Still a noob, non-visible fermentation??

Ok, so maybe the professionals around this forum can help a rookie out a little. I have done lots of research (books and this forum) and know what to expect, however my current beer is showing poor activity in it's early stage as opposed to my last batch. I am currently on my 3rd batch. Yesterday I brewed my first high OG beer (1.070), it' a Black IPA extract kit. Everything I did throughout the process seemed right on the money and I am seeing no visible signs of fermentation. I know, I know, just be patient and take another hydrometer reading after 3 days if no activity is noticed. Can you guys take a look at a few of my steps and tell me if anything I did seems wrong? Thanks in advance!!

I made/used my first yeast starter: used 1/8 tsp yeast nutrient (added to boil), 1 1/8 C DME, 1.47 L water, and White Labs California V yeast. Boiled for 15 minutes, chilled in ice bath to 70°, and pitched yeast in. Covered with (sanitized) foil, and put it on the stir plate with a vigorous circulation for 21 hours prior to pitching. (I sanitized everything meticulously BTW)

Yesterday as brewing was almost complete, I added my wort to 2 gal of water in the carboy after chilling to 70° in an ice bath/immersion chiller. I topped it off to 5 gallons. I strained a large amount of the hops out while transferring to the primary with a funnel and strainer. I aerated the unfermented wort with pure oxygen for apprx 1 minute, then thiefed out a sample to check gravity and temp. prior to pitching the starter. The temperature was good, so I pitched the starter in. (I sanitized everything meticulously again BTW)

I decided to not refrigerate the starter since I was using it the next day. The starter stayed on the stir plate for almost 21 hours on the dot. It stayed at perfect temperature as well. Since I pulled it right from the stir plate, I had nothing to "decant" so I pitched the entire thing (after boil evaporation, the starter was smaller in size). I wasnt worried about clarity or of off-tastes since its a black IPA.

P.S. I used Mr Malty to determine what water/dme/yeast ratio to use on the stir plate.

The beer has been in the primary now for only 15 hrs. I put a blow-off hose on right away instead of using a 1 piece airlock. I have no Krausen and am only seeing 5-6 bubbles a minute coming out of the blowoff tube's water bucket. Last beer I brewed had a ferocious fermentation almost immediately right out of the smack-pack. The krausen bubbled over my 6 gal carboy into the airlock within 7 hrs causing me to have to install the blowoff. This IPA is showing weak signs.

It seems to me like I have done everything right, but I am still new at this so that's what brings me to request this forums expertise. I'm definitely not to proud to ask for help, LOL. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I realize I probably have a case of "noob anxiety", just not sure what to do at this point other than wait (impatiently).

First and foremost

Fermentation can take 24 to 72 hrs to show visible signs. And by visible signs we don't mean airlock bubbling. So never panic if you don't see fermentation before 72 hours on normal days.

THE ONLY VISIBILE SIGN OF FERMENTATION THAT IS VALID...is numbers on your hydrometer.

Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer.
Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate).

The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Revvy, do you have that reply saved somewhere to just copy and paste it?

HHP said:

Revvy, do you have that reply saved somewhere to just copy and paste it?

Click to expand...

I'm sure the misspelled words would be fixed if it was saved.

Rev,

WOW, that was probably the quickest reply I've ever received PERIOD on any forum, so thank you for that! I will definitely read your suggested blog post. However, I have read many of your posts in the past (I've been an "inactive member" of this forum for about a month now, despite my periodic reading even before joining).

All of your comments have set my anxieties to rest a little. Since I cannot see visible fermentation (i.e. krausen, airlock action, blowoff hose bubbling) should I wait 1 week or so and then take another hydrometer reading to see if the yeasties are eating?

And if the hydrometer readings haven't decreased, can/should I pitch a smack pack or vial?

P.S. I always check the gravity after I have chilled the hydrometer vile of beer in the fridge to 60°F for accuracy. Is this procedure correct?

I always read my horoscope first, and then check the phases of the moon to be sure I'm fermenting...

Besides that, I check with a hydrometer about 7 days after pitching if I forget the above steps...

But mostly I just let it do it's thing for ~3 weeks in primary before even checking with the hydrometer...

Your gravity WILL have decreased in 72 hours to a week...Yeasts just don't "NOT WORK" these days. That's an old idea from 30 years ago, not the reality these days. Given enough time the yeast does what it needs to do.

I am going to give you my standard rant about how, for the most part, the idea of "bad yeast" is really bogus....


Of god knows how many batches of beer I have made....I have never had fermentation not start, or a beer not turn out ok, and I have never ever ever had to add more yeast to a beer.

Except for infecting a starter due to poor sanitization, it really really is hard for yeast NOT to do what they do naturally.

That's how we can make a huge starter from the dregs of a bottle of beer...we let the viable (living) cells reproduce, and we feed them incrementally, and they continue to reproduce.

Seriously most LHBS know enough about what they are doing in terms of proper yeast storage, same with suppliers, it doesn't take a genius these days to know how to stick liquid (and dry yeasts usually) in a fridge, and ship in bulk in a styrofoam cooler.

We're talking billion dollar corporations (the yeast labs, and that's what they are LABS) and they aren't going to risk their rep by letting their suppliers and stores that carry their stuff , handle it improperly.

Besides...Yeast IS hardier than most newish brewers wanna give them props for...I mean You can't say that THIS YEAST was stored "properly" and yet, they managed to make a batch of beer with it.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-08/ff_primordial_yeast

If we can make beer with that....even the tiniest viable glop in a barely smacked pack, is going to work as well.

Gang I can't say this enough;

Unless you bought liguid yeast through the mail in the heat of summer, or added your yeast into boiling wort. your fermentation will happen.

Yeast just don't not work anymore, that is an idea that came from the bad old days before homebrewing was legalized in 1978 when yeast came in hard cakes that travelled in hot cargo holds of ships ...And then sat under the lid of blue ribbon malt extract for god knows how long on grocery stores shelves.

But since 1978 yeast science has been ongoing and the yeasts of today, wet OR dry are going to work in 99.9% of the situations we have, if you give them the time to do so.

But every noob who starts an "my yeast is dead thread" just really pertpetuates a fear that has come from way back then, they got it from Papazain and other brew books written Thirty or more years ago, and were told horror stories of those yeasts, and it influenced their writing, which influence nervous noob brewers as well. AND he influenced Palmer and other book writers, who passed that yeast doubt onto generations of brewers.

And then, most of the time, you new brewers then freak each other out!!!! You see an "infection" or "Not fermenting" thread title, or 10 on a given day and most of you don't even read the story behind it...you just see a dozen yeast is f-d up threads...and then believe my yeast has the potential to be f-d up.

But as the guy who answers those questions on a daily basis and finds out that no hydro reading was taken, nor has it been 72 hours, and THEY (not you) ARE going by airlock bubbling- AND when they do take a hydro reading or pop the bucket lid, they see that there was a krausen....and most of the time they actually post back, to say they were being paranoid, and fermentation DID happen.

But to someone who actually doesn't follow up on those threads, they think that yeast is so damn fragile....when it is the brewer's nerves that are.

But Unless you bought yeast through the mail in the heat of summer, or dumped it in boiling wort 99% of the time your yeast will do it's job...no matter what the title of many threads APPEAR to say.

Yeast handling and growing is a science, AND a BUSINESS, EVEN DRY YEAST GANG, they are all grown in labs, not fly by night operations (that's why the whole argument about dry being sub-par to liquid is really idiotic)..and with the internet, and books, and magazines, including this months BYO btw, even the most inbred LHBS employee SHOULD and probably does know how to properly handle and store yeast prior to selling it to you.

Yeast rarely lets us down... Stop bashing my yeast friends!!!

Rev, I'm curious man, how many words a minute are you assaulting that keyboard at?

Seriously most LHBS know enough about what they are doing in terms of proper yeast storage, same with suppliers, it doesn't take a genius these days to know how to stick liquid (and dry yeasts usually) in a fridge, and ship in bulk in a styrofoam cooler.

Click to expand...

LOL, it really isn't rocket science is it?

I knew what I was doing up to the point of noticing a lack of fermentation, and after that, instead of making "guess-stimations" on my own I turned for advice. And I won't deny the urge of getting sucked into the "Forum World". It's very easy to do. It's a matter of distinction. Determining credibiilty within your source is obviously important'e! LOL... So with that in mind, I always err to the side of caution with the things I read online.

However, you have definitely cleared up my weary lack of knowledge when it comes to the yeast. I will keep you guys posted on the results of bottled beauty. And thanks again Rev... Your advice will be spread throughout the (dirty) Wyoming town I happen to reside in, Cheyenne.

There are very few true "problem threads" on here, because in reality there really are truly very few problems in brewing. It isn't rocket science....you lay out the proper tools for your yeast (make your wort), maybe throw an orgy for them a few days ahead so they multiply (make a starter), make sure their workspace is clean (sanitize) then you dump them in their new factory and lock the door (pitch yeast and put an airlock on) and walk away.

They want to make alcohol for us...it's the sole purpose of their existence- They want to eat all that sugar, pee alcohol and fart co2....

New brewers aren't aware of this, but we're not in charge, the yeast are and they've been doing this for at least 40 million years, even long before we understood this, understood germ theory, or had college classes on making beer.

They don't look at recipes, or calendars or anything else...they just do their job, and we have to trust them.

There are actually very few true problem threads on here....most of the "problems" are not with the beer or with the yeast....but with the brewer's perception of what they think the yeast should be doing or more likely their impatience.

There really are very few failures on here.

When you are brewing take the "worst case scenario" that you've read in Papazian or Palmer off the table.....It's unlikely that is what's going on.

This is what I tell folks who are trying to help new brewers out on here....

Start with the assumption that nothing is wrong...THEN start looking at what the poster is saying and look to find out where the new brewer's perception that something is wrong is flawed, and prove why. Sometimes you need to ask questions, but usually the clues are right there...

"My beer's not carbed" 99.999% of the time the new brewer is opening before 3 weeks, or storing them below 70 degrees.

"My yeast is dead" or "There's no activity" the op is referring to airlocks NOT real signs of fermentation liken gravity drops...OR it's been less than 72 hours, so he hasn't passed the window of lag time.

"My fermentation has started again" usually means that he's disturbed the fermenter in some way, OR there's been an enviornmental change and his airlock has starting up again.

"I racked to secondary and my beer has something growing on top now" or "floating on top now" either he's racked too soon and the beer is re-krausening And HE'S NEVER SEEN KRAUSEN BEFORE SINCE HE BREWS IN A BUCKET, or it's yeast rafts.

"My fermentation is stuck" He usually means his airlock has stopped bubbling, or has slowed down, like it normally does.....

"My beer tastes crappy" usually means he opened it less than three - 6 weeks and his beer is green.....

And 99.99% of the time, these are the correct answers. But note, in NONE OF THESE is there actually a problem with the beer or the yeast....but with the brewer.