Newbie Question about wine kit degassing and books

Hey All-

I am new to the forums! I just started brewing beer over the summer and have really been enjoying the experience. I am thinking about moving into winemaking as well.

I would like to start with a wine kit, probably one of the Winexpert kits. My main goal for doing a kit is to learn the procedure first and then move onward and upward from there(similar to what I did for the first beer I brewed). Winemaking seems like a very straight forward process(I know there is alot of art involved in it) After watching a few online videos, it seems like everyone degases the wine in order for it to be done more quickly. I also understand you can either degas, bulk age or vacuum out the co2 in your wine. It seems like most wines you usually do not try to degas like from a kit, so for the sake of practice, it seems to me like I would rather bulk age it and use that as the method to rid the wine of co2. Also I am not 'in a hurry' to get the wine done. I'd rather wait and have quality(not to say I wouldn't love to have quality in a shorter period of time).

So that leads to the question: what is the general consensus on degasing wine kit wine? Is it a good idea? Do I gain anything by doing it? Do I lose anything by doing it? If I did do it, how long would I need to keep it in the aging carboy(roughly)? How can I tell it is done(I asked Wayne about this and got some good answers)? Are there any good online resources that expand on this topic?

Last but not least, I am also looking for good winemaking resources, either online or in a book. For example, I have Papazian's beer book along with John Palmers book on beer. I like Palmer's book a bit better. I haven't found any books similar to Palmer's for winemaking, so just wondering if someone could point me in the correct direction.


Thanks all!

don't know the rules here about referencing other sites, but both winemakingtalk.com and winepress.us/forums are good resources for beginners.
bulk aging can let the kit wines degass naturally, but it can take a long time and is also affected by storage temp, colder storage making it harder for CO2 to come out of suspension in the wine.
kit wines for some reason tend to be more carby after fermentation than fresh grapes wines - i don't know why, it's just been my experience.
the drill-mounted degassing sticks work alright if you are careful to minimize O2 introduction and concentrate on getting the fizz out. this is usually most effective if the carboy wine is 80*F or so. pulse and be careful about a volcano of foam, and endless vortex won't do much good - it is the agitation, not the motion, that drives the CO2 out in this method. same with manual stirring.
Vacuum is very effective if you have the setup - i've used it with glass carboys and an old medical aspirator vac pump i picked up off ebay.
Bulk aging is also effective, but unpredictable. can take 6-12 months to fully degass using this method...

you can easily check for level of CO2 carbonation by pulling a small sample of wine and putting into a white labs vial or small bottle or whatever is handy and giving it a shake to see if it creates the tell-tale carbonation poof.

keep in mind that all wine will have some nearly undetectable level of carbonation - an entirely and completely flat wine will lack structure on the palate so it's a bit of an art to find the right balance. for most still wines, you want no effervescence on the tongue and no visible carbonation in the glass...

if you do not degass the wine at all, it will be spritzy and not necessarily in a good way - balance will be off, it may be too acidic, mouthfeel, etc will be affected.

for the medium-priced to high-priced wineexpert kits, reds should age for a year minimum, and will improve over 2-3 years or more for the super kits. whites can be drunk in 6-9 months depending on style, but will also improve after at least a year...

if you bulk age, be sure to adjust your K-Meta additions accordingly, the kit supplied k-meta will assume you are bottling at the end of secondary, if bulk aging, typically you would add the kit k-meta when racking from secondary to the aging carboy, and then add 1/4teaspoon k-meta approx every 3 months or each subsequent racking, whichever comes first. the goal is to maintain optimal 50ppm kmeta for the pH of the wine... without a method to measure pH and sulfite levels however, the 1/4 tsp rule is usually sufficient.

good books would be The Way to Make Wine and From Vines to Wine. there is a decent amount of lab work and chemistry when you get beyond kits... but you can produce very good wines with good quality kits and they can measure up to $20 commercial bottles no problem. susceptibility to infection is much lower with wine than beer. good sanitation should be practiced still, but wine is more forgiving IMHO.

For first kits, i would recommend a white, it will be drinkable sooner and is more straightforward to make. Luna Bianca is a great chardonnay from WE, their pinot gris/grigios are also popular first kits. I would avoid the lowest priced level of kits, as the end product is usually not up to expectations. Start with something from the Selection Original or Selection International Line. Selection Estate are the super premium kits but are best tackled after you have a few batches under your belt as they are a decent-sized investment in raw ingredients.....
Luna Bianca and Luna Rossa are both kits that give consistently good results.

wine takes way more patience than beer - so, if you can afford it, make alot of kits early on, every couple months, so that in a year or so - you'll have an ongoing supply of wine coming into maturity...

collect half-bottles/splits - bottle some of each batch into these and use these to sneak a taste before you know it is ready - so you don't waste a whole bottle.

best investment (beyond the typical fermentation equipment you mostly already have) is a floor corker, portugese or italian, doesn't matter. don't even bother with a hand corker.

use good corks for good wine, cheap corks for cheap wine. don't be stingy and skimp on the cork, it will bite you in the end when you go to try that wine you put away for 5-10 years and it's ruined... expect to hold some bottles back for a long long time. it usually gets better and better with age.

Any other questions, post up. Happy to help.

I've got limited wine experience, but I would follow the kit instructions as close as possible on the first kit. As long as you have the space for the bottles, degas and bottle in the timeframe given. I made my own plastic degas whip from some tubing I had lying around and the process took 10 minutes as I recall. It worked well and my test bottles have been well received after 4-5 months only. I don't expect to start drinking it for a year.

btw - I bought some Zorks for the first wine so I did not have to waste money on a cheap corker. The Zorks worked well so far.