Mash Efficiency that bad?

i've tried to ramp up to all grain, but have still held onto partial mash. AFter searching around and using the conversion of .75 LME and .66 DME for each lbs. of grain, i've taken all-grain recipes and converted some of the grain to extract- usually keeping a serving of LME (3.3 lbs.) and using a pound or 2 of DME. As a result, i am mashing with 4-5 lbs of grain in a converted 5 gallon cooler. I figured the use of extract would ensure my efficiency was pretty good. The opposite has happened.
I am getting nearly.008-.010 less OG. Mash temp has seemed stable (150-155 depending on what i'm shooting for and keeping w/i 2* for 60 minutes). I've stirred, drained, recirculated. placed enough sparge water (167-170*)to cover grains by an inch, stirred the mash, then fly sparged for about 30-45 minutes, keeping the grains covered the entire process. Then the boil....

On a side note, anytime i plug in a partial mash recipe into beersmith after converting some extract for grain, the ESTIMATED OG is usuaully nearly .010 higher than the estimated OG of the all-grain recipe. Confused yet? In other words, i take an all-grain recipe w/ an OG of 1.056, convert some grain to extract (.75 LME/ .66 DME) and beersmith gives me an estimated OG of 1.066, but when i perform "my" partial mash, my OG is only 1.048- 1.050.

Aside from the "go fully all-grain" option, which i'll probably do anyway, what the hell is going on???

I buy crushed grain from online suppliers (Austin, Mid-west), i also sparge using calc's based on beersmith

What do you have your efficiency set for in Beersmith? Maybe you have the efficiency set higher than you should.

I don't fly sparge, but there are a couple of things that might be an issue. One is "covering the grains by an inch" seems like an inexact measurement and adding water at only 170 degrees probably isn't high enough to do a mash out. Add enough nearly boiling water to bring your grain bed up to 168. (Beersmith does this calculation for you). Think of doing .5 gallon per pound in your sparge, and do it slowly. If you want to extract all of the goodness you can out of the grain, sparge until your runnings are just a hair over 1.010.

I've never done this with 5 pounds of grain, but I think that would be a way to start.

Can you post your recipe?

How much water are you using? Any top off water?

Do you take gravity readings along the way? First running, preboil, etc?
The problem may not be efficiency but dilution.

You know, efficiency is a very touchy thing. There are a number of variables that can have a significant impact. The first thing that jumps out is the purchase of pre-crushed grain. Crushed grain goes downhill fast. This is something that should be done no more than a day or two before you brew (preferably 5 minutes before you brew). You probably aren't getting as much out of it as you expect because you are expecting more than it can deliver even under ideal conditions. Next, sometimes the brewing software estimates grain to have a higher yeild than it really does. It does the calculations thinking you get 35 points per pound per gallon (PPG) when in actuality, the grain really only has the potential for 31 or 32 PPG. Both of these conditions will give you a lower gravity than you expect.

To fix this, you can lower your efficiency in beersmith or lower the extract potential of the grain a few points until beersmith gives you an answer that jives with what you actually see in your brewing.

I wrote a fairly lengthy discussion about this on my website. You can read it here. I discuss some of the "myths" about efficiency and some tips on how to improve consistency and improve overall system efficiency. I hope it helps.

Prosit!

tnlandsailor said:

Prosit!

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Ahoy! Welcome back stranger!