Hole Size for Weld-in TriClamp Ferrules

What size hole should be made in a vessel to weld-in a 2" triclamp ferrule?
What about a 1 1/2" triclamp ferrule?

I've searched the internets far and wide for this sort of advice and have come up with zilch. HELP!


Thanks,
Adam

Are you actually welding it or silver soldering it? If your welding it, you can do the OD of the fitting. If your silver soldering, you'll want to go a tad smaller. I did 1 3/8 on the 1.5" fittings and flare it. Worked great.

I'm not actually doing the welding (I have a trained and skilled stainless welder doing that for me) but I have to cut the holes in the vessel. I borrowed a 2" GreenLee conduit punch that should make a really nice, clean round cut but I'm unsure whether this is the correct size hole for a 2" TC.

-Is the outside diameter of a "2" TC ferrule" 2 inches? (I know the rated size is of the tubing side itself and not the TC connector but I'm not sure whether the rated size is for the inside diameter or the outside diameter.)


-I saw a couple people cutting holes in their kettles for 1" TCs and using a hole that's smaller than 1" -is this because they weren't actually welding the TC in but were just soldering it?


Adam

Another question about welding these: In order to allow my folder-over (non-ripple) electric immersion element (ULD) to remain fully inside the kettle (instead of the folder-over part sticking into the TC connector) -I'm planning on using the low profile TC connectors -I've heard that these are difficult to weld and that the whole TC ferrule can become SUPER hot and that some sort of heat sink might not be a bad idea. -Could/ Should I have the welder try to weld the TC connector while another piece of TC tubing and the TC clamp is on to help dissipate the heat through this large volume of metal? -Would this help with the overheating issues?



Adam

If the welder gets the fitting too hot than he is doing it wrong.

Maybe this will help:

http://www.brewershardware.com/how_to_use_tri_clover_fittings.html

rvklein said:

Maybe this will help:

http://www.brewershardware.com/how_to_use_tri_clover_fittings.html

Click to expand...

Although there is definitely some good general information about triclamp/triclover fittings on that page, including clarification of the pipe size vs. the flange size on triclover fittings, it doesn't address my question, which was: What size hole should you cut into a kettle to accommodate a 2" TC ferrule?

-I've seen some posts that seem to imply that conduit punches cut a slightly larger hole than they're actually rated for so that a 2" greenlee punch would actually make a hole larger than a 2" TC ferrule and I'd run into significant problems when it comes time to weld the ferrule into the kettle. I'm looking for clarification for what size punch is appropriate to accommodate a welded-in 2" TC ferrule. This question is focused on the practical application and is soliciting EXPERIENCE that anyone has with this scenario or using conduit punches to make holes.


In the same way "if the TC ferrule gets too hot, you're doing it wrong" isn't useful information. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that short TC fittings are much harder to weld than the longer ones and that it may take longer to weld them resulting in more heat -there's an increased risk to overheating a short TC so I'm looking for a mitigation to this risk. I've seen welders mention the use of some sort of "heat sink" in this particular instance but I have no idea what "heat sink" means in the context of welding stainless. I'm curious whether a TC clamp and another piece of stainless connected to the short TC ferrule would help to disapate heat and act as a heat sink in this particular instance. -This question is focused on the above theoretical scenario.


Adam

wow. ok. My suggestion would be for you to email Darrin @ brewer's hardware in the above link. I believe he'd be able to answer your question regarding hole size.

If your welder is trained and skilled at welding stainless then why are you asking those questions?
Your welder should already know what he needs to do.

By the way, the 1 1/2" ferrule that I just measured is 1.505". So a 2" is going to be something in the same neighborhood (2.005")

Here's good diagram which gives the standard thickness & dimensions of 316 ferrules which can be used to gauge hole sizes.

http://www.geordi.com.au/ferrule dimensions.htm

dmfa200 said:

By the way, the 1 1/2" ferrule that I just measured is 1.505". So a 2" is going to be something in the same neighborhood (2.005")

Click to expand...

Thanks! That really helps, now I just need to track down the exact size of a hole made by a 2" greenlee conduit punch and I'm in business! -Much appreciated.


Adam

rvklein said:

Here's good diagram which gives the standard thickness & dimensions of 316 ferrules which can be used to gauge hole sizes.

http://www.geordi.com.au/ferrule dimensions.htm

Click to expand...

Jackpot! Great link and every measurement possible. Love it.


Adam

Pretty much all of your sanitary fittings out there are going to be the OD of the size called out with a wall thickness of 16ga or .065. The larger sizes like 4" and above can jump up to a 14ga or .083 wall. When calling out a 2" ferrule or 90 elbow it's going to be 2"OD on the weld side. All manufacturers have a tolerance guidline they try to follow so their tooling will vary depeneding on each manufacturer or where they puchase form.

biertourist said:

Thanks! That really helps, now I just need to track down the exact size of a hole made by a 2" greenlee conduit punch and I'm in business! -Much appreciated.


Adam

Click to expand...

Adam,

did you end up making this welded joint and what size hole did you end up using? If you have any pictures of the end result, that would be great.

I have planning to do the same things with a 1-1/2" ferrule and need to cut the proper size hole...

In the end did you use a 2" hole to match the OD of the ferrule or smaller hole to match the ID of the ferrule? And since you were welding, you did not flare the hole, correct?

dmfa200 said:

If the welder gets the fitting too hot than he is doing it wrong.

Click to expand...

He definitely did it wrong; both vessels horrifically warped; false bottom won't fit without being ground down.... Choose your welder VERY carefully..


Adam

fafrd said:

Adam,

did you end up making this welded joint and what size hole did you end up using? If you have any pictures of the end result, that would be great.

I have planning to do the same things with a 1-1/2" ferrule and need to cut the proper size hole...

In the end did you use a 2" hole to match the OD of the ferrule or smaller hole to match the ID of the ferrule? And since you were welding, you did not flare the hole, correct?

Click to expand...

We used a hole saw that was the same OD as the ferrule (easy when you have it in front of you) and set the whole thing up on the drill press; it was pretty easy and painless.

No flaring of the hole as we were welding.

The cutting of the holes was the easy peasy part; the welding; that's another story entirely.


Adam

Sorry to hear that biertourist.

I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass in my previous comments.

It's just that I've heard so many people claim to be, or know someone that is an "experienced" or even "expert" welder, all I can do is roll my eyes.

Finding a good welder is like winning a raffle, except if you don't win, you also get kicked in the nuts.