Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

This is my first attempt and it has finally cleared. So now that I am ready to bottle, what kind of bottles can/do I use? Also, I haven't tasted it yet at all so do I need to carb it or backsweeten, if so how?

Sorry but I just couldn't go thru all 220 pages to find my answers.

tia,
g

ggriffi said:

This is my first attempt and it has finally cleared. So now that I am ready to bottle, what kind of bottles can/do I use? Also, I haven't tasted it yet at all so do I need to carb it or backsweeten, if so how?

Sorry but I just couldn't go thru all 220 pages to find my answers.

tia,
g

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<sarcasm> Why not? We all did, you can't be a real brewer unless you read all 220 pages while sitting in a snow bank both ways uphill. </sarcasm>

IF you followed the recipe, you should not need to backsweeten, if you changed the yeast then you might.

Mead is not normally carbonated, it is always a still mead I see in competitions, even when listed as petulant, it looks still to me. I will not be carbonating mine.

Use any ol' bottles you want to. I have some mead in those clear ginger ale bottles that are 10oz. (Get the replacement screwcaps from home brew store.) I just ordered a bunch of 8oz swing tops for this batch. Mead is strong, so I am going with smaller serving sizes, your mileage will vary.

sablesurfer said:

<sarcasm> Why not? We all did, you can't be a real brewer unless you read all 220 pages while sitting in a snow bank both ways uphill. </sarcasm>

IF you followed the recipe, you should not need to backsweeten, if you changed the yeast then you might.

Mead is not normally carbonated, it is always a still mead I see in competitions, even when listed as petulant, it looks still to me. I will not be carbonating mine.

Use any ol' bottles you want to. I have some mead in those clear ginger ale bottles that are 10oz. (Get the replacement screwcaps from home brew store.) I just ordered a bunch of 8oz swing tops for this batch. Mead is strong, so I am going with smaller serving sizes, your mileage will vary.

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I made it thru about 10 pages and then this


I didn't change anything in the original recipe so it looks like I am good to go!

Thanks for the help SS!

Hi. I would like to try this mead too. But i can't find the proper yeast. Is it ok if use a normal vinification yeast? Is it better a cerevisae or a bayanus?

noblex said:

Hi. I would like to try this mead too. But i can't find the proper yeast. Is it ok if use a normal vinification yeast? Is it better a cerevisae or a bayanus?

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The proper yeast is bread yeast. If you use something else you are making a completely different mead. A wine yeast will make something much drier and very different than this recipe is intended to make.

Update, I got these bottles from speciality bottle: http://www.specialtybottle.com/glassbottles-2.aspx?gclid=CO-cmf-RycUCFYsCaQodykgACw They were the lowest price with good online reviews. I got 24 shipped to midwest for $95, a lot of money to me, but an investment since they become part of my brewing equipment.

Nice lookin' bottles. My buddy drinks Newcastle so I had him save his clear bottles for me. I bottled some JAOM in that and it looks nice.

On another note it looks like my JAOM from October '13 took Best in Show at a state homebrew competition. Cool!

My batch is a week old, not much of a sediment build up at the bottom and seems to be fermenting rather slowly compared to my other mead's. Not that this is an issue, curiosity got the better of me. I have taken readings and added a little nutrient (Not so ancient, my bad!). Before i did this i thought i would taste it, i was pleasantly surprised! Looking forward to this finishing!

ThatChefGuy said:

My batch is a week old, not much of a sediment build up at the bottom and seems to be fermenting rather slowly compared to my other mead's. Not that this is an issue, curiosity got the better of me. I have taken readings and added a little nutrient (Not so ancient, my bad!). Before i did this i thought i would taste it, i was pleasantly surprised! Looking forward to this finishing!

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JAOM requires patience, lots and lots of patience. Once you put the recipe together, leave it alone for 4 months. Do not touch it, pet it, take it for walks, etc. At 2 months the fruit should drop, then it will start to clear, once it has, rack it and let it sit for another month or two.

Im going to have to be that guy and mention that the fact that there are 221 pages on this thread indicates a whole lot of people didnt read the recipe. New brewers are hardwired to worry, I get that and I was a major offender myself, but there are no questions one could ask that werent answered in the recipe itself.

Read the recipe. Follow the recipe. Go on with life...

sablesurfer said:

The proper yeast is bread yeast. If you use something else you are making a completely different mead. A wine yeast will make something much drier and very different than this recipe is intended to make.

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Last time i used my supermarket bread yeast, the alcool tolerance was less than 6% :'(

I wanna make a mead really similar to this, but i don't think those yeasties will ever be able to brew even half of that honey...

Someone can correct me, but I feel sure the finished product ends up well north of 6%. as I understand it there are additional nutrients coming from the orange rind (and probably the raisins too) that get it up into wine territory

It won't be able to get it all though, and that's kind of the point. This thing finishes out very sweet

I always thought this came out 10%+

noblex said:

Last time i used my supermarket bread yeast, the alcool tolerance was less than 6% :'(

I wanna make a mead really similar to this, but i don't think those yeasties will ever be able to brew even half of that honey...

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I had a really sarcastic response written earlier today when I was in a bad mood from work. But.....

...where are you from? If you are in US then red star is what I used and my mead is WELL over 6%. The heat would put it in the 11-13% range. Next one ready to go and I will take gravities this time.

Next, what did you do "last time". Did you follow THIS recipe? Have you done any research on this recipe and meads in general? I have and the orange and the raisins are vital to the success. If you didn't then the ph wasn't right and there were no nutrients for the yeast, look it up.

What I had written this morning was...<sarcasm>"what, you think this entire thread is just to lie to you?"</sarcasm"

sablesurfer said:

I had a really sarcastic response written earlier today when I was in a bad mood from work. But.....

...where are you from? If you are in US then red star is what I used and my mead is WELL over 6%. The heat would put it in the 11-13% range. Next one ready to go and I will take gravities this time.

Next, what did you do "last time". Did you follow THIS recipe? Have you done any research on this recipe and meads in general? I have and the orange and the raisins are vital to the success. If you didn't then the ph wasn't right and there were no nutrients for the yeast, look it up.

What I had written this morning was...<sarcasm>"what, you think this entire thread is just to lie to you?"</sarcasm"

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uh? Slow down pal. I'm at about 16000km from US, in Italy. Here I tryed some times ago the common bread yeast (It's called "Pane degli Angeli", Angel's bread in in english) with a cyser and cider and in both cases the results weren't good, this yeast die really fast due to alcool. I made some research in italian hb forums and someone said that this yeast cannot go above 3-4%
That's why I asked. I can find a tons of HB yeast online, for beer, wine and mead too. But I've never seen that fishermanthing used in the first page.

<Sarcasm>Also, "you think this entire thread is just to lie to you?" Nope, i think a forum is a place when peaple come to talk, ask questions and receive polite answers, otherwise it's a blog.
Learn the difference.</Sarcasm>

To be fair, I have used non-American bread yeasts in the past (namely DiGo from Croatia) and have gotten really good results.

Slovenia borders Italy and Croatia borders Slovenia, so I would think DiGo would be available? (more a question than a statement).

If there's a reason why your JAOM is failing, its because you didn't follow the directions EXACTLY. A lot of people have repeated this. Joe Mattioli didn't just slap this recipe together and hope for the best, he tested and re-tested until he came up with one that works. I don't think it matters what brand of bread yeast, I've done several with several brands with no problems at all, and all have been way over 6%. They have all come out sweet, which is the intent, the fruit has dropped on time, (2 months), has cleared by 4 months, is drinkable by 6 months. If you are looking for something that takes less time, go to the liquor store and buy you mead. Unlike beer, this is a wine, it takes time, lots and lots of time. The aging process mellows out the flavors, dissipates the "heat" and you wind up with a good product. Start today, and by this time next year, maybe even February or March, you'll have a good honey wine. If you push it, bad results happen, and people fill forums with complaints about theirs or someone else's recipe. Take your time, follow recipes exactly, once you put the airlock on it, don't mess with it unless you intend to feed it, degass it, rack it or bottle it. When it comes to JAOM, it is designed so that once you seal the airlock, you don't touch it until its done, some 4 to 5 months from that point. So relax, don't fret, some will clear sooner than others, I've had that happen twice, but I get the same results some 6 or 7 months later...a good, sweet honey wine that goes perfect with a cheese platter.

noblex said:

uh? Slow down pal. I'm at about 16000km from US, in Italy. Here I tryed some times ago the common bread yeast (It's called "Pane degli Angeli", Angel's bread in in english) with a cyser and cider and in both cases the results weren't good, this yeast die really fast due to alcool. I made some research in italian hb forums and someone said that this yeast cannot go above 3-4%

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Hey, that is why I asked, your first post seemed to imply it, but your profile doesn't say. So yeah, no idea what bread yeast you might have there.

I included the sarcastic part so as not to leave anyone guessing.

But, being in Italy, i wouldn't be surprised at all that you might have access to a variety of yeasts that we wouldn't in America. We probably still have the same strain that came over with the pilgrims. LOL.

Anyway, next time give us an indication where you are looking and others on the board can give you the better answers, like the one just posted. Good luck, hope you find a yeast that works.

Thank you

We have a shop of "high end (=overpriced)" food stuff, it's called Eataly, I found a bread yest of (they said) superior quality (=3x price), I'll try with that, and I'll make you know about what I'll get


Last question: in the first page (forgive me, I read only that atm) it is said i can use the honey i want. Do you have any suggestion on which type to chose, or anyone will just work fine?
I was thinking at half of "many flowers" (I'm sorry i don't know the translation for it, but it is the one made of every flower out there) and half from a particular kind of flower (maybe cytrus, or orange, or eucaliptus....)

noblex said:

Thank you

We have a shop of "high end (=overpriced)" food stuff, it's called Eataly, I found a bread yest of (they said) superior quality (=3x price), I'll try with that, and I'll make you know about what I'll get


Last question: in the first page (forgive me, I read only that atm) it is said i can use the honey i want. Do you have any suggestion on which type to chose, or anyone will just work fine?
I was thinking at half of "many flowers" (I'm sorry i don't know the translation for it, but it is the one made of every flower out there) and half from a particular kind of flower (maybe cytrus, or orange, or eucaliptus....)

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Wildflower is the word you're looking for . I say your choice seems like a very wise one. The fun thing about choosing honey is, if you like eucalyptus than you will be pleased with eucalyptus honey mead, etc. I even REALLY liked my buckwheat honey batch, even though the color put some people off.

So basically Im just saying use your imagination and go by what you like.

And again... try to find DiGo yeast. Its yeasttastic.

Ok, thank you.

I just have one more question.
I'm reading these pages and i read that this mead needs much aging to be really good to some tartness that, reading the variant "Maom" is given by the white part of the orange. So I was thinking to remove it using only the orange zest and the pulp, peeling away the white **** (as I've always done with lemons when i was into liquors). Do you suggest to use a different quantity of honey if i remove the white part? I make this question because i wanna make a jaom variant with a bread yeast of my country and the orange without white, but in maom, which should be similar, use half of the honey!!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=50201

my recipe should be (following jaom method):
5l (1.32 gal)
2kg (4,4 lib) honey
1 full orange and a third of another one
1 clover
1 stick of cinnamom
1 piece of nutmeg
allspice doesn't exist here.

water to reach 5l


with maom advice it would drop to 1.3kg (3.8lib)

Two more starting tonight. Found both a light color and dark 'wildflower' honey at the local market last weekend. More raisins this time and I diced them a bit first.

Edit - don't see much about gravities on here, but then honey is variable. tonight's OG's are 1.114 and 1.112.

Edit two - not sure if this should go on front page, but one packet of Red Star bread yeast (USA) has two teaspoons of yeast.

noblex said:

Ok, thank you.

I just have one more question.
I'm reading these pages and i read that this mead needs much aging to be really good to some tartness that, reading the variant "Maom" is given by the white part of the orange. So I was thinking to remove it using only the orange zest and the pulp, peeling away the white **** (as I've always done with lemons when i was into liquors). Do you suggest to use a different quantity of honey if i remove the white part? I make this question because i wanna make a jaom variant with a bread yeast of my country and the orange without white, but in maom, which should be similar, use half of the honey!!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=50201

my recipe should be (following jaom method):
5l (1.32 gal)
2kg (4,4 lib) honey
1 full orange and a third of another one
1 clover
1 stick of cinnamom
1 piece of nutmeg
allspice doesn't exist here.

water to reach 5l


with maom advice it would drop to 1.3kg (3.8lib)

Click to expand...

If you're using clove, you don't need allspice. The pith of the orange does offer flavor characteristics, the bitter helps balance the sweetness. Honey seems excessive, typically its 3.5 pounds to 1 gallon US. I've done it with 3.2 pounds just fine. When you say 1 piece of nutmeg, I hope you're not referring to one whole nutmeg. I usually break off a piece that equals about 1/8 tsp and crush it. Nutmeg is a very strong spice, like cloves and allspice.

JDWebb said:

If you're using clove, you don't need allspice. The pith of the orange does offer flavor characteristics, the bitter helps balance the sweetness. Honey seems excessive, typically its 3.5 pounds to 1 gallon US. I've done it with 3.2 pounds just fine. When you say 1 piece of nutmeg, I hope you're not referring to one whole nutmeg. I usually break off a piece that equals about 1/8 tsp and crush it. Nutmeg is a very strong spice, like cloves and allspice.

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Ok thank you very much, the problem is only because i'm not familiar with american and english imperial unit so I'm asking 246789 times to be sure not to use too much or not enaugh.

The recipe says 3.5 pounds (1pound = 1 lib???) for 1 gallon, I'm making 5 liters, wich are roughly 1.3 gallons, shouldn't I use 1.3*3.5 pounds = 4.4 pounds of honey?

Here it goes my first batch of JAOM, i followed the original recipe after all.



I used 1.9kg of unpastourized honey from a local beekeper, half wildflowers (the black one, and trust me, THAT is the clolor of wildflower honey, the pale **** you are being sold in super market is not real honey. Anyway the photo makes it a little too black, the real color is a dark brown like ebony or so) and half linden (it has a particular taste, try it if you find it, i really like it), 1 giant orange, 1 whole clover and a little piece, nutmeg, cinnamom, and raisins.

I boiled 3l of low-sediment super market water, let it cool up a bit and then added all the ingredients, exept the orange, i sliced the orange in +- 20 slices and put into the fermentor. Now it's cooling to room temp (24°C) and then I'll add the bread yeast.
Og is something above 1025, maybe 1030 or so, my densimeter goes from .990 to 1.100 only



Can I make it ferment in my basement (17-18°C) or it is better to keep it here in my home? Thank you

I recently made my first 1 gallon batch of mead 10 days ago and now all the ingredients are all decomposing. I know stuff decomposes but is this just a normal thing and nothing to be worried about?

I also used an HPLC to determine my sugars and alcohol and this is what i got for results.

Cellobiose: 23.1167 g/L
Glucose: 27.7718 g/L
Xylose: 90.8419 g/L
Latic Acid: 0.2630 g/L
Glycerol: 9.2519 g/L
Acetic Acid: 9.4070 g/L
Alcohol: 72. 3866 g/L

The mead has not been bubbling anymore for the last two days and I was wondering if I need to add more yeast because I have quite a bit more sugar left. I am not too sure how well this yeast does with xylose but I believe glucose goes first before they are even interested in the xylose. What do you peeps think?

Some pics would be helpful, but I would be surprised if there were any decomposition going on after 2 days.

Did you follow the recipe exactly or did you make some changes?

If you used bread yeast like the recipe called for, the leftover sugar is there by design. The intent is for it to be sweet at the end without having to backsweeten.

odubbs25 said:

I recently made my first 1 gallon batch of mead 10 days ago and now all the ingredients are all decomposing. I know stuff decomposes but is this just a normal thing and nothing to be worried about?

I also used an HPLC to determine my sugars and alcohol and this is what i got for results.

Cellobiose: 23.1167 g/L
Glucose: 27.7718 g/L
Xylose: 90.8419 g/L
Latic Acid: 0.2630 g/L
Glycerol: 9.2519 g/L
Acetic Acid: 9.4070 g/L
Alcohol: 72. 3866 g/L

The mead has not been bubbling anymore for the last two days and I was wondering if I need to add more yeast because I have quite a bit more sugar left. I am not too sure how well this yeast does with xylose but I believe glucose goes first before they are even interested in the xylose. What do you peeps think?

Click to expand...

Yes it will decompose. If you have it sealed tight with an airlock, you're fine. Don't worry about not seeing any bubbles, it is still fermenting. Staring at the airlock will drive you nits, give it a few months, and don't touch it.

noblex said:

Ok thank you very much, the problem is only because i'm not familiar with american and english imperial unit so I'm asking 246789 times to be sure not to use too much or not enaugh.

The recipe says 3.5 pounds (1pound = 1 lib???) for 1 gallon, I'm making 5 liters, wich are roughly 1.3 gallons, shouldn't I use 1.3*3.5 pounds = 4.4 pounds of honey?

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Looks fine. Your carboy looks fine too. Now, just have a lot of patience, leave it alone for at least 4 months.

Followed the instructions (GASP) about not needing to stir/swirl the yeast into the wort(?) and just sprinkled dry right on top.

Bubbling away happily now for last few days, not explosive or fast, but pretty good. Yay.

sablesurfer said:

Followed the instructions (GASP) about not needing to stir/swirl the yeast into the wort(?) and just sprinkled dry right on top.

Bubbling away happily now for last few days, not explosive or fast, but pretty good. Yay.

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DO NOT touch it for the next 4 months. Don't take it for walks, to movies, out on a date, do not water it, trim it, or bathe it. Don't give it a manicure, haircut or facial. Leave it alone!

JDWebb said:

DO NOT touch it for the next 4 months. Don't take it for walks, to movies, out on a date, do not water it, trim it, or bathe it. Don't give it a manicure, haircut or facial. Leave it alone!

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HAHAHA....this is my third and forth batch...I am such an old hand at this point.








....however a date would have been fun.

I made a 5 gallon batch with 15 pounds of orange blossom instead of the almost 18 according to the recipe and 5 oranges last January. It came out really good, like a white wine, just a hint of sweetness. Popped a bottle open last week, was gone in 2 days, will open another one in a few months. I might do another 5 gallon batch as soon as my cider is done.

Consuming a bottle as I type sent to me by another member, delicious! I bottled a couple gallons of mead today so I have the room, I think I see this in my future.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1433206564.707199.jpg

I had my batch, 5 gallons, sitting in the carboy for about three months. Some of the oranges had fallen to the bottom and the liquid itself is extremely light and clear. I bottled it in about 20, 750mL wine bottles and corked them. I realize after I bottled them that I didn't think about making sure all the yeast was 'deactivated/dead.' Has anyone had any problems with bottle bombs that could help me? I just want to know whether I should open them all back up to make sure I kill the yeast. First batch of mead, newbie to the homebrewing ways. I just simply used Fleischmann's Bread Yeast since it was my first time.

If everything dropped and it was crystal clear at bottling and you used bread yeast, you don't have anything to worry about.

I just racked over my batch that sat for almost 2 years with cherries added instead of grapes the other day and it tastes amazing. I have been lazy on racking my meads lately. The batch I made using mandarin oranges from my garden has more bitterness than usual which seems to be from the variety of orange. It is also over a year old and needs to be bottles.

The longer I have been brewing, the less inclined I am to bottle things, but I need to get to it for these guys.

rideincircles said:

The longer I have been brewing, the less inclined I am to bottle things, but I need to get to it for these guys.

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Straw? I mean it is only a gallon.....

Hi, I think I'm having a problem with my JAOM.
I started it on the 26th of may and I stored it in my basement thinking about leaving it for 3-4 months.. So, yesterday i went in my basement for another reason and I found a surprise: the jaom was already cleared, all the fruit were on the bottom and i could easily read a newspaper through the carboy.

So I took a champion. FG 1006 (SG 1130+-). I used a local baking yeast (since here in Italy i'm no able to find the original of the recipe) i took from Eataly.

The problem is that the taste and the smell is (as predictable) awful. It's something like fermented concentrated orange zest without any sugar or honey in it. I think I'll rack it, add sugar, and let it age in the carboy for some month....

Any suggestion?

You could always back sweeten with a little honey. I had a batch a while ago which turned out like that (turns out I'd used too much yeast by mistake), but after the extra honey, it came out delicious! Obviously campden and potassium sorbate too ;-)