Altbier Gavin's Altogether Alluring Altbier

Mine looks like it's done at 1.016...a little higher than I wanted but it's a good beer. Stable for about 5 days now. I'm surprised it finished that high but I'd guess my funny mash schedule was the culprit. It was a huge starter and got lots of O2.

I'm surprised it finished that high

Yeah I'm a little bummed. Thinking about using a tiny amount of amylase enzyme, like 1/2tsp for 11 gals. Thoughts?

Brettomomyces said:

Yeah I'm a little bummed. Thinking about using a tiny amount of amylase enzyme, like 1/2tsp for 11 gals. Thoughts?

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Do it.

Get that FG down and into style.
I think the beer will be even better as a result.

OK, going to the LHBS tomorrow. This will also be a good experience for dosing a small amount of analyse and measuring the results.

Right now I'm starring at my chiller water spit out at a trickle cause the hose froze up...

Brettomomyces said:

OK, going to the LHBS tomorrow. This will also be a good experience for dosing a small amount of analyse and measuring the results.

Right now I'm starring at my chiller water spit out at a trickle cause the hose froze up...

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I'm very interested to see/hear the results. I'd expect it to get down to 1.01 with the amylase

Brettomomyces said:

OK, going to the LHBS tomorrow. This will also be a good experience for dosing a small amount of analyse and measuring the results.

Right now I'm starring at my chiller water spit out at a trickle cause the hose froze up...

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Gavin C said:

I'm very interested to see/hear the results. I'd expect it to get down to 1.01 with the amylase

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I too am interested to see what analyse does to a beer.

Brettomomyces said:

Yeah I'm a little bummed. Thinking about using a tiny amount of amylase enzyme, like 1/2tsp for 11 gals. Thoughts?

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11g... split into two fermentors? You might consider just adding AA to one of them for a nice experiment, with a control. If like the result, do it to the other. If it goes too low for taste, don't. Or, consider adding a small amount to one fermentor, and 4x to the other, just to see what happens.

You'll want to let it go for at least a week, maybe more. Enzymes in the hot mash work really fast, 15-30 minutes and they are done. But at fermentation temps, the same enzymatic activity requires days.

Regarding the amount to use, I'm not really sure. I think I used a tsp or two for 5g. I'm not sure halving that will make any difference. But maybe

slym2none said:

I too am interested to see what analyse does to a beer.

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rofl, totally blaming the iphone on that one

passedpawn said:

11g... split into two fermentors? You might consider just adding AA to one of them for a nice experiment, with a control. If like the result, do it to the other. If it goes too low for taste, don't. Or, consider adding a small amount to one fermentor, and 4x to the other, just to see what happens.

You'll want to let it go for at least a week, maybe more. Enzymes in the hot mash work really fast, 15-30 minutes and they are done. But at fermentation temps, the same enzymatic activity requires days.

Regarding the amount to use, I'm not really sure. I think I used a tsp or two for 5g. I'm not sure halving that will make any difference. But maybe

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One fermentor unfortunately, that would be a great idea though if they were split. I usually use Sankes to ferment in.

I understand that these will denature very slowly and have a pretty good grasp on enzymes from my chem/biochem in college, but there has to be SOME sort of difference from using smaller amounts, right? Based on your AE thread, I'm thinking maybe 2tsp for 11g total, basically half of what you used in that oatmeal stout. I'm also throwing in 2 tsp of BSG yeast energizer for good measure as well.

Brettomomyces said:

rofl, totally blaming the iphone on that one



One fermentor unfortunately, that would be a great idea though if they were split. I usually use Sankes to ferment in.

I understand that these will denature very slowly and have a pretty good grasp on enzymes from my chem/biochem in college, but there has to be SOME sort of difference from using smaller amounts, right? Based on your AE thread, I'm thinking maybe 2tsp for 11g total, basically half of what you used in that oatmeal stout. I'm also throwing in 2 tsp of BSG yeast energizer for good measure as well.

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WHATEVER YOU DO... make sure to come back and tell us all the gory details - thanks!

passedpawn said:

WHATEVER YOU DO... make sure to come back and tell us all the gory details - thanks!

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Oh I already did it!

2 tsp Amylase
2 tsp yeast energizer

Both BSG brand. I'm already thinking about getting a bigger bag of it cause that little jar was like $4 for not a ton of enzyme.

Originally I raised this beer up to 21C for about 4 days (probe in thermowell), roused it a few times by swirling and it still wouldn't go lower than 1.016. Right now the chamber is at 17.5C for fermentation on another beer, but it was a slow drop to 17.5C so I'm not too worried about the yeast. Last sample was still pretty cloudy from unflocced yeast as well.

I also have a batch of barley wine that went from 1.106 to 1.029 and was just a touch too sweet so I dosed that as well today with the same rate, 1tsp amylase and 1 tsp energizer per 5 gals. Yeast was 1968, ADF about 73% which is pretty good considering, I just want it dryer. The barleywine is in secondary in carboys so I can see the activity, already starting to see some airlock activity and small krausen forming on one of the carboys after about 6 hours. This is really wild.

*Edit, found a 1# bag on Amazon for $11. Wonder what the shelf life is like with this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006O93SYQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Took a shot at brewing this before I left for the holidays. I had a little bit of leftover doppelbock malt so my recipe was somewhat abridged...

5.5# Pils
1.1# Caramunich 60
1.5 oz Carafa III
2.5# Doppelbock malt

1.5 oz Liberty, 80 min
0.3 oz Liberty, 20 min
0.6 oz Liberty, 5 min

OG 1.049
FG 1.011
IBU 35

WY1007 @ 60F for 72 hours, 65F for 10 days, lagering for 2 weeks now.

This thing is awesome. Very impressed with the aroma and malty backbone for such a small beer. Such a great quaffer! Well done Gavin!

dopplebock malt? More info plz

Brettomomyces said:

dopplebock malt? More info plz

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Sure! Used a split of 75% Munich I, 20% Pils, and 5% Caramunich/Chocolate malt. So the total recipe ended up being
6# Pils
1.5# Munich I
1.25# Caramunich
1.5 oz Carafa III
And a touch of chocolate malt

Ahhh I gotcha, thought maybe it was a new varietal.

Well, here's my 3 day update: down 3 points!! I need one of them fancy finishing hydrometers, but it looks like I'm at 1.013. Also stole the sharpie trick. Body is noticeably lighter, taste is hard to judge atm cause I just had a pack of trail mix.

New Year's Day brew is carbed up. Tastes just as good this time. Just a quicker turnaround.

Sub-par phone pics





Going to let it lager some more at 34°F before bottling some for an upcoming competition. Fingers crossed.

Altbier New Year's Day Brew

Update on my brew!

It took me like 10 minutes to get a specific shot to try and highlight the color of this beer, but I did get it. There's this amazing ruby hint hiding in the background. Mine might be a touch darker than Gavin's, though I used some extra dark malts.

I put it on tap after sitting in my cold garage for a week, and then did my co2 transfer to kegs and added gelatin fining. After the first few days of true cold conditioning the taste from the Spaltz was still very strong, like anise and wood. That dropped out after a few days, and is much lighter. The malt flavor also rose after a few days of conditioning and the overall flavor of the beer is melding wonderfully. I'm terrible about waiting a few weeks for beer to condition but at the same time I love to watch a beer change and try it during this process.

Overall impression, moderate bready and grainy malt flavor, wonderful complex herbal hop flavor from the Spaltz, and an overall light and refined flavor from the fermentation. I was kind of nervous when I first tried this beer post amylase because of the strong hop flavor but it's conditioning really well. Super tasty beer, thanks again for the recipe and inspiration.

Brettomomyces said:

Update on my brew!

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Looks tasty


What was the FG on the beer after the amylase?

Gavin C said:

Looks tasty


What was the FG on the beer after the amylase?

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Sorry I never posted that here...

It went down to 1.016 from normal fermentation, and then down to 1.006 after 1 week of amylase, 1 tsp/5 gallons.

I had a party this weekend with a pretty mixed crowd, a lot of beer lovers though, and out of an IPA, a mango beer, and a nice blond, this was the fan favorite. Bottling up some soon to hit up the front range contests this spring.:rockin:

Brettomomyces said:

Sorry I never posted that here...

It went down to 1.016 from normal fermentation, and then down to 1.006 after 1 week of amylase, 1 tsp/5 gallons.

I had a party this weekend with a pretty mixed crowd, a lot of beer lovers though, and out of an IPA, a mango beer, and a nice blond, this was the fan favorite. Bottling up some soon to hit up the front range contests this spring.:rockin:

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Sounds like a hit. Thanks for the update. Hope it fares well in competition for you. Best of luck.

Hey Gavin, I was too lazy to read through the entire thread. My brew buddy is German from the region around Dusseldorf. He's super excited to try an alt. I think I'm gonna go ahead and go with your recipe, since you won the boot and all!

Have you made any changes to the original recipe? Or do you have any recommendations for me? Do you think that wlp029 would work for this style, it's the only "hybrid" yeast I have available to me? Or should I just go with a lager strain. I've got a pils fermenting right now using saflager w-34/70 (with an ideal temp range of 12-15C), that I plan on harvesting for later use, would that be a better option than the kolsch yeast?

joshesmusica said:

Hey Gavin, I was too lazy to read through the entire thread. My brew buddy is German from the region around Dusseldorf. He's super excited to try an alt. I think I'm gonna go ahead and go with your recipe, since you won the boot and all!

Have you made any changes to the original recipe? Or do you have any recommendations for me? Do you think that wlp029 would work for this style, it's the only "hybrid" yeast I have available to me? Or should I just go with a lager strain. I've got a pils fermenting right now using saflager w-34/70 (with an ideal temp range of 12-15C), that I plan on harvesting for later use, would that be a better option than the kolsch yeast?

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No changes. I've brewed it twice now.

WLP029 would likely work well. If that's what you have that would certainly be my second choice. I've not tried it with a lager yeast.

Gavin C said:

No changes. I've brewed it twice now.

WLP029 would likely work well. If that's what you have that would certainly be my second choice. I've not tried it with a lager yeast.

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Have you always done the multiple infusions + the one decoction? Or have you tried a single infusion? I do BIAB with a batch sparge, but I mash in a bucket. So the infusions would definitely generate a challenge. But then again, I do want this to be a really good representation of the style, for my brew partner.

joshesmusica said:

Have you always done the multiple infusions + the one decoction?

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Yes. Step mash and decoction both times. A single infusion at 150F would work fine I reckon.

What mash pH did you end up targeting. I was reading through the Bru'n water website yesterday and it actually said that for a malty beer one should be aiming for 5.2-5.3. I ended up having to up the acid malt to 7.2% just to get it down to 5.4 (it says if I would add just .1lbs more it would actually drop to 5.3, but I have to order my malts in .1kg increments, so it makes these kinds of things a bit more difficult in getting it 100% precise). But I also need to add a bit of calcium chloride and gypsum in order to hit the malty amber profile.

When I typed in the other malts according to your percentages, beersmith predicted the color to be above the range for the style. What do you think about the idea of substituting for carafa I, and upping the caramunich?

Here's what I was thinking in order to adjust:
Pilsen malt - 80%
Acidulated malt - 7.2%
Caramunich I - 5.6%
Aromatic Malt - 4.3%
Carafa I - 2.9%

Ended up with 45g each addition of Spalt select - 4.6%AA - at 60 min and 30 min.

Mashing at 150 that puts a predicted FG of 1.011, but I usually get slightly better attenuation than what beersmith predicts (often on purpose by either allowing the temp to drop a degree or two after 30 mins in the mash, or by mashing for 90 mins).

OG - 1.054
FG - 1.011
IBU - 37
EBC - 32

Measured pH was as planned



Original Recipe and Style guide




90% Pils was the plan for the back-bone of the recipe. Your grain-bill is very different (which may be a good thing), best of luck with it.

Gavin C said:

Measured pH was as planned

View attachment 340498

Original Recipe and Style guide

View attachment 340499


90% Pils was the plan for the back-bone of the recipe. Your grain-bill is very different (which may be a good thing), best of luck with it.

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Ok. So I'll stick with the 5.4 pH.

It's weird the discrepancy between the colors. I don't really get it. Do you think it could be because I've scaled it to a 25L batch? Yours is technically a lighter color than what mine ended up at with those substitutions. If I change everything back to the percentages in the OP and using the carafa II, I still end up with 32.1 EBC, which is 16.3 SRM.

joshesmusica said:

Do you think it could be because I've scaled it to a 25L batch? .

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No. Recipes are scalable to any size.

Your grain-bill is just for a very different beer. Example is OG. You have 1.054

Gavin C said:

No. Recipes are scalable to any size.

Your grain-bill is just for a very different beer. Example is OG. You have 1.054

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Good point. Ok, now everything is adjusted back to match the OP recipe, minus the fact that I would need 7.3% acid malt, compared to the 3.3%. That shouldn't make any difference.

SRM now - 15.7...