You have done everything morally that you could do. At this point not only can you consider that they are yours, but you can do so feeling good that you did it in the right way.
Keggle Ethics Question
- Thread starter melamst
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You have done everything morally that you could do. At this point not only can you consider that they are yours, but you can do so feeling good that you did it in the right way.
Jota21
Well-Known Member
I dont understand the whole controversy. Most people aren't even aware that the kegs cost the breweries more than $30. If the breweries were concerned about having the kegs returned instead of losing the $30, i would think they would make you sign something that states you're 'renting' the keg, or just make the deposit $100. Let's be honest, if you have a draft beer set-up and you wont miss $30 being tied up, is $100 really going to make/break your month? Sure it sucks, but you know you'll get it back...
My favorite local microbrewery charges a $100 deposit, and it has never detered me from getting a keg of their beer, but it does assure them that they're gonna get it back!
I've had an empty Miller keg in my garage for about 8 months just because i haven't gotten around to returning it... no real incentive...
As far as I'm concerned, when you pay for the beer, the keg becomes yours... The brewery might pay more than $30 for them, but by only charging a $30 deposit, and making no effort to recover them (or even inform buyers that it's the 'ethical' thing to do), they're essentially valuing the kegs at $30...
They're big companies with a lot of people who get paid big bucks to figure these things out... if they're ok with letting someone keep a keg for $30, so am I.
My favorite local microbrewery charges a $100 deposit, and it has never detered me from getting a keg of their beer, but it does assure them that they're gonna get it back!
I've had an empty Miller keg in my garage for about 8 months just because i haven't gotten around to returning it... no real incentive...
As far as I'm concerned, when you pay for the beer, the keg becomes yours... The brewery might pay more than $30 for them, but by only charging a $30 deposit, and making no effort to recover them (or even inform buyers that it's the 'ethical' thing to do), they're essentially valuing the kegs at $30...
They're big companies with a lot of people who get paid big bucks to figure these things out... if they're ok with letting someone keep a keg for $30, so am I.
Something like this is more of a law enforcement issue in regards to underage drinking and disorderly parties. This has nothing to do with returning the keg to the brewery, the state has no interest in that.
This is so that when the cops come to a party and find 15 kids under 21 who are passed out beside a keg, they can find out who purchased that keg and charge them with the appropriate violations.
rico567
Well-Known Member
This has been an interesting thread, insofar as it shifts among legality, morality, and sheer opinion. The subject makes it so, since the keg is filled by the brewer, but then passes through distributor and retailer before ending up with the deposit-paying consumer.
On the one hand, I don't think the brewery would stamp their name / trademark into the metal and use serial numbers if they didn't claim the keg as theirs.
On the other hand, the law isn't all that murky- I think the NY law cited is pretty typical of what would be the relevant statute if push ever came to shove.
At yet a third hand (which I'm not sure I can do, but....), I think I read somewhere that the beer industry has a pretty definite figure for keg "shrinkage," and since I don't notice a lot of breweries going out of business, I think the loss of kegs is another business expense, gets written off at tax time just like anything else.
Morally, it's not correct to keep something unless it's given by the owner or the owner is compensated by mutual agreement. This would obviously be modified by circumstances, like kegs sitting around with 20 year old beer in them, or floating down rivers. It's less clear where these things belong in "keg(gle) ethics."
On the one hand, I don't think the brewery would stamp their name / trademark into the metal and use serial numbers if they didn't claim the keg as theirs.
On the other hand, the law isn't all that murky- I think the NY law cited is pretty typical of what would be the relevant statute if push ever came to shove.
At yet a third hand (which I'm not sure I can do, but....), I think I read somewhere that the beer industry has a pretty definite figure for keg "shrinkage," and since I don't notice a lot of breweries going out of business, I think the loss of kegs is another business expense, gets written off at tax time just like anything else.
Morally, it's not correct to keep something unless it's given by the owner or the owner is compensated by mutual agreement. This would obviously be modified by circumstances, like kegs sitting around with 20 year old beer in them, or floating down rivers. It's less clear where these things belong in "keg(gle) ethics."
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Good point. This is how I perceive the issue as well. Its the business' risk by lowering the price of the deposit. They keep track of these costs, and if there are too many kegs being stolen/lost to make a dent on their profits, they will increase the price of the deposit and/or beer.
They take the hit because I'm sure they make a hell of alot more money per oz of beer when they serve in kegs as opposed to bottles.
I don't think a lot of you guys understand where keg registration derives from. This is not done by the breweries or for the breweries. It is done so that law enforcement has the ability to track down who purchased a keg that ends up in the hands of the wrong people, ie teenagers for the most part.
Are you referring to the laws I quoted? I know Sawdustguy quoted something he must have found on the internet which is not language from the NY State Penal Law. Everything I quoted comes right from the NYS Penal Law and was posted here to prove that breweries have no legal connection to the kegs that end up in a consumer's possession. I didn't search for this info on the internet; its part of my job.
Are you referring to the laws I quoted? I know Sawdustguy quoted something he must have found on the internet which is not language from the NY State Penal Law. Everything I quoted comes right from the NYS Penal Law and was posted here to prove that breweries have no legal connection to the kegs that end up in a consumer's possession. I didn't search for this info on the internet; its part of my job.
I just learned that here in Vermont the deposit price is set by the state, not by the brewery or distributor. In fact, until quite recently, the deposit price was only $10 (the law dated to the 1930's); now it's a whopping $30.
A brewery in this state may not charge more by law, no matter how much they'd like to.
A brewery in this state may not charge more by law, no matter how much they'd like to.
Source: Bill Cherry, Switchback Brewery
I'd also like to point out that a moral code is quite distinct from a legal code.
I JUST FOUND OUT SOMETHING CRAZYWho here has heard of MicroStar !?! http://www.microstarkegs.com/
Check it out - THEY own most of the larger microbrewery kegs in this country, NOT the brewery!
(Switchback is an exception - it's really tiny)
------------------------------------Source: Whoever answered the phone at Magic Hat just now!
So in keeping a microbrew keg, you could be sticking it to a mega middle-man.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Who here has heard of MicroStar !?! http://www.microstarkegs.com/
Check it out - THEY own most of the larger microbrewery kegs in this country, NOT the brewery!
(Switchback is an exception - it's really tiny)
------------------------------------Source: Whoever answered the phone at Magic Hat just now!
So in keeping a microbrew keg, you could be sticking it to a mega middle-man.
Hmm I have always seen the microstar stickers/stamps, but never really though much of it.
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