carbonation issues

So I've brewed 5 BIAB 5 gallon batches since starting homebrewing. 4/5 batches have failed to carbonate after batch priming with corn sugar and letting the bottles sit for 2 weeks, up to over a month. I use a carbonation calculator online to see how much sugar to add to the 5 gallons, so I'm pretty sure the sugar amt isn't my issue. 2 of the 4 failed batches were cold crashed and the other two were not, so it's not likely to be crashing at too low of a temp...Basically after 4 fails, I'm starting to become frustrated with brewing and am looking for any help you can offer!

I think everyone will ask for more information... grains, yeast, OF/FG, volume in bottling bucket and corn sugar ammount used for priming.

Also what type of cap/capper did you use? Could that be the issue?

Assuming you are storing the bottled beers at room temperature there are a few possible causes.

1: Bottles not sealed allowing CO2 to vent and flat beer the result.

2: Very high ABV beers needing a longer time to carbonate or needing additional yeast at bottling.

3: Beers never fermented owing to dead yeast being pitched. No yeast no carbonation.

1: Is easily checked by immersing an upright bottle in water and looking for leaks

2: What are the OG's and Fg's of the beers

3: This is highly unlikely but just including it for completeness. Again OG and FG, signs of fermentation, krausen formation etc, eliminate this nonsese possibility.

My most recent batch started at 1.074 and stopped at 1.041, a sweet stout with lactose. I always take grav readings a few days apart once I suspect fermentation is finished, though I suppose if it weren't finished and I bottled I would be having the opposite issue with bottles.

I will definitely check if caps are leaking with the bubble test, though I doubt the capper is the issue as I've bottled multiple batches of cider with no problems.

I've suspected dead yeast in past brews as fermentation seems to stop early in some. I had an issue with bad temp control and killing enzymes in a couple beers but have since corrected the issue, so it's hard to compare batches..

darkshardx said:

My most recent batch started at 1.074 and stopped at 1.041, e beers but have since corrected the issue, so it's hard to compare batches..

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assuming the readings are correct and not taken with a refractometer that would point to either.

1: Very poor wort quality with lots of unfermentable sugars.

2: Bad yeast handling practices.

3: Both 1 and 2

1 on its own should still allow carbonation in the bottle
2 all bets are off
3 also no bueno

To be honest if the FG figure is a true reading it points to some glaring errors (unknown source) in your process.

1. How long has the primary been fermenting?

2. What kind and how much yeast did you pitch?

3. How much corn sugar did you use?

4. How did you aerate the wort?

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1. Could be that most of your yeast has dropped out of suspension or died from sitting for a prolonged period.

2. Depending on the yeast, you could have under pitched or stressed the yeast possibly.

3. Could be the corn sugar you're using, or the amount is too little. I usually use 4-4.5oz for 5 gal and boil for 5 min.

4. Could be that your yeast didn't get enough oxygen to properly reproduce.

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There are a lot of things that could cause issues with carbonation. The more info you give about the recipe, yeast, time, and amounts, the easier it becomes to find the possible issue though.

I'd have to go along with most of this. Yeast quality/health/handling, Ferment temps. Temps when beers are bottled, how long at that temp. How long in the fridge & what temp in there?

Ok just got home, here is the recipe for my most recent batch OG 1.072 FG 1.040. I measured OG when moving cooled wort to fermentor, cocoa powder and lactose were added to the boil. I'm suspecting yeast abuse at this point...

3gal recipe based off of https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=136707

Mash was within 5 of 154F by submerged thermometer probe
90 min boil

Amount Item
3.75 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
0.75 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (90 min)
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (30 min)
0.30 oz Chocolate Extract (Bottling 5.0 min)
4.00 oz Cocoa Powder (Boil 0.0 min)
0.50 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM)
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-)

bubbled for around 3 days in the high 60's, tested gravity @ 7+9+11 days, stayed at 1.040 for all testings.

My process:

-heat water to strike temp, I use an online water calc for amt (5 gal aluminum pot w/ BIAB bag already in it)
-pour grain in and stir, wait 5 minutes and stir again
-Cover with lid and let sit for 60 mins stirring occasionally
-heat water in other pots to sparge temp, pull bag out and put sterilized grate(cookie cooling rack) over pot, rest bag on rack, pour sparging water over bag of grain
-heat wort to boiling, proceed with hop additions
-cool in sink with cool water around pot (lid on)
-transfer to sterile fermenter w/ sterile racking wand
-pitch yeast (normally I dump the package of dry yeast in and let it hydrate for a while)
-Aerate by stirring wort briskly w/ sterile slotted spoon making sure to pull air down into wort
-close up and move to partially full bathtub (apartment spare bathroom solution to temp control...)

Beers generally taste ok, they're just flat. I feel that fermentation often stops before it should as well. I end up drinking my flat, hard work anyway, but I'd really like to get over this hump and actually make something I'm proud to share...

How are you measuring the FG. Still no answer on that important point. Maybe I missed it. All the other info here is really irrelevant I'm afraid.

How are you sterilizing things.

Mostly home brewers just sanitize with various chemicals. Starsan is popular. No need to sanitize anything (like the metal grate) before the boil.

At 1.04 the beers would be unbearably sweet.

How are you measuring the FG?

I'm going to say something I always say- I HATE those priming sugar calculators. They often give weird amounts of priming sugar, for carbing "to style" and have this weird thing about the beer temperature. They have a stout "to style" as totally flat, and some weizens above explosions in bottles, while most people who buy bottled beer are accustomed to carbonation and not flat beer, nor bottle bombs.

I'll hazard a guess here and say you used a temperature of the cold crashing (which is incorrect to do), and used less than 4-5 ounces of sugar by weight. That is why the beer would be flat. I threw out "priming calculators" and use .75 ounces of corn sugar per finished gallon of beer for lower carbed styles, and 1 ounces of corn sugar per finished gallon for things like lagers and more carbed up beers.

Still, a finished beer should not be at 1.040 so something else is going on as well. I assume it's a refractometer reading (which is always wrong once fermentation starts) and not a true hydrometer FG reading.

I use a hydrometer for grav readings. For priming this 3 gal batch the calculator told me to use 2.06oz corn sugar for the 3 gallons. For sanitizing I use starsan diluted as per instructions on the bottle, spray everything down and let it dry. This particular batch I did not cold crash at all, though others that I have crashed were around 36-40 degrees for a day or two. Also, I have not really tasted the beer that finished at 1.04 as it has been sitting for only 3 weeks. I popped one open, poured it, and tasted only disappointment as it wasn't even bubbly. Poured it out..

darkshardx said:

I use a hydrometer for grav readings. For priming this 3 gal batch the calculator told me to use 2.06oz corn sugar for the 3 gallons. For sanitizing I use starsan diluted as per instructions on the bottle, spray everything down and let it dry. This particular batch I did not cold crash at all, though others that I have crashed were around 36-40 degrees for a day or two. Also, I have not really tasted the beer that finished at 1.04 as it has been sitting for only 3 weeks. I popped one open, poured it, and tasted only disappointment as it wasn't even bubbly. Poured it out..

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Priming sugar for sure. Didn't even consider that possibility earlier as I don't bottle condition my beers so am not too well versed in that area. 2oz for 3 gallons seems low though.

If that 1.04 is a true reading it means there is something drastically wrong with your wort or yeast or both.

How warm are you keeping the bottles during the conditioning phase?

BTW. Don't have to let Starsan dry. It renders surface sanitized when wet. Once it dries, who knows. It's a no rinse sanitizer.

darkshardx said:

-pitch yeast (normally I dump the package of dry yeast in and let it hydrate for a while)


-Aerate by stirring wort briskly w/ sterile slotted spoon making sure to pull air down into wort

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This may be your problem. Some packs like us-05 say pitch directly, but if your yeast has directions to rehydrate -- you should probably follow them. I'm pretty sure danstar usually has rehydration instructions.

You probably are causing some of your yeast to die or get stressed. High gravity wort doesn't allow your yeast to rehydrate easily. It needs to wake up in water before you put them to work.

Also, you might want to aerate a lot more before pitching.

Careful. With a FG of 1.040, If you ever get a beer to carb, you may get more carb than you bargained for. Kaboom! (Splash, drip.) First, keep your yeast healthy and let them finish the fermentation. Then, worry about carbonation. If you have healthy yeast, I think you solve both problems.

What would be some tips for healthy yeast? This is one area I'm not super familiar with..

darkshardx said:

What would be some tips for healthy yeast? This is one area I'm not super familiar with..

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For dry yeast follow the package instructions for pitching. If it says rehydrate -- do it. If you don't, it will stress the yeast trying to rehydrate and some will probably just die off.
If you're making a beer over 1.070 you probably want to pitch two packets for most yeast (like us-05), some types of yeast like Belgian you usually don't want to over pitch. Use brewersfriend's calculator to determine the amount of yeast you need, and compare it to the cells per packet.

For liquid yeast calculate your started size and make an adequate starter -- usually the day before.

Make sure you're not using tap water with chlorine/chloramine. Distilled water works great for rehydrating.
Don't overheat the water for rehydrating the yeast either -- follow the package temps.
Also make sure the yeast temp and wort temp are at most 10*F from each other -- to not shock the yeast.

Make sure your yeast have enough oxygen.
Use and oxygen tank and 0.5 micron oxygen stone for 30 seconds.
Or
Use a aquarium pump for around 2-5 min.
Or
Shake vigorously for 5 min if not using either.

If doing a partial boil, and you're using water to fill the rest of the volume you can pour half the water in, close the cap, and shake it vigorously -- this way you're adding more oxygen into the water -- then pour the rest into your FV.

OP said that the beer with FG 1.040 is a sweet stout with lactose. If something on the order of 1/2lb of lactose per gallon of total water was used, that would account for about 25 of those points. That's a lot of lactose, but at least it would rule out the FG of this beer from part of the troubleshooting.

Thanks! I'll definitely try this next time!

Resonator said:

Make sure your yeast have enough oxygen.
Use and oxygen tank and 0.5 micron oxygen stone for 30 seconds.
Or
Use a aquarium pump for around 2-5 min.
Or
Shake vigorously for 5 min if not using either.

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Or
create a venturi aerator, very easy, very good results.

darkshardx- "Mash was within 5 of 154F by submerged thermometer probe"

Within 5? Get a better thermometer so you can hit a target mash temp. 149 compared to 159...very different beers. 149 will finish dry, 159 very sweet.

darkshardx- "-pitch yeast (normally I dump the package of dry yeast in and let it hydrate for a while)
-Aerate by stirring wort briskly w/ sterile slotted spoon making sure to pull air down into wort "

Aerate BEFORE pitching yeast. Not sure but maybe briskly stirring the dry yeast is killing a lot of it?

Not to high jack, but I'm also somewhat stumped by a recent batch (more chiming in to be empathetic). I did a 5 gal Hank's Hefewiezen extract kit from Midwest. Typically do AG BIAB but equipment was in storage. Anyways, used 02, big starter, temp control, had a huge krausen and clean ferment, hit OG & FG dead on. Ended up with 4.8 gal at bottling, and used the entire 5 oz bag of priming sugar that Midwest supplied (actually anticipated pretty high carbonation). Now, my beer (going on 6 weeks since bottling at 72-76 deg room temps), isn't completely flat, but EXTREMELY under-carbed. This hasn't occurred before, and I'm seriously at a loss. There is for sure no lack of a complete fermentation, and flavor actually tastes great (WLP300 was used). Just ever so slightly carbonated. I'm going to try the submersion test. Wondering if the batch of bottle caps I used were faulty?

BrewinBromanite said:

Not to high jack, but I'm also somewhat stumped by a recent batch (more chiming in to be empathetic). I did a 5 gal Hank's Hefewiezen extract kit from Midwest. Typically do AG BIAB but equipment was in storage. Anyways, used 02, big starter, temp control, had a huge krausen and clean ferment, hit OG & FG dead on. Ended up with 4.8 gal at bottling, and used the entire 5 oz bag of priming sugar that Midwest supplied (actually anticipated pretty high carbonation). Now, my beer (going on 6 weeks since bottling at 72-76 deg room temps), isn't completely flat, but EXTREMELY under-carbed. This hasn't occurred before, and I'm seriously at a loss. There is for sure no lack of a complete fermentation, and flavor actually tastes great (WLP300 was used). Just ever so slightly carbonated. I'm going to try the submersion test. Wondering if the batch of bottle caps I used were faulty?

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Possibly faulty caps. What kind of capper and bottles are you using? Some bottles have a smaller lip and don't allow wing cappers to create enough pressure. I had to get a bench capper for the same reason.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444419073.575329.jpg
Bottle types. One on left doesn't work well with wing capper.

Wow, I never knew that about the lip.

I've been using Cooper's sugar pills - one per bottle. Carb levels varied quite a bit from one bottle to the next. I switched to dextrose for the most recent batch (an APA) and figured too little carb was preferable to too much for the style. I definitely got too little. Tastes a lot like a cask ale - nice taste but just not much in the way of bubbles or lacing.

Next time I will up the dextrose, compare the lips, and try the dip test. It is reassuring to learn that I did not invent this particular problem.

whovous said:

Wow, I never knew that about the lip.

I've been using Cooper's sugar pills - one per bottle. Carb levels varied quite a bit from one bottle to the next. I switched to dextrose for the most recent batch (an APA) and figured too little carb was preferable to too much for the style. I definitely got too little. Tastes a lot like a cask ale - nice taste but just not much in the way of bubbles or lacing.

Next time I will up the dextrose, compare the lips, and try the dip test. It is reassuring to learn that I did not invent this particular problem.

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Coopers carbonation drops aren't fully fermentable. I used those in my first batch and they produced barely any carbonation. Since then, I've been using 4-5 oz of corn sugar with great success.

I've used Cooper's drops in the beginning & they're just sugar, nothing else. 1 drop carbed 12ozr's fine for me? But they do take longer.

They just seemed random to me. Some carbed light and some were almost bottle bombs. Time for me to play with the big kids instead.

Yeah, after my first couple batches, I went to bulk priming. Definitely better.

Resonator said:

Possibly faulty caps. What kind of capper and bottles are you using? Some bottles have a smaller lip and don't allow wing cappers to create enough pressure. I had to get a bench capper for the same reason.
View attachment 308496
Bottle types. One on left doesn't work well with wing capper.

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Mix batch of bottles, but I've used them on probably 3-4 previous batches with no issues. Same procedure as usual (which usually is no problem at all, bulk-priming solution mixed well into racking bucket). Only new variables were a bag of new caps and a new red wing capper from Midwest. Could be the caps, I'm going to try the submersion test to see if there's any leaks. Also, my usual red capper which I've used for a few years was in storage, which is why I ordered one from Midwest when I bought the ingredients. It is a different brand than my old trusty capper. Hmmm. For hitting numbers spot on with a healthy fermentation (was an all extract batch, so not difficult to hit numbers), and coming in slightly under 5 gal at 4.8 gal, 5 oz of priming sugar should have had no problems carbing up.

BrewinBromanite said:

Mix batch of bottles, but I've used them on probably 3-4 previous batches with no issues. Same procedure as usual (which usually is no problem at all, bulk-priming solution mixed well into racking bucket). Only new variables were a bag of new caps and a new red wing capper from Midwest. Could be the caps, I'm going to try the submersion test to see if there's any leaks. Also, my usual red capper which I've used for a few years was in storage, which is why I ordered one from Midwest when I bought the ingredients. It is a different brand than my old trusty capper. Hmmm. For hitting numbers spot on with a healthy fermentation (was an all extract batch, so not difficult to hit numbers), and coming in slightly under 5 gal at 4.8 gal, 5 oz of priming sugar should have had no problems carbing up.

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It sounds like it may be the capper or caps :/

Had another one tonight. Again, it isn't completely uncarbed, but very under carbed. Interestingly, I noticed that the cap was a little off. It wasn't evenly crimped all the way around. I'm going to examine some more. Thinking I may have found the problem.

I think everyone will ask for more information... grains, yeast, OF/FG, volume in bottling bucket and corn sugar ammount used for priming.

cvbjck said:

I think everyone will ask for more information... grains, yeast, OF/FG, volume in bottling bucket and corn sugar ammount used for priming.

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Troll alert. 2nd time from this one.

1.040 FG sounds scary and tooth meltingly sweet.

Beyond the issues of aerating after yeast addition, directly pitching dry yeast, the FG, and capping issues, how do you add the priming sugar? Maybe you said it and I missed it. If you're just adding the dry sugar to the bottling bucket before or after racking the beer in, then there could be an issue of the sugar not fully dissolving. Try making a simple syrup of the priming sugar by adding the sugar to water and boiling it to fully dissolve the sugar, then cooling it to room temp and then adding it first to the bottling bucket and racking the beer on top of it. Give it a good stir without oxygenating the beer and then bottle. This will ensure a better homogenization of the sugar and make sure some bottles aren't over or undercarbed.

Sounds like no yeast left in suspension to carb up the bottles. Try it without cold crashing...see what happens.