First AG batch, could use some suggestions

Well, with roughly 10 partial mash batches under my belt, I figure it's about time to try my hand at AG. However, I do have some questions regarding the equipment and the recipe before I begin.

Equipment:
I am planing on using a 10 gallon drink cooler for the MLT, mostly because I really enjoy the higher gravity brews, but I'd like the option to do 10 gallon batches of smaller gravity beers as well. My question is whether I should go with a false bottom, CPVC manifold, or mesh tubing. I don't have a problem paying the extra money for a false bottom, but only if it is superior to the other methods. CPVC seems to be better than the mesh tubes, so if it were between the two of those, I think I would build the CPVC manifold.



Recipe:
Imperial IPA

13lbs Pale Malt (2-Row)
2.5lbs Crystal Malt - 40L
2oz Warrior Hops - 60min Boil Time
1oz Cascade Hops - 15min Boil Time
1oz Cascade Hops - 5min Boil Time
2oz Amarillo Hops - Dry Hop
Yeast - California Ale (White Labs - WLP001)

Est. OG - 1.084, Est. FG - 1.018

I'll mash with 5 gallons of water at 155* and batch sparge with 3.5 gallons at 170*. I may replace the Cascade with more Amarillo, as that's one of my favorite hops. Thoughts on this recipe?

Should I try a lower gravity beer for my first batch, or will I be ok with this? I figure if I shoot for a higher gravity, it ought to offset at least some of the efficiency issues I would expect to have in the beginning, right?

Go with whatever you want to use for a filter in the mash tun, all of them work as long as you do a good job recirculating the wort until it runs clear, then start collecting.

Having used a perforated SS bottom, with limited success, I suggest building yourself a copper manifold. My 10gal mash tun has not had any stuck sparges since installing it. I used 1/2" copper pipe that i slit using my band saw. Make sure you recirculate and collect slowly so as to not compress the grain bed and get a stuck sparge. A quick google image search will yield several iterations of copper manifolds.

I'm also just getting into AG brewing, but that seems like an awful lot of Crystal Malt to me.

BigBadMikey said:

Having used a perforated SS bottom, with limited success, I suggest building yourself a copper manifold. My 10gal mash tun has not had any stuck sparges since installing it. I used 1/2" copper pipe that i slit using my band saw. Make sure you recirculate and collect slowly so as to not compress the grain bed and get a stuck sparge. A quick google image search will yield several iterations of copper manifolds.

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That seems to be what I'm finding with the SS bottoms. I'll probably end up going with the CPVC unless someone else chimes in with something really compelling.

amartinez said:

I'm also just getting into AG brewing, but that seems like an awful lot of Crystal Malt to me.

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Two and a half pounds seems like a lot? It's only 16% of the entire recipe, and it's really there for the color. You might be right, though. This is one of the partial mash recipes that I've done a number of times, and used BeerSmith to convert it, so it's not really following anything in particular.

TheZymurgist said:

That seems to be what I'm finding with the SS bottoms. I'll probably end up going with the CPVC unless someone else chimes in with something really compelling.

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I use the CPVC manifold in a 48qt rectangular cooler and I couldn't be happier.

A lot of people complain about stuck sparges with the use of wheat and rye, but I have done 10 or so brews with half rye or half wheat and have not have a problem.

You can also build one for less than $10 so that is a plus. Go with CPVC.

Go with the mesh tubing for now. I've done 63 batches (most 10g) with either bazooka screen (SS mesh tube) or the SS sleeve off a water supply line. Nary a problem.

That said, I have a Jaybird false bottom on the way right now.

I built a slotted copper manifold, never a single problem. Huge improvement over the "Zapap" double bucket I started out with!

I've used them all to make great beer. That being said...my best efficiency, ease of use, and consistency comes from a 30 year old Coleman 48 qt. rectangular cooler with a mesh hose.

Hmm, it seems I've opened up a can of worms.

How about we stick to the recipe. Any suggestions there? What if I did 15lbs of 2-Row and 1lb of Crystal 120L? Would that be better, worse, the same?

That sounds better for my taste...should be a great beer. Make a decent starter and watch your temps. I like your hop schedule. I brewed a 6 gal IIPA 2 weeks ago with 7 lbs pale malt, 7 pounds Maris Otter, 1 lb Munich #9, and Columbus, Centennial...then dry hopped Centennial, Cascade, Simcoe and Amarillo. Tasted great today. Usually just use Chinnok in my IIPA's but sometimes prefer the complexity of varied hops.

I like to add a little bit of light wheat malt to my IIPA. My grain bill was very similar to your first iteration, 13.75# 2row, 1# crystal 20 and .5# wheat to help out with head retention. I also add 1.5# dextrose to help the attenuation get all the way down to make it more drinkable. With all that crystal you're planning on using you might not get the attenuation you look for in this style. One thing you can do is keep your mash temp low (I do mine at 149 for 90 min) to keep your unfermentables to a minimum

Another suggestion for your brew day is to shoot a little high for your post-boil volume, with all the hops in an IIPA, you'll be losing significant volume to your trub

i use a mesh tube with no problems, even with an all wheat malt SMaSH i did. that beings said, i think the copper manifold looks cooler, so if i had my choice i'd go with that. they all work well.

I agree with everyone who uses a mesh tub. I have been using one for years with a 10 gal drink cooler and the only time I have efficiency problems is when I mess up the mash temps. I have only had a stuck sparge once but the grain bill was 60% wheat and I forgot the rice hulls. From the reading that I have done the mesh tube at best can give you a 90% efficiency while all if the other types can only improve upon that depending on how you build them. Yes, the copper manifolds are cool, but the false bottoms will give the best efficiency. IMO, all are good options so just pick one and get brewing . I also second the suggestion to mash longer since you are making a bigger beer, and just bee patient and drink lots of beer in the process. Have fun and keep us up to date on how it goes!

TheZymurgist said:

That seems to be what I'm finding with the SS bottoms. I'll probably end up going with the CPVC unless someone else chimes in with something really compelling.

Click to expand...

Listen to the sparging episode of Brewstrong. It is pretty clear to me that Palmer and Jamil's opinion is that a stainless steel false bottom is the best piece of equipment for a uniform rinsing of your grainbed, especially in a round cooler. By design, it does not require wort to flow sideways through the grain, which is the biggest detractor of a manifold or braid. Its only negative is the price tag (but for some, that can be a big negative). The other caveat of the false bottom is that you need to have a way of restricting flow rate from the tun (a ball valve). Due to the large surface area the false bottom affords, you can create a lot of pressure through the MLT if you drain too fast, potentially compacting grain bed and stopping the flow. This has not happened on my system, but I can see how it would be possible.

Don't get me wrong, I think a CPVC or copper manifold is a great solution in an oddly shaped cooler, but since you have a round cooler, really evaluate the FB option. And for $1.50, a braid is a real bargain, but it becomes a solution in search of problems. It will eventually get crushed, twisted, or compressed, and when that batch comes, you will have a miserable brew day.

I switched to a SS false bottom about 6 batches ago, and I do not know why I didn't do it sooner. Too many people get hung up on the "filtering" benefits of a braid, but that concept is way off base. Whatever medium you use, its job is to seperate grain and wort, not filter the wort. The grain bed is its own filter, which is why we recirculate. If you are struggling to get clear wort with your false bottom, then you are either over crushing the grain, have an equipment design problem, or you are not recirculating enough. I use a pump, and slowly recirculate for 10 minutes after infusing my mash-out. My goals here are to homogenize the temperature of the grain bed, set my filter medium, and clear my run-off. I'd say that after 4 minutes (and maybe a gallon of liquid), the wort is crystal clear.

Again, I do not know if this qualifies as "compelling", but IME, the false bottom has been second to none.

....and yes, that looks like a lot of C40 for a 5 gallon batch. Keep 40L as your choice, just cut it in half, and make up the gravity difference with 2-row. Or, if you really want a lot of body, you could use 1.25 lb of 40L, and 1.25 lb of carapils or C10, but I just think 2.5 lbs of 40L will leave your IPA too sweet. Also, I would avoid the 120L- too much of a burnt raisin flavor for this recipe; typically the lighter crystal malts are more appropriate for American Style IPA's.

Joe

Thanks for the responses everyone, this has been a huge help!

jfowler1 said:

Listen to the sparging episode of Brewstrong. It is pretty clear to me that Palmer and Jamil's opinion is that a stainless steel false bottom is the best piece of equipment for a uniform rinsing of your grainbed, especially in a round cooler. By design, it does not require wort to flow sideways through the grain, which is the biggest detractor of a manifold or braid. Its only negative is the price tag (but for some, that can be a big negative). The other caveat of the false bottom is that you need to have a way of restricting flow rate from the tun (a ball valve). Due to the large surface area the false bottom affords, you can create a lot of pressure through the MLT if you drain too fast, potentially compacting grain bed and stopping the flow. This has not happened on my system, but I can see how it would be possible.

Don't get me wrong, I think a CPVC or copper manifold is a great solution in an oddly shaped cooler, but since you have a round cooler, really evaluate the FB option. And for $1.50, a braid is a real bargain, but it becomes a solution in search of problems. It will eventually get crushed, twisted, or compressed, and when that batch comes, you will have a miserable brew day.

I switched to a SS false bottom about 6 batches ago, and I do not know why I didn't do it sooner. Too many people get hung up on the "filtering" benefits of a braid, but that concept is way off base. Whatever medium you use, its job is to seperate grain and wort, not filter the wort. The grain bed is its own filter, which is why we recirculate. If you are struggling to get clear wort with your false bottom, then you are either over crushing the grain, have an equipment design problem, or you are not recirculating enough. I use a pump, and slowly recirculate for 10 minutes after infusing my mash-out. My goals here are to homogenize the temperature of the grain bed, set my filter medium, and clear my run-off. I'd say that after 4 minutes (and maybe a gallon of liquid), the wort is crystal clear.

Again, I do not know if this qualifies as "compelling", but IME, the false bottom has been second to none.

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Joe, I'd say that's fairly compelling. I just downloaded the Sparging podcast, and will listen to that tonight. I also re-read through How to Brew last night, and that really helped out a ton, too. I think a good slow lauter and proper recirculation would help minimize the chance of a stuck sparge. Plus, the false bottom would give me the option to try fly sparging in the future, if I ever wanted to do so.

jfowler1 said:

....and yes, that looks like a lot of C40 for a 5 gallon batch. Keep 40L as your choice, just cut it in half, and make up the gravity difference with 2-row. Or, if you really want a lot of body, you could use 1.25 lb of 40L, and 1.25 lb of carapils or C10, but I just think 2.5 lbs of 40L will leave your IPA too sweet. Also, I would avoid the 120L- too much of a burnt raisin flavor for this recipe; typically the lighter crystal malts are more appropriate for American Style IPA's.

Joe

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I think I'll take your advice and just cut the 40L in half. Originally I was chasing the "correct" color (per Beer Smith) without knowing what effect the crystal malts would have on the actual flavor.

Maybe converting an extract recipe to AG for my first batch isn't the best idea. I think I need a better understanding of different malts before I start formulating recipes.