1098 - British Ale vs. 1187 - Ringwood Ale

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Grinder12000

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I have a real real nice Brown Ale that people love. Iin the past I have used British Ale 1098 as the yeast but I noticed I had Ringwood Ale 1187 sitting growing old in my beer frig.

If I used this what would be the differences.

Anyone have enough experience with the two to clue me in?
 
Ringwood does not like closed fermentation vessels like carboys. Time to experiment with open fermentation. :D
 
YEA - for a guy that has had recent struggles with an infection "open fermentation" seems like a stress free operation LOL
 
YEA - for a guy that has had recent struggles with an infection "open fermentation" seems like a stress free operation LOL

Do like the English do - pitch large amounts of healthy, vigorous yeast and brew beers that intended for a quick turn-around like mild and ordinary bitter.

The fermentation vessel geometry is important with this strain - use a bucket instead of a carboy to give more surface area and to approximate the wooden vats. Ringwood doesn't respond well to being contained. :)
 
I've used Ringwood in closed and open vessels. I can attest that it performs better in open vessels, though I disagree that fermenter geometry has any part to play.

Comparatively, Ringwood throws more esters. It is NOT "buttered, butterscotch popcorn" unless you fail to control it. Yes, it does tend to throw diacetyl.

Keep the temperature under control. That's also key. Go too high in temperature and Ringwood goes off the rails.

Fermenting "open" doesn't necessarily mean "with nothing between the krauesen and the roof". Many breweries using "open" fermentation cover their fermenters. I most often use a square of Plexiglas sufficiently large to cover the mouth of the bucket (one of the breweries for which I used to make wort had sheets large enough to cover 12bbl tanks!). Failing that, resting the undrilled bucket lid loosely on the pail will suffice to keep solid matter from falling in.

(Jason, I think Ringwood doesn't do well with closed fermenters not because of fermenter geometry but because of top pressure.)

Ringwood just requires management; you have to stay on top of it, or it'll do something surprising. It requires you to be a better brewer! ;)

Bob
 
Forgive me of any apparent stupidity, but how is a square of plexiglass or undrilled bucket lid an open system? No airlock or blowoff to allow CO2 to exit, unless the cover is removed from time to time or is slightly ajar? Just trying to visualize this, thanks for the help NQ3X. Ringwood is competing with Wyeast 1968 for the next series of brews.
 
A quick Google-fu on open non-soured fermentation.

Open Fermentation

(Jason, I think Ringwood doesn't do well with closed fermenters not because of fermenter geometry but because of top pressure.)

Excellent point, Bob! I suppose my use of fermenter geometry was really looking at the reducing space about the krausen line in a carboy, which would result in greater pressure on the yeast. Correct?
 
Forgive me of any apparent stupidity, but how is a square of plexiglass or undrilled bucket lid an open system? No airlock or blowoff to allow CO2 to exit, unless the cover is removed from time to time or is slightly ajar? Just trying to visualize this, thanks for the help NQ3X. Ringwood is competing with Wyeast 1968 for the next series of brews.

No stupidity at all. The positive pressure of the emitted CO2 will allow it to escape the vessel; no need to leave anything ajar. CO2 will exit. When the beer stops rapidly devolving CO2, the lid just drops into place. Positive pressure keeps nasties out.

In true open fermentation, the only thing protecting your beer is the krauesen. It requires a clean fermentation room and a lot of minute attention to pull that off, because once the krauesen settles, the risk of contamination increases exponentially. Commercial breweries can use true open fermenters - they've got someone watching the ferment all day, every day. As soon as the krauesen falls (or is skimmed), the green beer is racked. Homebrewers generally lack the luxury to watch the ferment that closely.

Putting a clean, sanitized sheet of clear Plexiglas over the mouth of your bucket not only keeps stuff from falling in, it allows you to visually inspect the ferment.

I suppose my use of fermenter geometry was really looking at the reducing space about the krausen line in a carboy, which would result in greater pressure on the yeast. Correct?

Not really - I think it has more to do with pressure in atmospheres. A closed system will not devolve CO2 as freely as open. I don't know the bio-science underlying the phenomenon, but I experienced a marked difference in Ringwood's performance between open fermenters and unitanks.

There was a beer we brewed in 10bbl batches, knocking out into the 12bbl open fermenters referenced above. After full attenuation was reached - usually about four days - the tanks were crashed from 72 to 35F over three days. Then the beer was racked to a 25bbl horizontal lagering tank, dry-hopped, and allowed to rest for another week before filtering and packaging.

We developed the recipe for a 15bbl batch, hoping to improve efficency and lower man-hours by casting into a unitank. Trouble was, Ringwood simply refused to properly attenuate in the unitank. It would petulantly refuse to drop that final 1-2P. The real trouble was, because we weren't pasteurizing (and even 1-micron filtration doesn't result in sterile beer), the bottles were undergoing an uncontrolled secondary ferment and overcarbonating (sometimes even generating grenades).

It's weird. The only variable we couldn't control through technique was the liquid pressure and gas pressure in the headspace. Now, that gas pressure wasn't much - it's not as though we were spunding; we were essentially using a homebrew blowoff tube writ large - but the constricted blowoff of the conical ferment compared to the gentle devolution of gas in the open tank seemed the obvious culprit.

There. Now you know one of my dirty secrets: Pro brewer inadvertently makes bottle-bombs! :D

Bob
 
Bob,

I took your advice on procedure and decided to do a side-by-side comparison of open versus closed fermentation on supposedly what is Samuel Smith's strain from White Labs, WLP037 Yorkshire Square Ale. On the previous batch with an oatmeal stout, I found out later in the bottle that I did not attenuate enough and got overcarbonated beer. Not bombs, yet, but slow 'gushers'. Everything about the beer is fine so it's not an infection (I hope). So I thought an open fermentation would be a nice experiment. However, my grist was now that of an ordinary bitter. Pretty simple and low gravity.

Both open and closed fermentations went from 1.035 to 1.008 for 77% attenuation in 7 days time, when I checked and bottled. I only fermented 3 qts in each fermenter (1-2 gallon "open" bucket and airlocked glass jug) so maybe it is the scale as well besides the grist that helped me overcome the attenuation, mash temperature the same. The difference between the two was a slight indication of diacetyl in the open fermenter, which I had closed tight just short of day 3 once krausen started to fall. I think I prefer that sample over the closed fermenter's. It's tough to say if this means anything because it is only one experiment.
 
Admittedly it was a rough even-split, so there probably could be a difference in pitch rate. Nothing like 2x in one over the other, I hope. Again, the diacetyl was only slightly noticeable to me.

I wonder if I racked/bottled it sooner than 7 days that I would have caught a bigger difference. Here at 1 week primary 1 week bottle-conditioning, I'm tempted to crack a bottle already.
 
Update, a week in the bottle has eliminated the slight difference between fermentations and both are pretty much the same beer. Perhaps not surprising. If I return to this, I might invoke a bit more aeration in the open fermenter to push the system a bit to see what that imparts.
 
I know this is an old thread......

Ringwood Ale is my favorite ale yeast for session ales (like my Centennial Pale Ale and Recession Ale). Now, this is really the only English ale yeast I have used, but I love it. The reason I switched to it was because then american ale yeasts (Chico) were too clean for a session pale ale IMO.

I don't think I have ever had a diacetyl problem with the yeast, but it can be a concern because of the high flocculation.

Ringwood FTW
 
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