Toppling Goliath pseudoSue - Can you clone it?

Okay. Found some honey malt. Planning on steeping 6 Oz of that and 6 Oz of flaked oats together before boil. Does that sound about right to you guys? Any suggestions?

So I was able to get the honey malt. Planning on steeping 6 Oz of that and 6 Oz of flaked oats together before the boil. Does that sound right? Any suggestions?

Damian13 said:

So I was able to get the honey malt. Planning on steeping 6 Oz of that and 6 Oz of flaked oats together before the boil. Does that sound right? Any suggestions?

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flaked oats needs to be mashed with 2 row..... I don't think you will get anything out of that by itself. Honey Malt = very good. that will be perfect.

Braufessor said:

flaked oats needs to be mashed with 2 row..... I don't think you will get anything out of that by itself.

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I was just using them for the mouthfeel and head retention, not really caring about getting any fermentable sugars out of it. Do you think this is a bad idea?

Damian13 said:

I was just using them for the mouthfeel and head retention, not really caring about getting any fermentable sugars out of it. Do you think this is a bad idea?

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I don't think it is a "bad" idea.... just not sure if you will really get anything out of it. I don't think it will hurt in anyway. Might add something.

I will try it out.

Here is an article I found on potential downside of steeping oats without mashing with 2row to supply enzymes to break them down..... Now, I would still take this article with a grain of salt as you are talking about 6 ounces of flaked oats here. But, this explains why a flaked adjunct is generally "mashed" with a base grain containing enzymes for conversion.

http://byo.com/hops/item/2029-are-the-concerns-about-steeping-oats-and-flaked-barley-warranted

You could always sub some of your extract with a little 2row to steep with your oats, no?

You could always sub some of your extract with a little 2row to steep with your oats, no?

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What modification would you make, I am not really expert with conversions.

WiscoBrewer said:

You could always sub some of your extract with a little 2row to steep with your oats, no?

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Well, I think strictly speaking this wouldn't accomplish the same thing. Steeping two-row and mashing it would happen at different temps, and if you're steeping it at 170 you're not getting the conversions necessary to help with the oats. I think the idea would be to do a small mash, at standard mash temps, with both two row and the oats. Just look at it as steeping for 30min at a lower temp, 154 or so. But technically some would argue what you'd really be doing there is a short mash.

What I would try is: for every half pound of flaked oats add one pound of standard two row. "Steep" this in a small pot at 154, with perhaps a gallon of water or so for 30 minutes. Then pull the grains and add your DME or LME according to your recipe, and add the rest of your water of course, and proceed as you would normally. You'll just have to add a bit less extract to account for the small, short mash you did. Otherwise you'll overshoot your OG a little.

Okay, I ordered all the ingredients for the beer and they are on the way. I decided not to mash for this one as its my first beer in 4 years and I want to keep it simple (Planning to move to BIAB after this batch and try the exact same clone for my first beer). I am planning on steeping some honey malt and flaked oats for mouthfeel but I was wondering if adding more Wheat DME (i will have some left over) instead might do the job. I have read that it helps with mouthfeel and head retention but I wonder how drastically it will impact the flavor. Any thoughts on how upping my wheat due from .25lb to 1lb might impact the flavor? Should I stick to my steeping plan? Thanks.

I would steep the honey malt for sure. You want that in there.

I would either use the flaked oats or I would add some wheat DME...... maybe .25 or something. If you add too much you are just going to push the OG higher and out of the range you were shooting for.

If you add too much you are just going to push the OG higher and out of the range you were shooting for.

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Upping the wheat DME would actually get me to the right OG since I am leaving out the CARA. I just don't want to do it if it will affect the flavor profile negatively. I also don't mind just adding the .25 since a lower OG is not a problem for me.

I don't think it will drastically effect the flavor profile. So, if it is going to put you in the right area for OG, I would add it. I would steep the honey malt, and I would leave out the oats.

Just received a pound of Citra hops to use just on this beer! Can't wait!

Brewing tonight hopefully. Do you guys think 3 or 6 of honey malt for steeping? I've been reading it can be pretty overpowering.

I think you'll be fine with 6oz. I've read this too, and I didn't get that at all. I don't have my laptop but I had 3.5% which I think was 8oz in my recipe.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Pseudo Sue Clone

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.075
Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.060
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 5.85%
IBU (tinseth): 53.32
SRM (morey): 7.18

FERMENTABLES:
3.15 lb - Maris Otter Extract - Light
4 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light
0.75 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Wheat


STEEPING GRAINS:
4 oz Honey Malt-Steeping

HOPS:
0.25 oz- Warrior, Type: Pellet, AA:??, Use: Bittering 60 min, IBU:??
2 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 11.94
2oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 8.76
2oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.5, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 21.72
2 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.5, Use: Dry Hop at the 7th day
3 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.5, Use: Dry Hop at the 10th day

YEAST:
Wyeast - WL 007
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 74%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F


This is what I am doing tonight. Does the hop schedule look fine? Is .25 of Warrior enough for bittering(I have more)? Any last minute tips?

That hop schedule looks fine to me for an all grain batch, but I believe you have lower utilization with extract. Maybe up to 20% less? There won't be much if any difference in the flameout and whirlpool hops but the boil hops will be. Do you use Beersmith or something similar? If so you could just match IBU's for you extract/partial boil with the all grain/full boil recipe.

I think you look fine. I use more bittering, (.75 Warrior)...... but, I don't add any Citra until flameout, so your later additions should make up for that. You are in the ballpark of what you are looking for I think.

WiscoBrewer said:

Psue Psue Psuedio
Here is what I've done the last two times and it is ridiculously close to the original Psue, and better than what's been coming out of Florida.

Mash 152*F 90min
Boil 90min

100% RO water w/additions
Mash - .35 gram/gal Gypsum
1.17 gram/gal Baking Soda
1.10 gram/gal Calcium Chloride
0.50 ml/gal Lactic Acid
Sparge - .35 gram/gal Gypsum
1.10 gram/gal Calcium Chloride

93% Two Row
3.5% Flaked Barley
3.5% Honey malt
.25oz Warrior 60min
2oz Citra 10min
2.5oz Citra 5min
2oz Flame Out
5oz Whirlpool @ 175-180*F for 30min
Dose with WLP007 starter @ 68*F
Drop 2oz Citra in primary at day 7 (68*F) I spin the carboy every night to get them all saturated and soaking, gently though.
Drop 2.5oz Citra in primary at day 10 (68*F) By now it looks like a carboy of pea soup, when I give it a spin.
Cold crash to 34*F There's quite a bit of hop material floating around and layering the top, it all usually falls out by the time it gets to 34*F
Rack to keg on day 14
Carb for 7 days I've never bottled this, so I'm no help here.
Grain to glass in 21 days.

I know the Warrior, but it works. I've tried no bittering hops and Citra for bittering, and this is best of the three imo.

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~5 gallon batch here? OG target?

Wanting to order the citra ASAP and try this recipe before brew season is limited.

So, I brewed the beer saturday night and everything went well except for two things:

1. While I was pitching the pure pitch pack part of the package fell on the wort surface as I was cutting it. Picked it up with minimal contact but am still a little worried about contamination.

2. Pitched the yeast at 68 but due to drop in temp in Austin, my fridge, which is in my garage won’t go above 60 degrees. I pitched the yeast Saturday night (technically Sunday morning) at 1:00 a.m. and as of this morning there was no activity on my airlock.

For now I am waiting and crossing my fingers. Hopefully by the time I get home from work I see some bubbles. If so I will let it ferment for a couple of days at the low temp and then take it inside so that it slowly rises to room temp. I just hope to see some activity when I get home.

Any thoughts on either of these two things?

If it is still sitting at 60 degrees, I would get it somewhere warmer when you get a chance. That is on the cold side of things and will make for a sluggish start. Once it is going, the heat of fermentation will help bring the temperature up a few degrees. So, if ambient temperature is 60 and fermentation is well under way, that should bring the wort up to 64-66 for sure. But, if it is sitting there doing nothing at 60..... I would try to get it to mid 60's for sure.

Okay, so I decided to crack the bucket open a bit to peek inside. I know some people are against doing this but Im having an inpatient type of day. There was a thick white foam on top and it smelled delicious, so I am taking these things as good signs that fermentation is happening.

Two questions:
-I decided to leave the bucket in the fridge since I saw what I assume was signs of fermentation. Do you guys think that was the right call or should I still move it indoors to increase the activity?

-Since I opened the bucket, should I expect to have to wait way longer to see any airlock activity because of the co2 I left out?

And I guess one more question: Was opening the bucket too risky a move in terms of risking infection?

Thanks.

Ignore your airlock - your beer is fermenting (whether you see it or not

Do you have a way of monitoring the temperature of your fermenting beer?? Is there one of those "stick on" fermometers on your fermenter that gives temp?

I would be inclined to leave it alone for 3 days or so if it is fermenting actively where you have it. You can be assured that the temperature of fermenting beer is 4-6 degrees warmer than the air temperature around it.

Ideally, your beer (not the air) is in the 66-68 degree range or so right now. After about 3-4 days of initial fermentation, I like to put my beer in ambient temperature of about 68-70 as fermentation starts to slow, that warmer temp will help it finish out and will keep the beer temp in the 68-72 range.

Sounds like it is rolling along nicely though - so, I think you are on the right track.

Hi Guys,
So my beer has been fermenting nicely these last few days. The adhesive thermometer started at 61 and has gone to 64 over the last couple of days. It seems that I might be at the point, based on some of the posts I have read on this thread, where I want to slowly start ramping up to about 68-70 degrees. I am having trouble getting the temperature in my fridge higher than it already is and my indoor temperature is 72. If I take my bucket indoors I really won’t have a way to gradually increase the temp, it will be an all at once change in ambient temperature. Also, 72 seems a little too high considering the wort might get even hotter than this due to fermentation. Am I better of continuing and finishing off at a low fermentation temperature or do I risk off flavors? I had originally planned to ferment at around 66 and slowly raise to 70. Any insights are appreciated.

Most of active fermentation will be done at day 3-4 or so. At that point, there is little chance that fermentation will really generate much heat. I would give it about 4 solid days at that 64 and then take it inside. It will not go up all at once even if the room is 72. It will still take a day or so for sure for the beer to really get up to room temp. At that point, you are looking at 5-6 days into fermentation and 70-72 is just fine for finishing things out. By that time, there will be little or no heat being generated by fermentation, so it will be pretty close to room temp.

Most of active fermentation will be done at day 3-4 or so. At that point, there is little chance that fermentation will really generate much heat. I would give it about 4 solid days at that 64 and then take it inside. It will not go up all at once even if the room is 72.

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So I got home from work and even though my fridge was still at 62, my fermometer sticker was reading 68 and the bubbles on the airlock where going faster than they where this morning. Should I try to bring the fridge temp down a few degrees to get the wort temperature in the 64 range during active fermentation or do you think I should just leave it be for now?

.

30Bones said:

~5 gallon batch here? OG target?

Wanting to order the citra ASAP and try this recipe before brew season is limited.

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6 gallons to make up for hop absorption
OG 1.063
70% efficiency
Farmhouse Brew Supply has some great smelling Citra right now.

Damian13 said:

So I got home from work and even though my fridge was still at 62, my fermometer sticker was reading 68 and the bubbles on the airlock where going faster than they where this morning. Should I try to bring the fridge temp down a few degrees to get the wort temperature in the 64 range during active fermentation or do you think I should just leave it be for now?

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This is why I like carboy's, you can see what the krausen is doing. If it's at rising/high krausen, which I'm betting it is, it's likely going to maintain the temp you're at, and will be fine. Let it go for a few more days until krausen drops or temp starts to drop, then bring inside and let rise to 70-72. You may want to take a gravity reading at the same time to compare to a cpl days later.

Cool. I was planning on doing my first dry hop addition saturday night.I might just do it when I move it inside and take that first gravity reading, or should I wait for fermentation to complete before adding the hops?

Damian13 said:

Cool. I was planning on doing my first dry hop addition saturday night.I might just do it when I move it inside and take that first gravity reading, or should I wait for fermentation to complete before adding the hops?

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When you move it inside and open it for a gravity reading would be a perfect time for the first DH addition.

I would leave it too. temps in the 68 range are fine. I always like to avoid "Dropping" the temperature during fermentation - that can stall or slow a ferment. Ideally, it just keeps going up until it is finished. At some point here in the next day or two it will stall around 68-70 and start dropping a couple degrees, that is usually when I move mine...... as soon as I see that 2 degree or so drop in temp. 62-64-66-68-69-69-67 Move...

I agree on the dry hopping..... hydrometer reading..... The less you mess with the beer, the better.

So, after being at 70 all of last night and this morning, I came home from work to find the bucket temp at 68 with decreased airlock activity. I'm guessing it's time to move it indoors? I wasn't planning on adding the first dh until Saturday night but since I will be taking a reading I guess adding the dh a couple of days early won't make a huge difference?

I would move it in. But, you could still wait till saturday to dry hop/ take reading if you want..... no big deal there.

I would move it in. But, you could still wait till saturday to dry hop/ take reading if you want..... no big deal there.

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Cool. Sounds like a plan.

After 8 days in the primary I finally took a gravity reading and added my first round of dry hops. The beer is at 1.014. I tasted the sample and it tasted both a little too bitter and a little too sweet. I am guessing that the excess bitterness was because the hop particles are still in suspension (it was a very cloudy sample) and it will fade. I am hoping the sweetness mellows out a little as well, although I am not too sure on that one.

Damian13 said:

After 8 days in the primary I finally took a gravity reading and added my first round of dry hops. The beer is at 1.014. I tasted the sample and it tasted both a little too bitter and a little too sweet. I am guessing that the excess bitterness was because the hop particles are still in suspension (it was a very cloudy sample) and it will fade. I am hoping the sweetness mellows out a little as well, although I am not too sure on that one.

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Since your ferment started late, I wouldn't be surprised to see your FG drop another couple of points, which should lessen the sweetness. Plus conditioning / carbonating / chilling will change the taste as well. I wouldn't worry. I'm sure it's going to taste fantastic.

I'm planning to visit the brewery during my Christmas vacation to Iowa. Maybe we can work out a swap - some of yours for a bottle of the real thing. One of my sons lives in Austin and could facilitate the swap.

Since your ferment started late, I wouldn't be surprised to see your FG drop another couple of points, which should lessen the sweetness. Plus conditioning / carbonating / chilling will change the taste as well. I wouldn't worry. I'm sure it's going to taste fantastic.

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Cool. I guess I will wait and see.

I'm planning to visit the brewery during my Christmas vacation to Iowa. Maybe we can work out a swap - some of yours for a bottle of the real thing. One of my sons lives in Austin and could facilitate the swap.

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Awesome. Actually Braufessor was really generous and hooked me up with a bottle of Pseudo along with some other great beers including some his homebrew. That being said I would love to have another bottle of pseudo to be able to do side by sides with at different stages of my clone. Mainly, it would be great to get feedback on my beer so I would totally be interested in working something out.