Woke up this morning to pitch my yeast for an Irish Red I brewed Friday afternoon (let chill overnight and wasn't home to pitch yesterday) and found some airlock activity so I was a little intrigued. Opened it up to find a layer of krausen. Pulled a sample and it doesn't taste sour (yet). Looks like it lost 2 gravity points though. Thoughts?
I do use a lot of diastaticus with my other strains so there is a chance it's present, although the previous batch attenuated normally and didn't have diastaticus. I pitched a fresh pack of S04 just before posting on here to try to get a foothold like you mentioned.That's a lot of krausen over one night! Possibly a wild yeast?
I'd pitch that yeast ASAP, hoping for it to get a stronger foothold before the wild yeast does.
Are you pitching a fresh pack or starter? An active vitality starter is best as it will take off faster, esential in this case, but will take about 4-6 hours to grow.
The other route is reboiling the wort (it's now 'beer' actually), rechill and pitch your intended yeast starter. That will eliminate whatever is trying to take over your beer right now.
Welcome to HBT!My first post!
That sure sounds like an infection, the hazy pellicle and the sour scent. Lacto is possible, could be something else.On day six, prepared to turn the flask a few times to swirl and mix up the content ones more, I found a 1 mm thick layer of white substance growing on the surface. It had clear strands in its structure. When I opened the flask, to release any pressure, there was a distinctively sour smell coming off. Not bad, not rotten (sulfur), just distinctively milky sour.
If there's any kind of film other than Saccharomyces krausen, then yeah, it's probably "contaminated".layer of white substance growing on the surface
I don't see you mentioning how you sanitized the bottle lips. Unless well cleaned and sanitized, simply popping the lid can cause microorganisms hanging around that area to get inside, and ruin your project.
When propagating yeast from dregs, a 20-50 ml of 1.020 first step starter is more typical. Once they're going you may combine and step up to 500ml or 1 liter at 1.040. Since they grew they must have been vital enough and propagated well.
We'd like to see that picture, if you can get it possibly to work.
Beyond sterilizing the bottle mouth (use flame!), I'd also suggest getting super fresh bottles, and adding hops to the starter wort.
FYI: Omega is selling a strain from Stranda (the only one that grew) as Hothead (OYL-057).
I'm not sure whether Haandbryggeriet is using a mixed culture or not. ... If they are, it's possible there may be bacteria present in the bottles.
Cheers
Thanks for the image fix. Beautiful!Image fixed!
I sprayed the beer bottles with Star San before opening, but not after. I'll be sure to do that the next time, maybe flame it as well.
Thanks for the advice, I will definitely take care to sanitize the beer bottles better the next time, and possibly add some hops to the starter. The lab bottles I use for growing have a plastic lip, I guess to make a good seal with the cap, so I won't be able to flame them. Do you think boiling will be sufficient?
I wouldn't. There may be enteric bacteria since there's no alcohol.Just give it a good taste test first, it won't harm you.
He said he had yeast growth already before the pellicle developed. The pH should have dropped due to that as well as some creation of alcohol. Enteric bacteria don't give good smelling or tasting beer, a smell test may be enough to be off putting.I wouldn't. There may be enteric bacteria since there's no alcohol.
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Wild_Yeast_Isolation#Safety
That's a thick pellicle, that bug is having a field day. If you're into sours, you may be able to use that starter for those. Just give it a good taste test first, it won't harm you.
Now yeast starters need access to oxygen in order to grow, do you open the lid between shaking? Do you have a (home-built) stir plate or orbital shaker?
In my experience, pbw + boiling + star san along with good aseptic technique is enough to keep out contaminants.
I generally also do a control when I'm attempting to propagate dregs and it doesn't grow anything (at least so far).
Good luck
What kind of control? I'm curious.I generally also do a control when I'm attempting to propagate dregs and it doesn't grow anything (at least so far).
He said he had yeast growth already before the pellicle developed. The pH should have dropped due to that as well as some creation of alcohol. Enteric bacteria don't give good smelling or tasting beer, a smell test may be enough to be off putting.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Can you trace back where the infection may have incurred other than the crimp cap/lip area? Although probably most suspicious, thinking about it, I would have expected the infection to show up sooner if that was the case, unless it was really small.Yeah, there was plenty growth before. Smelt it again just now, before I chucked it out, and it smelt a lot like sour beers that I've had. Less milky than yesterday maybe, more like sour beer. Not unpleasant in any way. Not gonna taste it anyway, I probably need to have tasted something that was supposed to smell and look like that, before I try something where it's not wanted nor expected
Can you trace back where the infection may have incurred other than the crimp cap/lip area?
Are you going to try it again with some revised techniques and methods?
Yeast starters need O2 to propagate, an aerobic environment encourages them to keep budding instead of fermenting. There's always some of both going on, but we want to stimulate growth here. Read up on starters and stir plates. 1.015-1.020 starter wort for the first step. Add some nutrients too. DAP, Urea, Epsom Salt, and ZnSO4 or ZnCl2, if you have it. You only need a tiny, tiny amount for 200 ml. Add to the wort when you're boiling it.
Another method to propagate yeast is 'shaken-not-stirred' yeast starters. Look it up. It requires vigorous shaking, creating lots of foam. Your half liter (?) bottles may be ideal for propagating the small amounts harvested from dregs to more sizeable amounts.
If the yeast to be harvested is old or really stressed, her cell walls are weak, osmosis can't be regulated and relatively high gravity wort will kill her. That's why lower gravity wort is recommended, as low as 1.010. She also needs oxygen (air is fine) to build up her sterol levels so she can start budding again. After that initial round she's stronger and you can use 1.020 wort before going to 1.037-1.040.Thanks a lot, great advice! I already have some nutrients from Wyeast, that I've used in the starter worts and in the cider I've got going. I've probably used too much spray malt for the starters I've made, if 1.015-1.025 is the target OG, so I will reduce it to about 75 g per liter, or 15 g for 200 ml in the 0.5 L bottles. Will read up on the methods you've described.
The original narrative wasn't really convincing to me... Basically any microbe growing would make it look cloudy. There was no mention of bubbling or krausen and the pellicle photo looks rather flat, indicating lack of carbonation (i.e. yeast activity).He said he had yeast growth already before the pellicle developed. The pH should have dropped due to that as well as some creation of alcohol.
That's a good point and you're probably right, but it only takes a little of certain pathogenic bacteria to make you sick. Off-aromas may still be below detection threshold.Enteric bacteria don't give good smelling or tasting beer, a smell test may be enough to be off putting.
When I make starter wort for dregs, a portion of it goes into another jar for at least a week to see whether anything grows.What kind of control? I'm curious.
Welcome to the hobby / obsession / madness!Well first time poster. Just got a brewing kit from the girlfriend and super stoked about this hobby. Haven't been this excited about something outside work in a long time. So here is a pic of my current brew. Its the IPA that comes with the Northern Brewing Deluxe Kit. We started it a week ago and this growth on the mouth/neck of the carboy just showed up a day ago. Just want to make sure we aren't wasting our time with this one as the beer itself still looks fine. Appreciate any advice/answer.View attachment 614615 View attachment 614616
Almost definitely oil from the cacao.this is also the first time I've used cacao nibs and wonder if the oil from them is just floating on the surface.
Looks fine!final image before bottling
Is there a problem?
Probably from the blueberries themselves.Must have picked something up when I transferred onto the frozen blueberries.
Those are large yeast rafts floating there! Maybe from the dry hopping, which may have caused some outgassing, pushing the yeast cake up.What do you guys think of this? It's a repitch on top of a slurry of witelabs German lager yeast. Ignore the green stuff, it's a small dry hopp charge. Tastes fine so I'm guessing slurry raised to the top?
Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Should I swirl it all upp you think?Those are large yeast rafts floating there! Maybe from the dry hopping, which may have caused some outgassing, pushing the yeast cake up.
The foam underneath looks a little weird being so white and soap bubble-like. Probably just the way that yeast and her krausen is.
Yeah, it looks like you've got red and green peppers in there.
I think dry hopping can always benefit from some gentle agitation/swirling/stirring. But the trade off is if you need to lift the fermenter lid to do so, air will fill the headspace that was CO2-rich before. Flush the headspace with CO2 when you're done. You may also increase risk of infections when lifting the lid, so sanitize well, especially the rim area.Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Should I swirl it all upp you think?
Just yeast, no worries.Centennial blond that has been fermenting for 1 week, glass carboy, used starsan on everything religiously . US-05 yeast .
Noticed a few white spots, is this an infection or yeast rafts?
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