High FGs since starting Partial Mashes

I started off with doing extract batches and always hit my numbers just right. Since i've started doing PMs, I have had an issue with my FGs not getting low enough. They have always been anywhere from 6 to 10 pts higher than what the calculated or suggested FG should be.

For instance I had a koelsch that was suposed to finish off at 1.016 and it was 1.022. My blonde that I just checked yesterday after its been in primary for 3 weeks is at 1.026 when it should be 1.016. An APA in between was in the 20s when it should have been teens...

OGs are right where they should be, btw. I mean, its not the end of the world but they have definitely been more malty than I would like.

I am at a loss as to what could be wrong here. Any ideas as to whats going on? Any tips or tricks to help this in the future????

What temp are you doing your mini-mash at? If you're mashing high then that would explain this. Also are you hitting your OG or has that been higher too?

I have notes at home so idk exactly but I am following recipe directions as well as DeathBrewer's notes in the easy partial mash brewing thread (usually around 150°F unless a recipe calls for otherwise.) I am able to hold a temp fairly well.

OGs are spot on.

Are you following Mr. Malty suggested pitching rates? Are you fermenting at low temps? You say 150 degrees - do you mean that is your mash temp and you hold 150 throughout the mash? How long are you mashing?

hmmm, i havent made starters at all which could be it, but the fermentation on the blonde was very rigorous and almost blew off the airlock so i wouldnt imagine that would be the problem.

and yes, i mean that for mash temps. For instance with the APA i had 6 lbs of grain using a mash thickness of 1.25 and heated my strike water up to 171°F to account for the grain temp and got about 154°F and was able to hold that for an hour. then i sparged for about 10 mins @ 168°F (looking back, i actually had a higher OG reading for the APA so maybe thats not the best example, but wouldnt the yeast eat it down to where it should have been or is that all relative?).

Are you overdoing the specialty malts? That could increase non-fermentable sugars.

nope, following ingredient directions to a T. and it isnt water as I have used both spring AND tap (tap water here in rochester is awesome for brewing).

How sure are you that your thermometer is 100% accurate in the 140-160F range?

its a floating thermometer that goes up to 200 something (probably boiling) that i bought at my LHBS. fairly certain its not the thermometer but then again, ive never really run tests on it or anything

may want to calibrate/check your thermometer - my floating thermo from LHBS reads about 2-3 degrees low

would that make that much of a difference though???

150 +/- 2 degrees isn't that bad. Granted, it's not something you want either as it WILL make a difference in the attenuation and mouthfeel.

However I had a lot of trouble hitting gravities on my first couple of AG batches until I finally figured out my thermometer was off by over 10 degrees in that range. Got a new thermometer and suddenly my beers were turning out fine.

maybe i'll need to just keep trying and figure out different ways to go about things

you said above you mashed at 154° so it could be in the 156-157+ range depending on your thermometer

what about fermentation temps? i had an IPA finish high recently - i believe it was partially due to low oxygenation and low end fermentation temps ~ 62° for wyeast1056

maybe i need to aerate more. ferm temps were at an ambient 62-65 F

Are you using healthy grains? Assuming you are, and that you are mashing as you state, yeast health could definitely be the cause.

Aeration could be it, pitching rate could be it or absence of nutients. I guess you could try yeast nutrients but you shouldn't really need to do that.

Some people also ramp up temps a little towards the end of fermentation to finish things off. But I think if you NEED to do that, than you have other issues.

For your next batch do a normal gravity beer at 5 to 5.5 gallons and pitch one packet of US05. If you want a bigger beer, pitch a second packet. US05 is very forgiving and has really great attenuation. Not sure it will solve your problem but dry yeast is easier to work with and US05 is really easy in all respects.

yea, it might be that ive never made a starter. i have a bigger PM belgian saison planned next which uses wyeast 3711. this yeast is a freakin beast so if something messes up with this batch, then i know it will have to be something im doing (ie not making a starter, which i will be this time around).

thanks for the suggestions!

you may want to get a new thermometer anyways if you plan on doing lots of PM's in the future - more accurate and the biggest advantage for me is an almost instant temp read - i wasn't a fan of waiting for the floating one to come to temp

i grabbed this one on amazon a few months back and couldn't be happier
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt600c.html

what if i were to throw in some dry s-05 or something to boost it a bit? would that would make any difference at all; maybe bring it down a touch more?

Not sure if adding extra yeast will do anything, but if you are thinking about adding some more yeast, pull out a hydrometer sample, then toss a decent pinch of the yeast into your hydrometer sample. Put that somewhere fairly warm (70-80) and see if you can get the yeast to ferment anything else out of the beer. That would at least tell you whether there are fermentables left in your beer that your yeast isn't consuming or if its just a case of too many non-fermentables. The latter could be a thermometer/recipe problem, while the former is probably a yeast health issue.

i pitched a pack of s-05 yesterday anyways as i figured it wouldnt HURT the beer at all, just more yeast is all.

so far nothing from the airlock but i wouldn't expect anything either as it only has a little more to eat (if whats left is consumable). I'll give it a few more days and check again. If its not down i'll just move forward.

now here's where i question what could have actually happened since starting PMs that would change my FGs...