experimenting with Brett in a Saison

I am making a saison this weekend in the true spirit of the style by using only the ingrdients on hand, and not making a trip to the LHBS before brew day. It will be a 10 gallon batch made mostly with Pilsner malt, some wheat, some Vienna, some honey, and hopped with Saaz. I had one packet of Belle Saison dry yeast in the fridge that I am currently building up in a starter to pitch on Sat. I will start the fermentation at 75, and let it rise to over 80, and hold it there for 3 weeks or so.

I also had a Boulevard Brett Saison last week that I thought was fantastic, and it got me thinking. I would like to split this batch, and add some Brett to 5 gallons. I have never used Brett, nor any other methods of producing sour or funky beers, but I do love to drink them.

My first thought was to transfer 5 gallons to a carboy when kegging the other 5 gallons, pitch a Brett starter, maybe add some additional sugar or honey, then put it in the corner for 6 months to see what happens.

But after doing a bit of reading on here, I realize that there might be some better options to develop the Brett flavor, so I am considering some of the following options, and would love some input on which is most likely to produce a beer with Brett character.

1. Described above, primary ferment, add to carboy, pitch Brett starter, add some fermentables, sit it in the corner for 6 months.
2. Should I pull the 5 gallons off the primary fairly early (1-3 days in), move to the carboy, pitch the Brett, then put it in the corner?
3. Should I split the batch after the boil, and pitch the Brett at the start along with the Belle Saison starter. This would mean a trip to the LHBS to buy the Brett, but oh well.

Is there something else I am not considering? What kind of temp control is needed for a Brett fermentation, is a 65F basement fine, or do I need to warm it up a bit?

Any input is welcome, there are probably some other thi9ngs I am not considering that would give this beer a better chance at being really good.

I've used brett in saisons with co-picthing with sacch, and adding it for bulk aging in a secondary. Personally, I would do the 10gal clean ferment, then split into 5gal kegged and 5gal w/brett. You dont need a huge amount fo brett per se. Actually, stressing ti should get you more funky flavors theoretically.

One thing ive been messing with is aeration for brett beers. My all brett IPA fermented well with no oxygen added. One thing to be careful of is transferring to the secondary and taking readings of the brett beer. Ive found brett can get almost to sour territory if exposed to too much oxygen

you dont need any temp control for the clean or brettd saison. Ive pushed belle saison past 90F and it turned out great

Belle Saison is a great yeast.......... You can get a full range of flavors that vary in intensity with temperature. I've been tempted to try some brett also, but the brett I have has lacto in it........... Not what I thought when I bought it. You get plenty of funk if you ferment Belle Saison high...... I just put an Imperial Saison on tap yesterday that was heavily hopped with Amarillo, Calliente, and Willamette........ whirlpooled with an additional dose of Amarillo. It's awesome........ Intensely fruity and a touch of perceived sourness. The fruity funky flavors from hop bursting and fermenting in the 90's have resulted in a wonderfully complex beer. It's a very murky beer due to a lot of unmalted wheat and other grains........ You don't taste the "whoop ass" 8.5% ABV...just the complex blend of flavors. It was an unqualified success........ Murky beer is not for everybody.... this one will never "drop clear", and it would seem strange to drink a beer like this if it were crystal clear.


H.W.

Brett is a great addition to a saison. I pretty much add brett to all my Saisons now. I have 4 of them in various stages of aging.

I have been just fermenting and transfer to a carboy. Add brett and let it sit for 4-6 months.

You can buy commercial brett or just use bottle dregs from beers that have brett in them. Orval is great because the brett is usually pretty fresh since they add it at bottling. I like to add several different bottle dregs for some variety.

Look here for a good list of beers that have brett in them.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html

Also if you want to learn a lot about brett watch these videos of an interview with Chad Yakobson. Very interesting stuff.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AjVOzBtE27Y[/ame]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Swv294Xkbq8[/ame]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9FtfPKRBUhA[/ame]

Adding in secondary should be just fine. Depending on the brett strain, you'll get different levels of intensity. I've seen brett characteristics come through after one month, but usually it's about 2-3 months where it starts to really come out. If you do add brett in secondary, taste after one month, two months, three months. Don't be afraid to bottle/carb it if you like how it tastes. One of the best things about brett beers is how they evolve over time. Enjoy it fresh but also save some for next year!

Ive just used Brett for the first time and it was added to a Saison as well. I mashed in high at 156 and then let my sacch strain take care of the whole primary fermentation. after about 4 weeks I transferred to a carboy and added the Brett. I didn't use a starter as i have been told the stressing of the Brett will develop some nice funk to it. Brett likes a warmer fermentation of temps above 65 so if you have another place that can be closer to 75 thats where i would age it out.

Since this will be a split batch I wouldn't bother with the high mash temp, as I've been told that even with little sugar left to chop through, the brett will also chow through Proteins and other non sugar substances. also i'd add the honey right as high krausen dies down, I'd use raw local honey and i wouldn't heat it either, as heat will kill most of the delicate honey aromas.

Thanks for the input. I do add honey directly into the fermenter rather than the boil, I agree that it helps preserrve some of the flavor, as well as further dry out the beer.

It sounds like adding the Brett straight into the secondary with no starter is the way I will go, and then let it ride for a few months, with some tastes along the way.

Are you planning to add dregs from the Saison Brett or buy a commercial strain?

My plan was to buy a commercial strain, and still deciding exactly which one. Any recommendations for maximum Brett character?

brett b goes well with saison. Brett L gives nice cherry flavours when under pitched in 2ndary, but I prefer Brett L in darker beers ( porter ).

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but brett flavors supposedly develop under pressure better. I've had a saison finish at around 1.006 and then bottled with brett (using bombers and carbing to about 2.5). No bombs from the bottles, and great brett flavor after a few months. As others have mentioned, B is medium strength brett flavor, while L is pretty intense (but in a good way). A bottle of my saison from almost 1.5 year ago that's been aging in the bottle with brett L for at least a year is beautifully funky. It's one of the most in your face brett funks I've ever had. At my LHBS at least, White Labs strains are about half the price of Wyeast, but I've been reading great things about Yeast Bays brett offerings.

If you really like brett flavors, I would suggest Lambicus for 2-3 months in the bottle if you can get it to finish low enough initially. If you bulk age, don't sample too often. While brett is a great oxygen scavenger, it can also produce acetic acid when exposed to oxygen (unless you want some of that in your beer, which you might). Most of my bretted beers don't get bulk aged since they have mostly been saisons. On the other hand I have a barleywine that's been bulk aging with brett for a year now (FG was 1.024, last time I checked in April it was only 1.020).

Redhawk96 said:

My plan was to buy a commercial strain, and still deciding exactly which one. Any recommendations for maximum Brett character?

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Ive scoured several blogs where they seems to focus on wild brewing (bear flavored, mad fermentationist) and it seems like:
- mashing a bit higher to leave more for the brett to chew on
- doing a ferulic acid rest like you would for a hefe
- pitching the brett after primary fermentation is complete
will all get you more brett character

gometz said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but brett flavors supposedly develop under pressure better. I've had a saison finish at around 1.006 and then bottled with brett (using bombers and carbing to about 2.5). No bombs from the bottles, and great brett flavor after a few months. As others have mentioned, B is medium strength brett flavor, while L is pretty intense (but in a good way). A bottle of my saison from almost 1.5 year ago that's been aging in the bottle with brett L for at least a year is beautifully funky. It's one of the most in your face brett funks I've ever had. At my LHBS at least, White Labs strains are about half the price of Wyeast, but I've been reading great things about Yeast Bays brett offerings.

If you really like brett flavors, I would suggest Lambicus for 2-3 months in the bottle if you can get it to finish low enough initially. If you bulk age, don't sample too often. While brett is a great oxygen scavenger, it can also produce acetic acid when exposed to oxygen (unless you want some of that in your beer, which you might). Most of my bretted beers don't get bulk aged since they have mostly been saisons. On the other hand I have a barleywine that's been bulk aging with brett for a year now (FG was 1.024, last time I checked in April it was only 1.020).

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I hadn't really thought about bottle aging, I was going to bulk age in the secondary. I think the bottle aging option might work better. I bought a vial of Brett L, I am going to make a small starter for the purpose of saving half of the yeast for future experiments. If this saison finishes where the last one did, it will be at 1.004 after primary. Do you think that, plus a vial of Brett L and the appropriate amount of priming sugar will get me the Brett character without making bottle bombs?

Personally I have not had a problem with it. I have bottled about 4 batches (off the top of my head) that finished around 1.004-1.006 with brett with no issues. They were each primed for about 2.5 volumes as well. The only issue I have ever encountered on them is stubborn head that doesn't dissipate easily, but that usually isn't a big problem if I refrigerate them a day in advance.

I am 2 weeks into the fermentation of the saison, and my gravity check last night showed it was down to 1.002 already (OG = 1.063).

At that low of a FG, will there be enough left for the Brett to eat (including the corn sugar for bottle carbonation) and develop that characteristic flavor?

My plan is to keg 5 gal. and bottle 5 gal. with Brett added on Sunday.

Redhawk96 said:

I am 2 weeks into the fermentation of the saison, and my gravity check last night showed it was down to 1.002 already (OG = 1.063).

At that low of a FG, will there be enough left for the Brett to eat (including the corn sugar for bottle carbonation) and develop that characteristic flavor?

My plan is to keg 5 gal. and bottle 5 gal. with Brett added on Sunday.

Click to expand...

I've found (and read on a few funky-oriented blogs) that the idea that brett needs somethign to chew on to achieve more brett character isnt really accurate. Chad whatever his last name is from crooked stave mentioned this and said he likes using oats and flaked wheat to provide more body to counteract bretts attenuation

m00ps said:

I've found (and read on a few funky-oriented blogs) that the idea that brett needs somethign to chew on to achieve more brett character isnt really accurate. Chad whatever his last name is from crooked stave mentioned this and said he likes using oats and flaked wheat to provide more body to counteract bretts attenuation

Click to expand...

Yes, brett does not need a lot to develop flavors. There is no need to mash high at all. If you look at the Chad Yackobson videos I posted, he mentions that the only thing mashing high will do is that it will take longer to finish.

I have also used flaked wheat, oats, rye or barley in my brett saisons and it works great.

So just go ahead and pitch the brett and you will be good. I have done several that were in the 1.002-1.004 range and they developed nice brett character after a few months.

beergolf said:

Yes, brett does not need a lot to develop flavors. There is no need to mash high at all. If you look at the Chad Yackobson videos I posted, he mentions that the only thing mashing high will do is that it will take longer to finish.

I have also used flaked wheat, oats, rye or barley in my brett saisons and it works great.

So just go ahead and pitch the brett and you will be good. I have done several that were in the 1.002-1.004 range and they developed nice brett character after a few months.

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I bottled this last weekend, with 5 gallons going into 22 oz. bombers with enough priming sugar for 2.5 volumes and a pitch of the Brett L that I had made a small starter with to save some for the future. The other 5 galoons went inbto a keg with no Brett.

The beer finished at 1.003, but I had 3% of both flaked wheat and flaked oats in the mash, and the kegged sample tasted great, and not too thin. I've got the bottles in a plastic tote just in case they explode, and sitting in an upstairs closet at about 75F. I am going to give them at least 3 months before sampling, I can't wait to see how it turns out. After a few months, I will move them to the basement at 60-65F.

Thanks for all of the advice, I will report back in few months after I've sampled the first one.

So after 3 months in the bottle, my experiment has yielded what I would call light Brett character in this Saison. It will actually be a good beer to introduce the uninitiated to Brett beers. The beer is delicious, and I am hopefull that another couple of months gives some more intense Brett character, but only time will tell.