First-wort Hopping with High-Alpha Hops?

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
tonyolympia

tonyolympia

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
461
Reaction score
23
Location
Olympia
Have any of you done this? I'd appreciate knowing how your beer turned out, particularly if your object was a refined, mellow, non-aggressive hops profile.

That's my goal for my APA, and I need to figure out whether the 14.4%aa Simcoe I want to FWH with is the wrong choice.

If high-alpha FWH worked for you, please let me know how you scheduled your additions.
 
I do it all the time, and I really like the results. I'm actually in the middle of the mash for a smoked black IPA where I FWH with Simcoe and Chinook. The rest of my additions will be in the last fifteen minutes of the boil. I haven't made this recipe before, but I have many others, a couple award-winning, where I have FWH with high AA% hops.

I say go for it.
 
dedhedjed said:
I do it all the time, and I really like the results. I'm actually in the middle of the mash for a smoked black IPA where I FWH with Simcoe and Chinook. The rest of my additions will be in the last fifteen minutes of the boil. I haven't made this recipe before, but I have many others, a couple award-winning, where I have FWH with high AA% hops.

I say go for it.
Click to expand...

Do you happen to recall the IBUs for your FWH addition and your <15 minute additions? Is it just 30% of total hops by weight in FWH, and the remainder in <15?

In your past recipes, did you FWH and also have a bittering addition? Did you have any late-kettle additions at all?

Any hops scheduling details (weight, IBU) you care to share would be appreciated!
 
Here is the hop schedule for one of my favorite FWH IPA recipes...IBU's come in at 109, but without a standard 60 minute bittering addition the perceived bitterness is much smoother IMO...

Variety Alpha Amount IBU When
US Chinook 10.5 % 1.00 oz 40.4 First Wort Hopped
US Chinook 10.5 % 0.50 oz 11.4 20 Min From End
US Simcoe 13.0 % 0.50 oz 14.2 20 Min From End
US Columbus 15.5 % 0.50 oz 16.9 20 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 0.50 oz 9.3 20 Min From End
US Columbus 15.5 % 0.50 oz 5.6 5 Min From End
US Simcoe 13.0 % 0.50 oz 4.7 5 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 0.50 oz 3.0 5 Min From End
US Chinook 10.5 % 0.50 oz 3.8 5 Min From End
US Simcoe 13.0 % 1.00 oz 0.0 Dry-Hopped
US Centennial 8.5 % 1.00 oz 0.0 Dry-Hopped
 
dedhedjed said:
Here is the hop schedule for one of my favorite FWH IPA recipes...IBU's come in at 109, but without a standard 60 minute bittering addition the perceived bitterness is much smoother IMO...
Click to expand...

Thanks much. So according to my calculations, that's 14% of hops by weight in your FWH, and 37% of total IBUs from FWH. That should give me something to monkey around with.
 
I do it all the time! Some high AAU hops have low cohumulone, so it's not a harsh bittering or flavor. That's the important thing, to me. A high cohumulone high AAU hop may be harsh and not nearly as good for FWH or late hopping.

When I use FWH, it does not replace any of my late additions.
 
Yooper said:
I do it all the time! Some high AAU hops have low cohumulone, so it's not a harsh bittering or flavor. That's the important thing, to me. A high cohumulone high AAU hop may be harsh and not nearly as good for FWH or late hopping.

When I use FWH, it does not replace any of my late additions.
Click to expand...

so you just replace the 60min addition and keep late additions the same?
 
Thanks, Yooper. It's interesting to me how many different approaches there are to FWH. Some replace the bittering addition with FWH, some replace late additions, and some keep every addition.

It's also amazing (to a noob like me) the way that adjustments in the hops addition schedule can turn a small amount of hops into a very powerful force! Case in point: this morning the state of my little half-batch recipe was 1046 OG with 33 IBUs from 1oz of Simcoe. After tooling around with some possible FWH schedules, i've arrived at close to 60 IBU! I'm thinking I may need to fatten up my grist so that it doesn't get thrown completely off balance by that one ounce!
 
terrapinj said:
so you just replace the 60min addition and keep late additions the same?
Click to expand...

Generally, yes. I've done a lot of reading about the hops utilization and profile of FWH, but in my experience it simply replaces the 60 minute addition and that's how I've been using it. I've read that the flavors are "more like a 20 minute addition" but it's not that way in my experience. I haven't done any beers head-to-head to see how they differ, but when I make an IPA I usually use a 60 minute addition as fwh, and use a flavorful hop variety for it.
 
Screw it, use whatever hops you want for FWH.:p
"They" say to only use use low AA hops, blah,blah....


This barleywine should be bitter/harsh/ect from the high AA FWH but its very smooth and rich.

OG: 1.103
SRM: 13.2
Anticipated IBU: 126.3

FG 1.020
11% ABV

Attenuation
79.18% ADF 66.69% RDF

50% Marris Otter
50% Munich Malt



56g. Chinook ---> FWH
42g. Centennial ---> FWH
28g. Cascade ---> FWH

50g. Columbus ---> 20 min.
42g. Chinook ---> 15 min.
35g. Centennial ---> 10 min.
28g. Cascade ---> 5 min.
 
dedhedjed said:
Here is the hop schedule for one of my favorite FWH IPA recipes...IBU's come in at 109, but without a standard 60 minute bittering addition the perceived bitterness is much smoother IMO...

Variety Alpha Amount IBU When
US Chinook 10.5 % 1.00 oz 40.4 First Wort Hopped
US Chinook 10.5 % 0.50 oz 11.4 20 Min From End
US Simcoe 13.0 % 0.50 oz 14.2 20 Min From End
US Columbus 15.5 % 0.50 oz 16.9 20 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 0.50 oz 9.3 20 Min From End
US Columbus 15.5 % 0.50 oz 5.6 5 Min From End
US Simcoe 13.0 % 0.50 oz 4.7 5 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 0.50 oz 3.0 5 Min From End
US Chinook 10.5 % 0.50 oz 3.8 5 Min From End
US Simcoe 13.0 % 1.00 oz 0.0 Dry-Hopped
US Centennial 8.5 % 1.00 oz 0.0 Dry-Hopped
Click to expand...

Just found this while looking up first wort hopping, great shedule and exciting part is I think I can do most that with home grown hops this year. I have Cascade, but no Simcoe. Could use my Magnum instead of Simcoe and just add in the Cascade....but thanks for the numbers and details!!!
 
Houblon said:
This barleywine should be bitter/harsh/ect from the high AA FWH but its very smooth and rich.

OG: 1.103
SRM: 13.2
Anticipated IBU: 126.3

FG 1.020
11% ABV

Attenuation
79.18% ADF 66.69% RDF

50% Marris Otter
50% Munich Malt

56g. Chinook ---> FWH
42g. Centennial ---> FWH
28g. Cascade ---> FWH

50g. Columbus ---> 20 min.
42g. Chinook ---> 15 min.
35g. Centennial ---> 10 min.
28g. Cascade ---> 5 min.
Click to expand...

OMG....or I could do a barley wine with my own hops?!?! LOL. Too many options all of a sudden!! (This only second growth year and i only have one plant of each, so not sure I could make two beers.)
 
Yooper said:
I've read that the flavors are "more like a 20 minute addition" but it's not that way in my experience.
Click to expand...
Me either. What I will say is that even though the IBU number is higher, the bitterness perception is smoother and less harsh. In some ways like a 20 minute addition, but I still need the later flavor addition to compliment it.
 
AnOldUR said:
Me either. What I will say is that even though the IBU number is higher, the bitterness perception is smoother and less harsh. In some ways like a 20 minute addition, but I still need the later flavor addition to compliment it.
Click to expand...

Sorry AnOldUR...I was practicing thread necro, not sure any of the original people still around to even see our comments.

(But this way it puts the thread in my "my replies" search for harvest season this year.)

ps...although your input is helpful and I am all about smooth bitterness in my IPA's and not that tongue curling sweet tart thing some beers have.
 
tonyolympia said:
Have any of you done this? I'd appreciate knowing how your beer turned out, particularly if your object was a refined, mellow, non-aggressive hops profile.

That's my goal for my APA, and I need to figure out whether the 14.4%aa Simcoe I want to FWH with is the wrong choice.

If high-alpha FWH worked for you, please let me know how you scheduled your additions.
Click to expand...

I do this with my IPA's. I tend to use a hop that has a clean bittering, like Warrior, that doesn't have a lot of aroma. I find that FWH'ing also smooths out the harshness of the bitterness. If you're going for big aroma with your hops, use your favorite for FWH, as I've done a couple with strictly Citra because I love the smell of it in an IPA.
 

Similar threads

J
Alpha rest followed by a beta rest
Replies
17
Views
1K
jujitsudave
J
HM-2
New England IPA "Drenched In [Hop]": Single-Hop Hazy IPA "Framework"
Replies
2
Views
441
HM-2
HM-2
Gadjobrinus
Strong Bitter - "Fuller's Hopping" with First Gold
Replies
0
Views
452
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus
Riggwelter - hops & grist?
Replies
0
Views
535
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus
HM-2
Double IPA "Eldritch Terror" - West Coast Imperial IPA
Replies
3
Views
590
JAReeves
JAReeves

Latest posts

Back
Top