come and brew on my homemade almost amateur junkyard system come on down. Bring your own ingredients, propane, and be prepared to clean your mess. Oh and you have to share.

unionrdr said:

You read the entire body of worjk in regard to his thoughts,& that's what you get. I'm an english major all through gollege with A's thaat tutored others. I have a 6th sense for this kind of thing after working for Ford...you have too.

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Not sure what you're getting at here, but I definitely meant no offense. Just saying that the one quote from Chris in that interview - “Some people are going to come in knowing more than me, and some won’t know anything about homebrewing.” is clearly not equivalent to him "admitting that he doesn't know much about homebrewing."

I actually know the couple starting the business, and they are definitely not looking to "cash in" on other homebrewers' recipes. Seems to me that someone who "doesn't know much about homebrewing" starting a business where they let a bunch of other novice homebrewers come in and make recipes blindly while they rake in tons of cash is a mildly ridiculous business plan. More likely is that the two of them are looking to develop a business based on a unique model that isn't being done elsewhere (or if it is, I haven't heard of it). And based on the astronomical number of homebrewers in our area, and the continuously growing interest in craft brewing at all scales here as well, maybe the idea isn't that half-baked. Hey, it got a discussion going here...

moti_mo said:

I actually know the couple starting the business, and they are definitely not looking to "cash in" on other homebrewers' recipes. Seems to me that someone who "doesn't know much about homebrewing" starting a business where they let a bunch of other novice homebrewers come in and make recipes blindly while they rake in tons of cash is a mildly ridiculous business plan. More likely is that the two of them are looking to develop a business based on a unique model that isn't being done elsewhere (or if it is, I haven't heard of it). And based on the astronomical number of homebrewers in our area, and the continuously growing interest in craft brewing at all scales here as well, maybe the idea isn't that half-baked. Hey, it got a discussion going here...

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Yeah, it sounds pretty reasonable to me to do something different, but I wonder if they're really going to have a half-dozen beers on tap at any given time that were brewed by home-brewers. That seems unlikely to me, but maybe it will happen. The more I think about the $350 price-tag, it seems pretty reasonable. Try calling any other small brewery, tell them you want to brew one of your beers on there system, and see where that conversation goes. The article also says that the brewery will consult with the home-brewer, and I'm sure that means that if your recipe requires adding 300 lbs of Twinkies to the mash tun, they'll try to steer you in another direction.

moti_mo said:

Not sure what you're getting at here, but I definitely meant no offense. Just saying that the one quote from Chris in that interview - “Some people are going to come in knowing more than me, and some won’t know anything about homebrewing.” is clearly not equivalent to him "admitting that he doesn't know much about homebrewing."

I actually know the couple starting the business, and they are definitely not looking to "cash in" on other homebrewers' recipes. Seems to me that someone who "doesn't know much about homebrewing" starting a business where they let a bunch of other novice homebrewers come in and make recipes blindly while they rake in tons of cash is a mildly ridiculous business plan. More likely is that the two of them are looking to develop a business based on a unique model that isn't being done elsewhere (or if it is, I haven't heard of it). And based on the astronomical number of homebrewers in our area, and the continuously growing interest in craft brewing at all scales here as well, maybe the idea isn't that half-baked. Hey, it got a discussion going here...

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I looked back at my post,& think I may've come off a bit high brow. But while it is a different business plan,I'm not sure how well it'll work with that price tag. Certainly an interesting concept,but paying to drink the beer you paid to brew doesn't sound like a good deal to me. I wouldn't think that most home brewers could afford the price tag.

unionrdr said:

Certainly an interesting concept,but paying to drink the beer you paid to brew doesn't sound like a good deal to me. I wouldn't think that most home brewers could afford the price tag.

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I would agree that it seems like there should at least be a discount (ideally a pretty hefty one) for the homebrewer who came up with, paid for, and brewed the recipe. But it doesn't state that in the article, and I haven't actually discussed their full business plan with them in any detail, so I don't know about that.

For the $350 price tag, I'd imagine you'd see lots of small groups of friends and homebrew clubs chipping in together to do group brews on a pro system.

Also not sure what the size of the system is. Working on a 3 barrel nano system isn't that much of a jump from a decent homebrew rig, but stepping up to an 8+ barrel automated system would be a nice testing ground. But then again, 8+ barrel brews that don't come out quite right and flop in the tasting room could also be a liability.

I could see doing a brew there if you had a big birthday coming up (or something similar), and wanted to invite friends to the brewery on the first tapping night to celebrate. That would be pretty cool. I imagine that the brewer will get a discount on pints, but I doubt it would be free.

moti_mo said:

For the $350 price tag, I'd imagine you'd see lots of small groups of friends and homebrew clubs chipping in together to do group brews on a pro system.

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I hadn't considered the club / group aspect of it... That actually could be a cool little event. We've done club barrel projects where each brewer makes 5-10 gallons and they all get blended into the barrel, and our club is full of pretty solid brewers so there aren't really "bad" beers going into the barrel. But the option of having a big batch, brewed properly and homogeneous, to fill that barrel would be cool. And the cost distributed over a wider group could bring it within reach.

Of course, if I did it as part of a club or group, I'd want to negotiate an option that all of the original group members got to take home a full corny of fermented beer in addition to having the option of serving it on draft at the pub. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth it for me.

I think it is a FANTASTIC idea!! Of course it would be great for club or special events, but what about just getting a brewery off the ground? 350 dollars is not bad when you consider it as "advertising" for your brewery in planning. It is an easy way to get your name out there AND have people drink your beer.