Session Double IPA - Heavily hopped with low abv?

Hi guys,

Stupid question, but i'm wondering what a Session Double IPA is? Heavily hopped with low ABV?

What do you call a 4-6% IPA that is around 120-130 IBUs?

That's how i like my IPAs, double the hops without increasing the grain bill from a standard or session IPA. I feel like the higher ABV and malt flavor doesn't let the hops really shine.

So what do you think?

lolcats said:

What do you call a 4-6% IPA that is around 120-130 IBUs?

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Hop cider?

My second batch, I brewed a very light beer and hopped the bejeezus out of it.

Wasn't really pleasant, no malt to back up the big hop punch and it came off tasting/feeling cidery.

I don't think that's true..

Most of the Double IPAs I've had were overly malty (toffeeish) and sweet which make them nearly undrinkable.

I had Nordic Pines from Ithaca beer co yesterday and thought wow what a waste of hops and incredible pine flavor that i can barely notice.

That's the whole difficulty. I'm sure it's possible to make a Double IPA with the grain bill of a standard IPA with enough malt backbone to support the hops (Maybe not 4% but sure it's possible to accomplish at 6%)

That would really let the hops shine.

Agree that most commercial DIPAs are awfully sweet and not done properly.
How much hops are we talking?

There's an interesting bit from this old post on Tonsmeire's blog about making an "EisPA". Basically concentrating an IPA down to a double or triple IPA. According to this post, you get the higher ABV without adding any sweetness. I just read this yesterday and thought it was interesting. It's underneath his tasting notes where it says "Bonus" :

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/03/big-ipa-tasting-plus-eispa.html

Well... if you do a 4-6% beer at 120-130 IBU as you stated, it would be much to bitter for me. No thanks.

I just brewed a big DIPA, OG was 1.087, FG is sitting at 1.013... 9.7% and 100+ IBU.

That sample was in no way sweet... I used 5% crystal for some color and I'd say it's perfect where it's at.

I would personally keep the IBU around 50-60 and murder it with late additions/hop stand and dry hop.

That sounds much better suited to my tastes.

hanuswalrus said:

There's an interesting bit from this old post on Tonsmeire's blog about making an "EisPA". Basically concentrating an IPA down to a double or triple IPA. According to this post, you get the higher ABV without adding any sweetness. I just read this yesterday and thought it was interesting. It's underneath his tasting notes where it says "Bonus" :

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/03/big-ipa-tasting-plus-eispa.html

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Yep this is pretty much the idea.


@ m00ps: around 3 or 4 oz a gallon

go for it. Ive done sessions IPAs with that much. getting the grain bill right is the key

I'm all for removing sweetness from big IPA's, which can usually be done by mashing in the high 140's and adding some sugar (maybe 5% dextrose).

120 - 130 IBU would reduce the enjoyment of the hop flavor though unless your bitterness receptors are totally shot. I like my bitterness to be maximum 10x the ABV (ie 70 IBU for 7.0%) with a ton of finishing hops.

m00ps said:

go for it. Ive done sessions IPAs with that much. getting the grain bill right is the key

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Would you really bitter a 'session IPA' to over 100 IBU?

lolcats said:

What do you call a 4-6% IPA that is around 120-130 IBUs?

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a ridiculously out of balance pale ale

Lol

Base on the 2015 BJCP Style Guidelines, a Session Double is a contradiction. Take a look at the Strength Classification for 21B. Specialty IPA. 2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf

Not entirely sure but you might call it a Mixed-Style beer (34B) or Experimental beer (34C), if you are cranking the IBUs way above 70. Otherwise, if it session strength with 40 to 70 IBUs, but with LOTS of aroma, then it is just a Session IPA.

However, i did see an article bashing the Session Double IPA naming of a beer by Shmaltz Brewing. In the comments, you will actually see that someone from Shmaltz replied that they are calling their beer a Session Double IPA because it is about 8% rather than 9+%. This doesn't make it any more correct though.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/04/session-double-ipa-and-other-beer-terms-i-hope-to.html

Here's a shot of the hops for the Pliny recipe I have:

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1452802931.317209.jpg

Bittered with Warrior and Chinook. This combo came out pretty good for me and that was without water treatment.

I'm about to do a mainly Centennial & Columbus IPA and as luck would have it I ran across a Founders Centennial IPA...it's very good but I like my beer more dry with a lighter body so I'm going to include some corn sugar.

Psylocide said:

Would you really bitter a 'session IPA' to over 100 IBU?

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I dunno, maybe. I've never bothered measuring IBUs in my beers. It just had a small bittering addition, then 12oz in a hopstand, few more in a dry hop. No idea what the "theoretical" IBUs would be on that

m00ps said:

I dunno, maybe. I've never bothered measuring IBUs in my beers. It just had a small bittering addition, then 12oz in a hopstand, few more in a dry hop. No idea what the "theoretical" IBUs would be on that

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Coulda swore I took notes from an IPA article you wrote for hbt...lol. Moops....not tracking your threoretical Btus? I'd have no choice but to pay the $10 for Beersmith mobile to input my recipes and find out!! Your a man (I assume) of great resolve!

m00ps said:

I dunno, maybe. I've never bothered measuring IBUs in my beers. It just had a small bittering addition, then 12oz in a hopstand, few more in a dry hop. No idea what the "theoretical" IBUs would be on that

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I know your method... I don't think you'd be saying that you're making great IPAs that are 4-6% and over 100 IBU.

Unless that's just your taste.

I mean, if I showed you the grain bill for my IIPA, your canned answer would be to drop the .5# of crystal and add corn sugar, even though it finished at 1.013 and is @ 9.7% with 84% apparent attenuation at this point. I wouldn't want this beer any drier than the sample indicated.

Shows how much there is to be said for personal taste.

yup, sounds like something i'd say.

I just use cane sugar though. I enjoy the cidery taste it gives my beer

m00ps said:

yup, sounds like something i'd say.

I just use cane sugar though. I enjoy the cidery taste it gives my beer

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Oh man, I hate that taste/feel in (most) of my beers with a fiery passion.

It's clicking for me now.

normonster said:

Coulda swore I took notes from an IPA article you wrote for hbt...lol. Moops....not tracking your threoretical Btus? I'd have no choice but to pay the $10 for Beersmith mobile to input my recipes and find out!! Your a man (I assume) of great resolve!

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If you have an android phone you can use an app called Brewr . You put recipes in that and numbers are usually close and its free.

I dunno, I use the techniques of DIPA's (bittering(sometimes none), flameout,whirlpool, dry hopping) for my pale ales and I love them. I don't go crazy shooting for your 120-130 ibu goal though. I more often than not use only base grains in this type of beer now, no crystal at all and generally no sugar as its not need for the 4-6 abv range other than if you want to try to dry out the beer a little. So, I guess I may use a lot of hops but I don't really consider the ibu's.

You should go for it but maybe increment the hop amounts up over a number of brews with the same base and hops, just increase the hop amounts with each successive brewing of it. I think you may have gone a little too far to start and may be throwing good money into the brew pot by starting so high in ibu's. Keep us posted!

CrimsonYeti said:

If you have an android phone you can use an app called Brewr . You put recipes in that and numbers are usually close and its free.

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I use beersmith...I was saying if I were him and had no clue what my theoretical IBUs were Id be buying it...I'm me so I bought it. thank you though.

lolcats said:

I don't think that's true..

Most of the Double IPAs I've had were overly malty (toffeeish) and sweet which make them nearly undrinkable.

I had Nordic Pines from Ithaca beer co yesterday and thought wow what a waste of hops and incredible pine flavor that i can barely notice.

That's the whole difficulty. I'm sure it's possible to make a Double IPA with the grain bill of a standard IPA with enough malt backbone to support the hops (Maybe not 4% but sure it's possible to accomplish at 6%)

That would really let the hops shine.

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The value of a good beer differs so much from person to person. There are so many things in the beers we currently drink that would have been bat-****t crazy to brew ten years ago. It is really easy to see the progression in beers and be able to understand that current styles are far from permanent. Coffee is kinda the same in that respect.
If you are brewing something you like then go for it.

That being said, there is no reason a malt profile in a DIPA should be sweet or toffee-ish. You can create a better malt profile and fix that. I don't think you NEED a low ABV or ISA to make the beer you want. You just need to find a better malt profile to balance it all out with added those sweet flavors (probably crystal overload).

If you really want to do a ISA then go for it. I think most people would agree that you would get better flavors from blasting the latter additions. If you want a super hoppy IPA or DIPA you can get that to within your goals of lowering the sweetness. Just lower, or drop, the sweeter malts -- probably the crystal. Check out the "Not your father's IPA" article . There is some great ideas in there.
Just my 2 cents. Brew on!

I'm in the planning stages of a session IPA/DIPA myself. I believe Founders All-Day IPA is 4.7% ABV and the IBUs are 42. I personally like a little more tooth-enamel-etching characteristic to an IPA than Founders, but that 10x the ABV is a good rule of thumb, maybe take it up to 12X if one was so inclined.