crzepilot
Member
Which recipe did you use?
Southern Tier Pumking Clone??
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Which recipe did you use?
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
I don't know if the Ringwood strain is responsible for the graham cracker taste. I think Ringwood is definitely responsible for the buttery taste, due to the high diacetyl production. The palatable flavor of graham cracker to some could be the buttery flavor of diacetyl. I taste a faint graham cracker flavor.
I'm going to brew two batches, both using ringwood. One with the graham cracker extract and one without. Like I said in my previous post though, one of the ST brewers confirmed that Diacetyl is present in the beer. So, I think the debate over that is put to rest (unless he was lying to me). With that said, the easiest method to introduce diacetyl is through a high-D strain like ringwood. Remember, if you let the beer warm up after primary ends, you'll lose some of the butteriness as the yeast will absorb the D. So, primary, and then keep it cool.
Stumbled across something earlier today. Not sure how legit this guy is, he claims to have brewed at Southern Tier, but either way I think he's right. http://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/1j7pmx/found_my_new_favorite_ipa/cbcist2?context=3
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
Wow, his/her comments were superhelpful.
Having talked to a couple of the brewers, I don't know if I buy that guy's comment or even the validity of him being an ST brewer. They (at least the ones I've talked to) have a very go-git-em attitude towards homebrewers wanting to clone their beers. I mean, I don't think they are sourcing in moonrocks or uranium for their beers.
Typically brewers from a somewhat famous brewery know how to spell their own beers' names.
Yeah I seen that. It always irks me when I see "Pumpking" too.
Not to say he didn't really work there at some point and isn't just a typo. But I'd be just as skeptical as you are.
sivdrinks
Well-Known Member
waldzinator said:
don't use the gc extract!!!
stblindtiger
Well-Known Member
crzepilot said:
Pumpkin Ale
Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer
All Grain (5.50 gal) ABV: 9.62 % (might be a little high based on my estimates for the pumpkin)
OG: 1.086 SG FG: 1.013 SG
IBUs: 34.9 IBUs Color: 11.3 SRM
By: Skibbereen
Ingredients
14 lb - Pale Malt, 2 row (Gambrinus)
Mash addition (82.4%) - 2.0 SRM
1 lb - Victory Malt
Mash addition (5.9%) - 25.0 SRM
12.0 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L
Mash addition (4.4%) - 80.0 SRM
1 box Graham Crackers
Mash
1 lb - Dememera Sugar
Mash addition (5.9%) - 2.0 SRM
4.0 oz - Milk Sugar (Lactose)
Mash addition (1.5%) - 0.0 SRM
1 - Peanut Pumpkin
Mash addition (0.0%) - 3.0 SRM
0.75 oz - Magnum
Boil 60 min (29.6 IBUs)
0.25 oz - Sterling
Boil 60 min (5.3 IBUs)
2.00 tbsp - Ginger Root
Boil 12 min
2.00 Items - Cinnamon Stick
Boil 5 min
0.50 tsp - Allspice
Boil 0 min
0.50 tsp - NUTMEG
Boil 0 min
2 pkg - Safale American
DCL/Fermentis #US-05
5.00 Items - Whole Cloves
Secondary 0 min
1.00 Items - Vanilla Bean
Secondary 0 min
0.50 tsp - Ground Cinnamon
Secondary 0 min
The secondary items were soaked in vodka for 2 weeks, then added to keg by taste.
milldoggy
Well-Known Member
Jim, save me a bottle! This was excellent last year
NervousDad
BFM
I just picked up a few bombers today... I can't wait to try a one....
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
Our recipes are similar.
OG: 1.079, FG: 1.020
ABV: 7.5 --- Not sure how they get it up to 8.6...maybe massive starter?
IBU: 28.5
SRM: 11.3
AG - 5.5 Batch
FERMENTABLES:
14 lb Briess 2-row
12 oz Caramel 80L
9.5 oz Light Brown Sugar Late Addition
4 oz Demerara Sugar Late Addition
HOPS:
.75 oz Magnum 60 Min = 27.0 IBU
.25 oz Sterling 15 Min = 1.5 IBU
EXTRAS:
2 Medium Pumpkins, roasted for 2-2.5 hours at low temperature
.50 tsp Allspice Flameout
.50 Cinnamon Flameout
.50 Nutmeg Flameout
Some ginger (didn't measure) flameout
YEAST:
Wyeast 1178 Ringwood --- 2-3L starter
MASH:
Single infusion 60 Min @ 156
Sparge @ 168
2 weeks primary @ 65degrees, no D-rest
2 weeks secondary
NOTES:
I am still sitting on the fence about the Graham Cracker extract. Enough people have said not to use it that I'm considering doing the crushed graham crackers in mash technique.
stblindtiger
Well-Known Member
Yeah, def skip the extract! Just add the graham crackers to the mash, but be ready with some rice hulls, or an extra grain bag or two! My sparge was a huge PITA!
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
Yeah...I should have added that to my EXTRAS list. I used .5-1 lb of hulls for sparging sake. I also find that combining the pumpkin very thoroughly with the strike water helps to thin it out a bit.
rgilbert
Member
I'm still a beginner to brewing/all grain. I'm looking to do the recipe on Page 20 by gwdlaw and Cannondale. I'm going to swap out the graham cracker extract with 1 box of graham crackers. I've never used rice hulls before. Do I mix them in with the rest of grains/fermentables?
My second question pertains to the yeast. Instead of using S-05, what would happen if I made a starter of WLP001? I haven't made a starter before or used liquid yeast yet, but was interested in going this route if it made the beer better/closer to the real thing.
Thanks for any feedback.
My second question pertains to the yeast. Instead of using S-05, what would happen if I made a starter of WLP001? I haven't made a starter before or used liquid yeast yet, but was interested in going this route if it made the beer better/closer to the real thing.
Thanks for any feedback.
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
Yes, just toss them in there with your crushed grains. They add some binding to everything, which makes lautering and sparging less gawdawful.
Starters are easy, and for higher gravity beers, they definitely help the yeast get the job done without exhausting itself and producing off-flavors. Boil up some water and some DME (if you search for a yeast starter calculator, you can fill in the SOME with actual amounts). Cool it down to pitching temperature, add the yeast (also warmed up to pitching temperature). I put my starter into a well-sanitized growler. Cover loosely with sanitized aluminum foil (you want oxygenation). I agitate mine periodically to help with cell growth. Advanced users use Erlenmeyer flask on magnetic stir plate.
Once about 24h is up, if you are making a large starter, you can chill it overnight prior to brew day. On brew day, pour off the majority of the liquid and retain the sediment sitting at the bottom and a little liquid. This is called decanting.
I make a starter for anything over 1.060.
savylemons
Active Member
This looks like a great recipe and I just loaded it into beersmith and it's on deck. Any reason why the sugar and lactose are added to the mash and not the boil directly?
stblindtiger
Well-Known Member
Oops.... Yeah they are in the boil. I just labeled them wrong in beersmith!
exhumedatbirth
Well-Known Member
When did you toss in the sugars? I may have to give this recipe a whirl this weekend.
Also was this cinnamon on point? I've never brewer with it..but 2 sticks and then an addition in the secondary was not overpowering?
I am going to brew this on Sunday. Thinking to leave out all of the artificial extracts and just use spices and a diacetyl producing strain of yeast. I'm in S Florida with no ferm chamber so it just may work out well for me.
Have people had success using ringwood?
Gotta say, this thread goes from extreme to extreme
Have people had success using ringwood?
Gotta say, this thread goes from extreme to extreme
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
I am going to brew this on Sunday. Thinking to leave out all of the artificial extracts and just use spices and a diacetyl producing strain of yeast. I'm in S Florida with no ferm chamber so it just may work out well for me.
Have people had success using ringwood?
Gotta say, this thread goes from extreme to extreme
I'm brewing this Sunday, too. Ringwood seems to be the correct strain, though I haven't tried my final results yet. I'm actually using the WLP005, which is the ringwood strain, but from another brewery. I have a nice 2L starter going as we speak. Good luck. We'll have to compare notes.
I'm going to be using WLP013 London Ale as LHBS did not have Ringwood in stock. Not using a starter as I cut down on the gravity and am shooting for a 1.077 OG. Laziness is also a factor
. Good luck!
sivdrinks
Well-Known Member
Anyone use Windsor dry ale yeast?
Blue_Monkey
Well-Known Member
I love this stuff! I just bought three 22 oz bottles (@ $9 ea.). Can anyone vouch for the AHS kit?
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
I brewed Sunday. Let me say the 2L starter smelled attrocious, but I did taste some of the liquid when I decanted. Holy Diacetyl. It was nearly overwhelming. Good news!
Brew day f'ing blew. This was my first AG attempt at pumpkin. I used 3 lbs of pumpkin puree, as I couldn't source viable pumpkins yet. Well, I didn't preheat my puree. Just went straight from can to mash. OOPS! I forgot my laws of thermal conductivity and specific heat. I ended up mashing at around 146! See my post here....you really gotta consider this or you will mash very low. I was off by 10 degrees.
I also had a very stuck sparge, even with rice hulls. This was probably at least partially caused by low mash. It took me nearly 1.25 hours to sparge, and I came up about 1 gallon short. Ugh.
I learned a lot for next time, which will be in about 2 weeks.
But yeah, ringwood is the bees knees so far. I already have a 3-4 inch thick krausen on this bad boy and it's only been fermenting for about 18 hours. Good thing I came up short on my volume, because I misplaced my blowoff tube!
Darth_Trader
Member
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WOW gonna try it this weekend
crzepilot
Member
The Ginger Root? Are you folks simply using fresh grated ginger root? or some other variation? Thanks in advance....
SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
crzepilot said:
Be REALLY careful if using fresh ginger. I used just 1 tsp fresh chopped ginger in my pumpkin ale, and the beer tasted solely and entirely of ginger despite the other spices. In fact, I'd stay away from any form of ginger, because it simply doesnt have any "pumpkin pie" type of flavor.
My brew day went pretty well. My first brew since moving to S. Florida so I had to unpack and clean all of my equipment. Got NB's Dark Star burner, that thing is awesome!
I baked the pumpkin until it was mostly dried on the baking sheet, kind of like fruit leather and then let it reconstitute in the mash water. That solved the stuck mash problem and I also didn't have to worry about the pumpkin dropping the mash temp too low as I added it at 180 and then let it come down to strike temp as it reconstituted.
Mashed at 158 because I didn't want to use any lactose.
Only issue was me messing up the sparge water volume and ending up with 7.5 gal of wort instead of 6.5.
I didn't use a starter and pitched the yeast at 82f(couldn't get it any lower than that.) Yeast took 27 hours to start bubbling but is now bubbling like a maniac and is leaking out of the lid of the bucket even though I used a blowoff.
Initial samples tasted awesome.
I baked the pumpkin until it was mostly dried on the baking sheet, kind of like fruit leather and then let it reconstitute in the mash water. That solved the stuck mash problem and I also didn't have to worry about the pumpkin dropping the mash temp too low as I added it at 180 and then let it come down to strike temp as it reconstituted.
Mashed at 158 because I didn't want to use any lactose.
Only issue was me messing up the sparge water volume and ending up with 7.5 gal of wort instead of 6.5.
I didn't use a starter and pitched the yeast at 82f(couldn't get it any lower than that.) Yeast took 27 hours to start bubbling but is now bubbling like a maniac and is leaking out of the lid of the bucket even though I used a blowoff.
Initial samples tasted awesome.
waldzinator
Well-Known Member
This is definitely a best practice. Pumpkin should be brought up to temperature, and you need to compensate for the heat sink effect of the pumpkin when adding it to your strike water.
Glad to hear you had a good brew day. I plan on doing another one in a few weeks after I harvest my yeast. Round 2 should be a little better.
LostTravler
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I have read, took notes and studied everything in this thread over the last week and a half to work on an Imperial Pumpkin Stout Recipe, any input or ideas to change would be appreciated.
this will be a pumpkin imperial stout that the 2nd half will be partigyled into a pumpkin stout. Hows it look? Looking for a slight flavor of chocolate (sort of like TREAT), some dark flavor but not a sharp coffee/burnt taste more like a pie crusty flavor.
Also: too much lacto in the mini stout? dont want too much sweet that its like a milk stout.
Pumpkin Imperial Stout:
OG: 1.107
Est FG: 1.030
Est Abv: 10%
IBU: 76
SRM-35
Grain:
2- Row- 16lb (75%)
Roast Barley- 0.75lb (3%)
Choc Malt- 0.75lb (3%)
Spec B- 0.25lb (1%)
Crystal 80 1.5lb (7%)
Crystal 120 0.75lb (3%)
Carapils 1lb (5%)
Biscuit 0.75lb (3%)
Rice Hulls 2 lbs
I box of crushed graham crackers.
Hops:
2oz EKG @ 60
1oz Fuggles @ 60
1oz- EKG @ 30
1oz Fuggles @ 30
1 tsp yeast nutrient @ 10
1/2 tsp pumpkin pie spice @ 5min
60oz (2 cans) Pumpkin baked 1hr to carmilize with 1 lb brown sugar and pumpkin pie spice
Mash pumpkin with grains at 154 degrees x90 min.
Hit with 1 in pure O2 when transfering to bucket and again 12hrs later before fermentation takes off
Pitch on an old yeast cake of S-04
Transfer to secondary after 3 weeks, add 1 fresh vanilla bean and few cubes of bourboned oak, sit for at least 1 month.
Going to make a "pumpkin spice tea" of 2 tsp pumping pie in Capt Morgan to add at bottling if I think it needs more pumpkin spices
(planning on having 5 lbs of dark DME on hand if my tun doesn't have enough room for everything, to substitute for some 2 row that will be held out of mash)
2nd part (partigyle of second runnings)
Pumpkin Stout
Guestimate:
OG- 1.064
EFG- 1.020
IBU: 5.65
IBU- 46
SRM- 26
Second runnings, will have some DME to bump up the gravity if needed
Lactose 8oz
Hops:
1oz EKG @ 60
1oz Fuggles @ 60
1 oz EKG @ 30
0.5oz Fuggles @ 30
1/2 tsp pumpkin pie spice @ 5min (Will have "pumpkin pie spice tea" if needed at kegging.)
Yeast- S-04
02 when added going to bucket.
this will be a pumpkin imperial stout that the 2nd half will be partigyled into a pumpkin stout. Hows it look? Looking for a slight flavor of chocolate (sort of like TREAT), some dark flavor but not a sharp coffee/burnt taste more like a pie crusty flavor.
Also: too much lacto in the mini stout? dont want too much sweet that its like a milk stout.
Pumpkin Imperial Stout:
OG: 1.107
Est FG: 1.030
Est Abv: 10%
IBU: 76
SRM-35
Grain:
2- Row- 16lb (75%)
Roast Barley- 0.75lb (3%)
Choc Malt- 0.75lb (3%)
Spec B- 0.25lb (1%)
Crystal 80 1.5lb (7%)
Crystal 120 0.75lb (3%)
Carapils 1lb (5%)
Biscuit 0.75lb (3%)
Rice Hulls 2 lbs
I box of crushed graham crackers.
Hops:
2oz EKG @ 60
1oz Fuggles @ 60
1oz- EKG @ 30
1oz Fuggles @ 30
1 tsp yeast nutrient @ 10
1/2 tsp pumpkin pie spice @ 5min
60oz (2 cans) Pumpkin baked 1hr to carmilize with 1 lb brown sugar and pumpkin pie spice
Mash pumpkin with grains at 154 degrees x90 min.
Hit with 1 in pure O2 when transfering to bucket and again 12hrs later before fermentation takes off
Pitch on an old yeast cake of S-04
Transfer to secondary after 3 weeks, add 1 fresh vanilla bean and few cubes of bourboned oak, sit for at least 1 month.
Going to make a "pumpkin spice tea" of 2 tsp pumping pie in Capt Morgan to add at bottling if I think it needs more pumpkin spices
(planning on having 5 lbs of dark DME on hand if my tun doesn't have enough room for everything, to substitute for some 2 row that will be held out of mash)
2nd part (partigyle of second runnings)
Pumpkin Stout
Guestimate:
OG- 1.064
EFG- 1.020
IBU: 5.65
IBU- 46
SRM- 26
Second runnings, will have some DME to bump up the gravity if needed
Lactose 8oz
Hops:
1oz EKG @ 60
1oz Fuggles @ 60
1 oz EKG @ 30
0.5oz Fuggles @ 30
1/2 tsp pumpkin pie spice @ 5min (Will have "pumpkin pie spice tea" if needed at kegging.)
Yeast- S-04
02 when added going to bucket.
Nike_Eayrs
Well-Known Member
Well I had a bottle of this stuff for the first time this weekend and have decided to chase the "white whale!" However, after reading all 60 pages of this thread I feel a little up and against it. In my opinion the grain bill is not the issue. It is the mix of spices that seems to set this one apart, and the ever elusive graham cracker tase!!! I'm ordering stuff this week and will prolly brew the recipe below late next week. I have seen people list it, but nobody has replied after mashing graham crackers. I'm gonna give it a shot and see if that part of the puzzle can be solved. I am thinking I want to mash it high and skip the lactose as I personally don't pick up that in the Southern Tier version. Any input of spices and ampunt of each would be greatly appreciated, as I haven't even tackeld that monster as of yet. One idea I had was to use pimkin pie spice and beef up the ginger. I don't get much, if any, cinnamon but think this would be an easy way to balance out the remaining spices listed on the web site. Cheers!
15 lbs 2 row
1lb crystal 60L
1 lb brown sugar at 10 min
2 boxes graham crakers added to the mash
4 lbs pumkin puree added to stike water and mashed
mashed at 158
yeast
WYeast 1056
0.5 oz Magnum at 60min
1.00 oz sterling at 15min
added to keg
3 vanilla beans soaked in vodka (maybe whipped cream vodka)
ginger (seemingly most important)
cinnamon
nutmeg
clove
allspice
15 lbs 2 row
1lb crystal 60L
1 lb brown sugar at 10 min
2 boxes graham crakers added to the mash
4 lbs pumkin puree added to stike water and mashed
mashed at 158
yeast
WYeast 1056
0.5 oz Magnum at 60min
1.00 oz sterling at 15min
added to keg
3 vanilla beans soaked in vodka (maybe whipped cream vodka)
ginger (seemingly most important)
cinnamon
nutmeg
clove
allspice
Graham crackers have butter in them typically. Most recipes I have seen are simply flour, sugar (various kinds), cinnamon, butter, baking soda, and sometimes honey. So take that for what its worth. if you want butter, pick a high diacetyl strain and crash cool the minute it fully attenuates.
Nike_Eayrs
Well-Known Member
My only thought is the sum of the parts is not equal to the whole. Graham craksers get their distinct taste by being blended and baked and their flavor would not be present by merely adding the ingredients. I considered adding some graham cracker extract, but many people had some very adverse reactions to the taste. The butter does pose a pretty big issue....now that I think about it.
