Dialing in the brew haus efficiency. Volume question:

As I work toward understanding my brewhaus efficiency (i.e. how well my sh*t works) I have run into an issue when figuring my needed water volumes.
Using the Water Needed worksheet in Pro Mash, when I have a 6.5 gallon recipe written out so that my grainbill is correct for my estimated efficiency at a volume of 6.5 gallons, am I wanting to have 6.5 gallons of wort in the kettle after flame out, or is that what I'm shooting have in the fermenter after transfer and cooling and such?
Seems that wort lost in the kettle due to deadspace or trub absorbtion is still PART of the 6.5 gallon formula when shooting for an O.G. of say, 1.050. Then you'll end up with, if trub loss equaled .5 gallons, about 6 gallons of hot wort, and then 5.75 or so gallons of fermentable wort. Am I making sense?

So I've got a recipe worked out at 6.5 gallons, OG or 1.050 at my 72% brewhaus efficiency. I know I lose .25 gallons of wort in the Mashtun and .5 gallons of wort in the kettle. Is it as easy, then, as going back to my recipe in Pro Mash (or whichever program) and locking my grainbill to my volume and raising the volume by the .75 gallons I know I'll be losing to equipment?

If so then I know why my last brew seesion yeilded a lower OG than I had designed it for!

Anyone?

Unfortunately the terminology isn't always used consistently. There are many types of efficiency, and many ways to calculate them. This article explains it pretty well-

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Understanding_Efficiency

Well, perhaps I should simplify the question:

If I am using a recipe I find on HBT and the recipe is for 5.5 gallons, when I am plugging the specifics into Pro Mash, am I using 5.5 gallons as my volume of wort at:
1)Flame out
2)Chilled and in the fermenter

So pre or post chill, and then how does one account for any lost wort in the kettle? I am assuming the ideal is to end up with 5.5 (in this case) gallons in the fermenter. If I know that I lose .5 gallons to trub and such in the kettle, should I formulate for a 6 gallon batch in order to reach my 5.5 gallon final volume? I'd do this in Pro Mash by getting my recipe entered at 5.5 gallons, locking the grainbill to the volume and bumping it up to 6.

Make sense?

I think I've answered my own question, and the answer is YES, post-chill fermenter volume for the intended O.G.

Think about it in terms points. How much of the potential points you get out of he grain and into your kettle is your extraction efficiency and the points that make it into your fermentor is your brewhouse efficiency. Poor conversion or extraction will effect the first and the second. Hop absorption, dead space in the kettle and wort left in a CFC will contribute to lowered brewhouse efficiency.

My understanding is that when people post recipes, they are talking about extraction efficiency.

Did that answer your question?

So if he wants 5.5 in the fermenter and has a .5 gal of trub in the kettle that he doesn't want to move, should that count as 5.5 or 6 gallons as FINAL ?
(I wonder the same thing )

ProMash has a "Water Needed" calculator that will account for losses and you can save it as the default for your system. The recipe batch sizes are the final wort yield post boil (or in the fermenter). The "Recipe Formulation" window will have a radio button labeled "Pre-Boil Calculator". Push that button and a widow will open showing you your pre-boil/post boil information. ProMash has a good built-in tutorial that will walk you through all of this stuff. It's worth taking the time to go through it.

joeybeer said:

So if he wants 5.5 in the fermenter and has a .5 gal of trub in the kettle that he doesn't want to move, should that count as 5.5 or 6 gallons as FINAL ?
(I wonder the same thing )

Click to expand...

Start at the end and work your way backwards.

Example: 5.5 into fermenter + .5 hops/trub loss + 1 evap + shrinkage (I was in the pool!) = preboil volume

Catt22 said:

ProMash has a "Water Needed" calculator that will account for losses and you can save it as the default for your system. The recipe batch sizes are the final wort yield post boil (or in the fermenter). The "Recipe Formulation" window will have a radio button labeled "Pre-Boil Calculator". Push that button and a widow will open showing you your pre-boil/post boil information. ProMash has a good built-in tutorial that will walk you through all of this stuff. It's worth taking the time to go through it.

Click to expand...

Cool. Yes I've played with the pre boil calc. and have the formulas for evap. and trub loss and all that factored in as a routine part of my brewing. I think you've all answered the question in a round about way! Bottom line: The recipe volume given is post-boil, POST-CHILL final volume. Any changes needed to compensate for wort losses in the brewhaus (brewhaus efficiency, or inefficiency in this case) will be made with these things in mind.

Thanks all