lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Just so you know, maximum fermentability is achieved at 149F.
The "bad advice I got from the LBHS" thread
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Just so you know, maximum fermentability is achieved at 149F.
knightbeer39
Well-Known Member
I guess its a matter of personal preference; plastic has the potential for scratches that can harbor bacteria. Glass, much less so. I personally don't ferment anything in plastic anymore, only glass carboys or demijohns.
JesseRC
Well-Known Member
Yup, you're right on that! He did give the right info for gettin the most fermentables, but he didnt tell me how I was supposed to achieve a sweeter Stout. I was just shooting the breeze anyway. I asked hime about his grain prices, they sound reasonable, he said they range from 1.50 to 1.99. Sounds good.
hexmonkey
Well-Known Member
I've never heard this stated anywhere...where did you get this information from?
Not trying to argue with you, I'm just curious.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Cpt_Kirks
Well-Known Member
Based on the charts I have seen, I thought Beta Amylase maxed out at about 145*F. That would give you a THIN brew, though.
I tend to shoot for the "magic number" of 152*F, depending on the type.
Cpt_Kirks
Well-Known Member
OK, I see that. I guess my "145" must have come from the row below that one.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Yup, 145F would produce a very thin beer and you'd lose extract points. From the same table:
Highest percentage fermentability - 145.4F
Fastest saccharification (dextrinization) - 158F
Highest Extract (mostly starch conversion) - 149F - 154.4F
hexmonkey
Well-Known Member
I'm confused by:
Highest percentage fermentability - 145.4F
Why is that different from "Highest yield of fermentable extract"?
How can you have a higher percentage fermentability and not actually yield as much?
Highest percentage fermentability - 145.4F
Why is that different from "Highest yield of fermentable extract"?
How can you have a higher percentage fermentability and not actually yield as much?
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
I'm confused by:
Highest percentage fermentability - 145.4F
Why is that different from "Highest yield of fermentable extract"?
How can you have a higher percentage fermentability and not actually yield as much?
As lower temperatures (e.g. 145F), you get more simple sugars which increases the fermentability percentage. But the fermentable extract yield is lower since it takes [literally] forever for a mash to convert all of the available starches at lower temperatures. For example, it's been reported that BMC uses a step mash that starts at 140F and very slowly steps up to 158F (focusing on the 145F - 149F range) to obtain high fermentability and extract yield.
At higher temperatures, the extract conversion is much faster but results in more complex sugars that are not as easily consumed by yeast, which decreases the fermentability percentage. So, through experimentation, it was found the optimal fermentable extract yield occurs at 149F (2 hour mash). See Figure 6 below:
Figure 6 - extract (solid lines) and fermentable extract (dashed lines) achieved with isothermal mashes at 3 different temperatures. (Data by Windisch, Kolbach and Schild via [Briggs, 2004]
dzlater
Well-Known Member
That's how I ended up 3%AA spalt instead of the cascade I was looking for
First time I ever decided to brew, I went into my shop and got a bunch of equipment, everything I needed. I proceeded to look at the vast array of kits, and the guy comes over and picks up the "Smoked Porter" kit, and tells me I should give it a try. I was really new to craftbeers, Sierra Nevada seemed outlandish and adventurous, and I had never homebrewed. Doesn't a smoked Porter sound like a really odd selection? Of course I listened to him, it turned out terrible, and I didn't brew again for almost two years. Thankfully after getting into drinking good beers, and moving to the PNW, I was swayed back into interest, found this site, and have brewed many a good batch since.
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't give a smoked beer to even the most seasoned beer drinkers. I can't stand the stuff, so I won't put other people through that torture.
Yeah, I've since tried several homebrewed and commercial smoked porters, and have yet to try one that I could finish. In retrospect, I am almost certain that this was an old kit that they probably were more than happy to unload on the unsuspecting kid I was at the time.
smalltown2001
Active Member
The mistake I made early in my brewing career was to ask the LHBS if all-grain beers are really that much better than extract. Of course they told me that it wouldn't be so, that you can make as good of beers with extract as you can with all-grain. Which I'm sure you can, but of course there is some bias to their response. They make a lot more money on the extract than the grains. I know a fellow homebrewer that goes to the same shop, still does extract but kegs his beer, and I asked him why he hasn't gone all-grain yet, and he said it was too messy and too much time and a lot of equipment. Whether that is from his experience, or from what the homebrew store has convinced him to think is yet to be determined. I've learned that a lot of advice you have to take with a grain of salt, and you can only determine what is true and what is myth from experience.
Pickngrin
Well-Known Member
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
Pretty much everything you've said about all-grain here is true. Not really messy, but it can be. Also, in all-grain, there's more variables. This means more to mess up. I fully believe you can make excellent quality beers with extract. And I'm an all-grain brewer. The only difference between the two is no using pre-converted malt, and having more control over the finished beer.
Ridebreck
Well-Known Member
I've been lucky enough to never receive bad advice from LHBS. Great guys over there with good knowledge. If they dont know it, they will walk next door and talk to the guys at the brewery that is attached.
The brewery attached just won Small Brewery of the Year at GABF. Big props to Dry Dock
Same with my LHBS in the Springs. The store is actually within the brewery (Rocky Mountain Brewery) and you can brew on premisis. The guys are passionate about beer and are very willing to help. Some of the employees are more seasoned than others, but since I know who the owner and head brewer are, I know who to go to when I need a good answer.
I go to Joe at Princenton Homebrew and he is amazing.....I don't order anything online because he will get it for me and I would rather give him the business
I'm not going to say what LHBS I go to in Houston, Tx, but the one I go to seems to know there stuff. I have read quite a few books on the subject and have researched it for more hours than I can count over the years. Like many others, I often quiz the guys at the beer store even if I know the answer. I wouldn't say I quiz them, but I often ask for their advice even if I know how to do what I'm asking. I typically get good advice.
This is the test that I've found they really know there stuff:
I go knowing what hops I need for my brew and what the best substitutions are if they are out of the first pick. I ask them what would be the best substitution for say "X" hop and they have time and time again told me the one I had on my list off the top of their head.
I no longer wonder if they know what they're talking about.
This is the test that I've found they really know there stuff:
I go knowing what hops I need for my brew and what the best substitutions are if they are out of the first pick. I ask them what would be the best substitution for say "X" hop and they have time and time again told me the one I had on my list off the top of their head.
I no longer wonder if they know what they're talking about.
Grind any smaller than .40 and you will only make flour!
Just pour the yeast (whitelabs vial) into the fermenter and you're good to go!
There are other examples...in general, though, my LHBS is ok. Good thing too, because the next closest one is on the Big Island.
Just pour the yeast (whitelabs vial) into the fermenter and you're good to go!
There are other examples...in general, though, my LHBS is ok. Good thing too, because the next closest one is on the Big Island.
Pickngrin
Well-Known Member
Bad advice abounds!
syd138
Well-Known Member
Not if you are talking about Brew and Grow..
those guys are arrogant pot heads that know absolutely nothing about brewing. They are complete jerks and offer terrible service. I have gotten terrible advice.. and they have flat out refused to help me with recipes, etc.
Bev Art on 95th and Western is great though.. those guys really know what they are talking about and are very helpful
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
I too am a bit sick of the Brew and Grow crews (which seems to be univerally hippies) but I think we should lay off a bit. They were probably hired primarily to sell indoor growing equipment and not introduced into homebrewing until they started working there.
I've learned not to take any advice from them, but at least in Rockford they're all nice people.
kornkob
Resident Crazy Uncle
I find that one of the litmus tests for a retailer who actually knows what he is talking about and is an honest retailer is someone who can cite viable, independent sources of information and/or refer you to a competitor who is as good or better than they are at what they do.
kornkob
Resident Crazy Uncle
Or that particular retail drone actually preferred smoked stout and thus was selling his personal bias. Or he heard someone come in and brag about how awesome the smoked porter was and thus recommended it based on that. Or because the drone drank a plain old porter the night before and thought was was awesome so he pushed the smoked porter thinking that if the porter was good than obviously the smoked porter must be better.
I'm more inclined to blame incompetence or indifference than malice in most cases of retail drones selling the wrong crap or giving bad advice.
maskednegator
Well-Known Member
This is actually excellent advice for certain styles of beer.
Uh, only if your beer is 1.025 og or below. For just about everything else you really should be making starters with liquid yeast.
maskednegator
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that a variety of styles (saisons, certain wheat beers) that have estery or phenolic flavors and aromas benefit from underpitching yeast.
SFBEER
Well-Known Member
My LHBS is run by 2 guys. One is the beer guy and one is the wine guy. They seem to have decided years ago on this arrangement. They both know a little about the others specialty but if you have a specific question then you want the right guy. I have seen them call each other at home for the answers if needed. They do extract brews with specialty grains right in house so they have a pretty good handle on somethings.
When you want a certain flavor quality to your beer it's better to use strains that produce phenols and any other characteristics naturally and pitch a healthy amount of it. That way you have a measure of control of it, and there's also no worry about stalled fermentation from stressed out yeast. It also has an extra benefit of cutting down on lag time amongst other things. You can also play with temps to push the envelope.
But making a starter if always a good idea. For one thing it ensures the viabilty of the yeast (and therefore less "is my yeast dead" threads.) It also makes sure there is enough yeast to get the job done.
Besides it's doubtful THAT was what the LHBS guy was intending when he gave that information; the nuances between producing phenols in certain styles of beer. More than likely he was just generally making a blanket statement. If he had gone into the discourse you suggested that COULD BE construed as possibly good info, if he went into the different theories.
But I don't get the feeling that was the context mummasan was referring to.
My first visit to my old LHBS was simply fantastic. Starting shooting the breeze about brewing, and that I was thinking about starting. Asked what would be best to start with Ale Pales, Better Bottles, or Carboys. His suggestion? Start with the cheapest equipment that will work - and invest in a good set of ingredients. If you don't like homebrewing, you won't have invested a lot of cash, if you're on the fence - a good set of ingredients might push you over, and you can always upgrade to better equipment later. He didn't have the boxed "kit" available, so he grabbed all the equipment that was in the kit, and threw in a copy of "How to Brew".
When I went back to figure out how to start kegging, he talked me through how to build a jockey box, how much beer line to get (8 feet), and even helped me figure out what temp to carb at if it wasn't going to be in a kegerator yet...
Since we moved, I've stopped by the LHBS here and I haven't been impressed. I now view Brewmasters Warehouse and Williams Brewing as my LHBS.
When I went back to figure out how to start kegging, he talked me through how to build a jockey box, how much beer line to get (8 feet), and even helped me figure out what temp to carb at if it wasn't going to be in a kegerator yet...
Since we moved, I've stopped by the LHBS here and I haven't been impressed. I now view Brewmasters Warehouse and Williams Brewing as my LHBS.
Sounds like you experience was like mine, finding a "winner" lhbs right off the bat.
This was a good discussion we had awhile back, with a guy who was looking to open an LHBS. It's sort of the opposite of this, in the sense that some of us offered insight into what a good lhbs should be like.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/do-you-support-your-lhbs-140076/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/do-you-support-your-lhbs-140076/
Exactly... It wasn't until my 3rd or 4th visit that I realized he was a classmate from high school! I only wish the one closest to me in VA Beach was better. When the owners are there - no problems, when they're not...
When I went there, they've been pretty good. They support the hobby in the area and used to be pretty active in the hobby. Now, the bulk of their business is growing supplies, so you can't really blame them for making that their primary focus. I mean, the $50 you spend on supplies doesn't really compare to the 3 grand the guy behind you is spending on growing equipment and supplies. He must have the nicest tomatoes in the neighborhood.
Suthrncomfrt1884
Well-Known Member
Tomatoes...right.
amercuric
Well-Known Member
i lol'd.
Seven Bridges in Santa Cruz has one or two really knowledgeable kids that work the front desk. It was akward at first because I applied for the same job, but it's all good.
johnnyc
Well-Known Member
It hurts since the guy was helpful in the beginning but I overheard him today tell a new brewer that ice from Kroger was sanitary and he could dump that into his wort. Went so far as to say it was cleaner than the ice from his fridge. He's not even familiar with starters, he only uses dry yeast. Sure it works in many situations but there's so much variety to be had w/ liquid yeast. I actually introduced him to biab too...He's only done extract and thinks that all grain takes 7-8 hrs.
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