Keg Carbonation Pressure

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tdiowa

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I have been struggling and being able to get the proper carbonation when I carbonate my kegs. I have tried the set it and forget it and the force carbonating both with mixed results. The last two kegs I have seemed to have the proper carbonation with minimal foam.

My question to the forum is that I am trying to come up with a standardized way of carbonating and being able to monitor the carbonation level. I would like for the forum to review my methods and tell me if I am doing it right.

1. Cool the keg to 35 - 40 degrees

2. Attach the CO2 gas to the out side of the keg.

3. Attach a keg pressure monitor gauge to the in side.

4. Turn the gas on to the appropriate carbonation level for the beer to be and let it sit.

5. Check daily and when the pressure gauge on the in side says what ever the appropriate pressure should be turn off the CO2.

6. Hook up the CO2 to the in side and the beer side to the out and pour.

So far this has worked. My question is having the keg pressure monitor gauge on a accurate way to monitor carbonation levels?

TD
 
Your over thinking. Don't hookup the co2 to the outside of the keg there's no reason to do so.

Simply set the psi gauge on your regulator to the temp of the beer and the volumes of C02 you want for the style. Don't touch again until the keg is empty.

It has no choice but to be correctly carbed.
 
That is very frankenstein! And it won't work. The pressure gauge on the "In" side will read what your reg is set at VERY quickly, but that won't mean that your beer is carbonated.

Do what wildwest said. Gas on the Gas In side, set reg to desired pressure, and leave it!
 
tdiowa said:
I have been struggling and being able to get the proper carbonation when I carbonate my kegs. I have tried the set it and forget it and the force carbonating both with mixed results. The last two kegs I have seemed to have the proper carbonation with minimal foam.

My question to the forum is that I am trying to come up with a standardized way of carbonating and being able to monitor the carbonation level. I would like for the forum to review my methods and tell me if I am doing it right.

1. Cool the keg to 35 - 40 degrees

2. Attach the CO2 gas to the out side of the keg.

3. Attach a keg pressure monitor gauge to the in side.

4. Turn the gas on to the appropriate carbonation level for the beer to be and let it sit.

5. Check daily and when the pressure gauge on the in side says what ever the appropriate pressure should be turn off the CO2.

6. Hook up the CO2 to the in side and the beer side to the out and pour.

So far this has worked. My question is having the keg pressure monitor gauge on a accurate way to monitor carbonation levels?

TD
Click to expand...

Carbonation occurs in the confines of pressure, temperature and time.

Look up a handy carbonation chart noting the temperature of your beer. Select what carb level you want (cited in "volumes of co2"), then find the pressure required to achieve that level and set your regulator to that pressure. Hook up the gas and wait 2 weeks minimum.

You can't throw a gauge on the keg to find out the carb level while the co2 is still absorbing into the beer. You'll be simply measuring headspace pressure. The only way the gauge will show the carb level is if you disconnect the gas source and wait until the head pressure and dissolved CO2 partial pressure has fully reached equilibrium. It takes time.
 
Thanks Bobby, You have given me another idea. My problem has always been to figure out when it is properly carbed. I will now just shut off the CO2, let the head space settle and then check my gauge for the proper carbonation level.

Thanks Everyone for the suggestions.

TD
 
tdiowa said:
Thanks Bobby, You have given me another idea. My problem has always been to figure out when it is properly carbed. I will now just shut off the CO2, let the head space settle and then check my gauge for the proper carbonation level.
Click to expand...

Slaps head and walks away.
 
tdiowa said:
Thanks Bobby, You have given me another idea. My problem has always been to figure out when it is properly carbed. I will now just shut off the CO2, let the head space settle and then check my gauge for the proper carbonation level.

Thanks Everyone for the suggestions.

TD
Click to expand...

Forget about that guage. Cool the keg, connect co2 and set to desired pressure. Walk away and set an alarm clock to go off in exactly 7 days. After the alarm goes off, enjoy your beer.
 
Well, that, but add another 7 days minimum.

If you put 15psi on the headspace of a keg, that beer isn't carbed to 15psi. The surface area between liquid and gas is small enough that it takes quite a lot of time for the partial pressure of CO2 to reach the head pressure. Many people say it's a week, I say it's a little more than 2 weeks. Whichever.

Find your chart pressure, set it and forget it. There's nothing special you need to do when it's ready.
 
I'm sitting here wondering how you guys are getting carbed beer after 2 weeks under the set-it-and-forget-it method. I gave up shaking kegs recently. I filled 2 corney's with 2 different 5 gallon batches. I set them both to about 10.5 PSI, at about 36 degrees. I gotta say it's been 2 weeks and I've got watery uncarbonated beer.

I think the idea of shaking kegs with 30+ psi is ridiculous, un-measurable, and I won't do it...I'm just curious why most people are carbing in 2 weeks and I haven't got $hit :)
 
bmbigda said:
I'm sitting here wondering how you guys are getting carbed beer after 2 weeks under the set-it-and-forget-it method. I gave up shaking kegs recently. I filled 2 corney's with 2 different 5 gallon batches. I set them both to about 10.5 PSI, at about 36 degrees. I gotta say it's been 2 weeks and I've got watery uncarbonated beer.

I think the idea of shaking kegs with 30+ psi is ridiculous, un-measurable, and I won't do it...I'm just curious why most people are carbing in 2 weeks and I haven't got $hit :)
Click to expand...

There's a lot of different variables. Sometimes two weeks is good sometimes it takes 3. Maybe your used to drinking overcarbed beer, that was my problem.

It's impossible to have a beer hooked up for 2 weeks and not have any carbonation.
 
wildwest450 said:
There's a lot of different variables. Sometimes two weeks is good sometimes it takes 3. Maybe your used to drinking overcarbed beer, that was my problem.

It's impossible to have a beer hooked up for 2 weeks and not have any carbonation.
Click to expand...

Yea I apologize for exaggerating in saying I have NO carbonation. If i could measure the volumes of CO2 I'd have been happy to provide numerical facts to back up my rant haha

I guess the only way to describe it would be to sayy it is somewhere in between not carbed at all and cask ale carb levels.

You're overcarbed theory cracks me up because it's the reason I'm not shaking kegs anymore. But in all honesty these beers are barely carbed.

What are some of the "lots of different" variables you have in mind? That could point me towards a potential problem. I've tested my ranco temps against a lab thermometer and it reads correctly. My kegs have all been pressure tested and do not leak.

Thanks!
 
Another dumb question: you are leaving the gas connected, right? Have you checked to make sure the lid is sealed and you don't have any leaks anywhere? Maybe 10.5 PSI is just low for your taste.

Set and forget is best. When I'm in a hurry (which I usually am), I set the pressure for 25 PSI or so for a couple of days. Then I bleed off the excess and set it at 12 PSI. Decent carbonation in about a week.
 
Lodovico said:
Huh? Not possible for most beer styles. Do you only brew Milds?
Click to expand...

I brew most all styles. I don't understand why you guys are saying it can't be done. It's the way I've been doing it for years.

I've also carbed kegs at 40 degrees and 26 psi for 2-1/2 days. Same result.
 
ChrisS68 said:
Another dumb question: you are leaving the gas connected, right? Have you checked to make sure the lid is sealed and you don't have any leaks anywhere? Maybe 10.5 PSI is just low for your taste.

Set and forget is best. When I'm in a hurry (which I usually am), I set the pressure for 25 PSI or so for a couple of days. Then I bleed off the excess and set it at 12 PSI. Decent carbonation in about a week.
Click to expand...

Yea man it stays hooked up at all times, and I've pressure tested my kegs at many levels within the homebrew kegging range.
 
bmbigda said:
What are some of the "lots of different" variables you have in mind? That could point me towards a potential problem. I've tested my ranco temps against a lab thermometer and it reads correctly. My kegs have all been pressure tested and do not leak.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

What temp do you carb at? What beer styles are you carbing?
 
bja said:
I brew most all styles. I don't understand why you guys are saying it can't be done. It's the way I've been doing it for years.

I've also carbed kegs at 40 degrees and 26 psi for 2-1/2 days. Same result.
Click to expand...

If you brew most styles, why are they all carbed to the exact same volumes of Co2?
 
bmbigda said:
My keezer is set to 38. The two styles I have on right now are a Rye IPA, and an Irish Red. They were both set at 10.5 psi 2 weeks ago and forgotten about until last night.
Click to expand...

Wow, At 38f they should be close to good. Why do you say their not carbed? Is it by taste, by head? Just because there's not 3" of head and their not exploding in you mouth like pop rocks, doesn't mean their not carbed.:mug:
 
wildwest450 said:
If you brew most styles, why are they all carbed to the exact same volumes of Co2?
Click to expand...

Right now I've got a Dortmunder, an APA, a Vienna Lager and an Irish Red. Thet're all carbed the same because I don't have multiple regulators and this carb level works best across the board for me.
 
bja said:
Right now I've got a Dortmunder, an APA, a Vienna Lager and an Irish Red. Thet're all carbed the same because I don't have multiple regulators and this carb level works best across the board for me.
Click to expand...

We'll, your results are one in a million. If your happy, i'm happy.:)
 
wildwest450 said:
Wow, At 38f they should be close to good. Why do you say their not carbed? Is it by taste, by head? Just because there's not 3" of head and their not exploding in you mouth like pop rocks, doesn't mean their not carbed.:mug:
Click to expand...

Lets say it was @38F, 10.5 psi for 11 days. Then between days 11 and 14 the temp in the keezer was 70 degrees. My theory right now is that before I left for the weekend I had a beer line caught in the freezer lid and it stayed open. I had the rest of that room held to 90 all weekend for a berliner.

who knows! I'll have to wait it out, thanks for the help.
 
I have a 4 keg keezer and only 1 regulator. What is working for me is 12 psi for 1 week. At 37 degrees at 12 psi my co2 volumes should be about 2.62 which is high side for a lager or ale that calls for 2.20-2.60 and low side for my wheat beers that calls for 2.60-4.0 so I have a happy medium for those. Guess my stout I have brewing will just be over-carb'd as they call for 1.50-2.20. Oh well, until I get another regulator it will have to do. I'm sure it will get drank!! :)
 
bja said:
I brew most all styles. I don't understand why you guys are saying it can't be done. It's the way I've been doing it for years.

I've also carbed kegs at 40 degrees and 26 psi for 2-1/2 days. Same result.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is trying to argue here and we're not just "saying it can't be done", it's the science and fact behind it.

You can't properly carbonate 5.5 gallons of beer at 10 PSI in 1 week with the set it and forget it method.

No one here is attacking you with opinions, it's just a fact. It might be carbonated to a level that you like, but 95% of beer styles will not be properly carbonated with this method and duration of time. :mug:
 
Everyone's perception of appropriate carb levels is different. My assertion is that the set and forget method takes nearly 3 weeks to attain the volumes you see on the chart. I don't care what the temp or pressure is exactly, but to hit the volumes on the chart just takes that long.

If you look on the chart for your beer temp at 38F and presume you'd want to carb to say 2.38 volumes, that takes 10psi for about 3 weeks. One may taste a sample at 12 days and say, yup, that's perfectly carbed. Okay... great, but it's not at 2.38 volumes yet. You just have an impression that something like 1.8 volumes is "carbed'.

The same can be true in the opposite direction. You pick a "volume of co2" that you think you want. You wait 3 weeks and pour. Hmm, undercarbed. Ok, well, you probably just like 3 volumes of CO2 instead. Either that or you have a leak or a highly unbalance dispensing system that blows all the CO2 out of solution by the time you drink it.
 
whatever....in 1 week to 1 1/2 weeks at 12 psi set and forget mine is carb'd as hell and leaves a head all the way down to the bottom of the glass....peace out :)>-
 
rflinn68 said:
whatever....in 1 week to 1 1/2 weeks at 12 psi set and forget mine is carb'd as hell and leaves a head all the way down to the bottom of the glass....peace out :)>-
Click to expand...

Yeah, head to the bottom does not equal full carbonation is the point that is being made. That is as much a product of the proteins and hops as it is carbonation;)
 
A couple weeks ago I posted on the thread about my set-it-and-forget-it issues I was having. I recently solved this problem and I figured I'd share for future reference. What I did wrong may be common knowledge.

My issue was that after 3 weeks I was still significantly undercarbonated. I have no leaks, and I was setting to 10.5 psi at 34 degrees, like the charts say. My conclusion is that the beer has a tough time carbonating that close to freezing. I like very cold beer so I had it at 34. Once I adjusted temp and pressure accordingly it was perfectly carbonated after a day. I've since slow-carbed a new keg @38 and it only took about 10 days til I was happy with the carbonation.

So my theory is that C02 has a tough time dissolving into beer at close to freezing temps. This makes sense intuitively so I'm going with it. Could even go as far as to say that higher temps allow for faster carbing, which may explain why some people on here are reporting happily carbed beer in only 1 week.
 
Getting my keg carbonation levels right has been the least successful part of my brewing process.

I brew a lot of high gravity beers that start in the 1.095 range. They spend about 2 weeks in the primary and then if its getting dry hopped about a another 2 weeks in a secondary. If its not getting dry hopped I leave it in the primary until I get consistent gravity readings - typically about 3-4 weeks total. I then rack it to a keg and it sits in storage for between two to nine months before getting tapped. I boil between 1 oz and 3 oz of priming sugar with a little water in the microwave and add it to the keg. I have 4 primary fermenters and 5 secondary fermenters with a total of 9 kegs; 6 in storage and 3 on tap.

I used to not add any priming sugar and force carb but that shakes up any trub at the bottom of the keg and it takes a long time to settle. Most of my kegs may be well over 50 years old. I replaced all of the seals but I have tapped a few that did not seal during storage and were dead flat. Even worse, I tapped a few where the pressure was so high that it blew beer up into my gas lines. I have had a few bottle bombs back in the late 90s but I don't want to think about what a keg bomb would look like. I would guess the pressure relief valve is supposed to act as a safety but with the age of these things who knows.

I just picked up 6 pressure gauges and gas disconnects from The Keg Connection and connection fittings from ebay. Its been a huge help. I can now see exactly how much head pressure is in each of my storage kegs at all times. If its too low I can fix a seal and or add some CO2. If its climbing up too high I just crack the relief valve and blow off some of the pressure.







It worked out to a little over twenty bucks each. Here are the parts:
Regulator Gauge 0-60
Disconnect in Gas Ball Lock 1/4 mfl
Flare Swivel Union
Flare x Female NPT

The The Keg Connection has been great - I wonder if they would want to offer these assembled. I have seen some that have a adjustable blow off valve but they only go up to a few psi and are used for filling kegs not carbonating. It would be cool to have one that could be used to prevent over carbonating.
 
We can make these a product. I spoke to a supplier this morning that produces about every brass part imaginable and we were not able to find an single part to connect these, so it would have to remain two parts. I am ordering a supply of both and then we will add this part next week. I have actually made this exact setup before for a completely different application (sprayer),but I never thought of using it to monitor force carbonation.
Thanks for the suggestion!


rdavidw said:
Getting my keg carbonation levels right has been the least successful part of my brewing process.

I brew a lot of high gravity beers that start in the 1.095 range. They spend about 2 weeks in the primary and then if its getting dry hopped about a another 2 weeks in a secondary. If its not getting dry hopped I leave it in the primary until I get consistent gravity readings - typically about 3-4 weeks total. I then rack it to a keg and it sits in storage for between two to nine months before getting tapped. I boil between 1 oz and 3 oz of priming sugar with a little water in the microwave and add it to the keg. I have 4 primary fermenters and 5 secondary fermenters with a total of 9 kegs; 6 in storage and 3 on tap.

I used to not add any priming sugar and force carb but that shakes up any trub at the bottom of the keg and it takes a long time to settle. Most of my kegs may be well over 50 years old. I replaced all of the seals but I have tapped a few that did not seal during storage and were dead flat. Even worse, I tapped a few where the pressure was so high that it blew beer up into my gas lines. I have had a few bottle bombs back in the late 90s but I don't want to think about what a keg bomb would look like. I would guess the pressure relief valve is supposed to act as a safety but with the age of these things who knows.

I just picked up 6 pressure gauges and gas disconnects from The Keg Connection and connection fittings from ebay. Its been a huge help. I can now see exactly how much head pressure is in each of my storage kegs at all times. If its too low I can fix a seal and or add some CO2. If its climbing up too high I just crack the relief valve and blow off some of the pressure.







It worked out to a little over twenty bucks each. Here are the parts:
Regulator Gauge 0-60
Disconnect in Gas Ball Lock 1/4 mfl
Flare Swivel Union
Flare x Female NPT

The The Keg Connection has been great - I wonder if they would want to offer these assembled. I have seen some that have a adjustable blow off valve but they only go up to a few psi and are used for filling kegs not carbonating. It would be cool to have one that could be used to prevent over carbonating.
Click to expand...
 
bja said:
I force carb all of my kegs and don't have this problem.
Click to expand...

I seem to only have trub shaken up in my big (over 9% abv) beers, which is currently my thing. I could just let it sit for a week chilled on pressure but I don't wish to have one of my three taps down that long. Thanks for the feedback.
 
KegconnectionLLC said:
We can make these a product. I spoke to a supplier this morning that produces about every brass part imaginable and we were not able to find an single part to connect these, so it would have to remain two parts. I am ordering a supply of both and then we will add this part next week. I have actually made this exact setup before for a completely different application (sprayer),but I never thought of using it to monitor force carbonation.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Click to expand...

Awesome! They have been I big help for me.
 
rdavidw said:
I seem to only have trub shaken up in my big (over 9% abv) beers, which is currently my thing. I could just let it sit for a week chilled on pressure but I don't wish to have one of my three taps down that long. Thanks for the feedback.
Click to expand...

Maybe you need more taps.
 

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