Frustrated Home Brewer

I am a relatively new home brewer. I've done partial mash but no all grain yet (soon hopefully) and I think i had my first homebrew-epiphany... After hours, and hours, and more hours of research on the webs (as im sure most "newbrewers" do) I realized how much of homebrewing is taken WAY too seriously. I feel like the guys on youtube (and such sites) that post video after video of trying to get the perfect clarity from their beer are missing the point...

That is to say, there are a lot of homebrewers out there dedicated to perfecting total professional grade beer and immense brewing apparatuses. They are searching for perfectly clear professional grade beer OR insanely complex brewing systems with computer controlled valves and pumps etc. Maybe it's just me but I think partaking in homebrew is to indulge in non-comercial-grade beer. That's the point of homebrewing. (to me, anyhow)

Now, there is a lot to be said about perfecting your craft and producing product worthy of pride. However, there is a very thin line that exists. If a brewer is concocting homebrew focused on putting those beers up against a commercially available brew, then what's the point? The commercial beer is always going to be superior in the craft due to the science and technology (ultimatly money$) involved in producing a commercial brew.

Sipping on a homebrew, one can celebrate the inconsistencies bottle-to-bottle. One can relish in the fact that they are consuming more B vitamins because their brew hasen't been filtered. One can share the stories with friends about horrible home brew nightmares along with incredible brew success. One and celebrate the fact that there are a handful of people in the entire population of the world that will ever tase that exact variation of brew. Most importantly, one can share a product of crafting a brew with one's own hands. Those feeling will never be part of cracking even the tastiest Guinness, Steam Beer or Boulevard Wheat.

Home brews are apples and commercial brews are oranges. I feel like homebrewing has soul. Some brewers seem to loose track of that along the way with their $500 mash tuns and conical fermenters....

Sorry for the rant. Just up late and wanted to put some thoughts on paper (digitally) and see if this struck a chord with any of my Brothers in Brew...

Sláinte

Commercial grade is a loose.term. we homebrew to veer away from THE commercial beer companies and to go beyond what we can find or what they can make...however, we don't want subpar beer. Commercial grade means consistancy, high quality and the ability to reproduce the results. Now you're saying, well the commercial company has ****ty beer BUT their quality is great as far as production and consistancy. That is what we want. We want to make a beer that we love and be able to make ot again exactly the same and we want to be able to experiment with them without having to worry about the minute details that a more complex system would take care of for us....some also use it as a stepping stone towards opening their own brewery.

That said, i don't use computers or vast electronics because i personally like being as involved as possible...it make me appreciate the beer more. I do however have a homemade 3 burner stand with a pump and homebuilt keggles and mlt.

that setup sounds great! i hope to have something similar in the future. I guess my point was just to rant...

did you document your build at all?

Your comments definitely resonate with me.

This site, and others, are great sources of information to help brewers at all stages of the hobby. However, sometimes people can get really hung up on the equipment and methods employed by some of the more experienced brewers here and elsewhere.

Most people get into brewing because they love beer, and making your own is a really interesting way to enjoy beer even more. However, not everyone's goal is going to be to reproduce commercial beers.

Especially early in the hobby, the goal for a homebrewer should be to get basic processes down pat: sanitation, temperature control, bottling/kegging, etc. As you learn more, you can choose to delve further into the hobby: experimenting with different specialty malts, big beers, advanced methods like decoction, etc.

Enjoy the hobby, don't overcomplicate it, until you're actually ready and capable of doing so.

I think for many the tinkering, building, expanding, perfecting is as much a part of their enjoyment as the beer itself... I don't think any of the folks w/ crazy amazing setups got them overnight...I started w/ 2 buckets and an aluminum pot on my stovetop. Now I have a dedicated burner, multiple carboys, a mash tun, an immersion chiller, an oxygenation diffuser and countless other dodads related to my brewing. Next will be the stir plate to really kick my starters into high gear... Maybe someday it'll be the fermentation chamber and a RIMS, but it's one step at a time for me....

Ummmmmm..kind of. I got all the specs, materials and such. I have a few pictured of the stand and making the kettles...i haven't yet put the pump in or the plumbing. Another.poster hit another good point. A lot of homebrewers are tinkerers, builders, innovators and handy. Part of my joy pf homebrewing is making the gadgets myself instead of buying them all from blichman. I almost enjoy building the gear more than brewing

A lot of good points made here... Cool thread!

IMO, sometimes the equipment mania seems a bit like those sub-par golfers who think that getting the latest $1000 driver is going to make them as good as the big boys.

However, as something of a DIY'er, I also have to agree with the comment that making useful brewing stuff is part of the fun! Plus it saves money

Also, some equipment really DOES make a huge difference in how much I enjoy my beer. I guess the key here, as with most things, is to find a middle ground that suits you. After all, that's the whole point of brewing your own beer!

I agree for the most part...although I still want to believe that I can make beer as good or better than commercial, some day.

One part I love about home brewing is the variation between each batch. If good was equivalent to consistently making the exact same thing each time, McDonalds would be great food.

Krane said:

I agree for the most part...although I still want to believe that I can make beer as good or better than commercial, some day.

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oh, you can! I've had several beer lovers--who are honest enough that I don't believe they're just kissing a$$--tell me, "I'd happily pay $5 for a pint of this in a bar!" in reference to three of my beers, and I've only been brewing 13 months or so. I think that's a good first step.

We all do this hobby for different reasons. I think to put your expectation on anyone else is not what this is about. If your reasons to homebrew are as you state then cool for you. If someone else wants a HERMS system and spend the cash in search of the holy "beer" grail then hats off to them. We all gain enjoyment out of differnt things. Some people making the recipe from scratch is the most enjoyable part for others brewing from a kit is what they want.

I think my point is while what you say is valid for you it may not be for everyone.

Cheers

I think some people enjoy brewing for the sake of brewing (and/or building stuff to brew with), other enjoy brewing for the homebrew they get to consume as a result.

I am more towards the latter but nothing wrong with the former.

cutarecord said:

I am a relatively new home brewer. I've done partial mash but no all grain yet (soon hopefully) and I think i had my first homebrew-epiphany... After hours, and hours, and more hours of research on the webs (as im sure most "newbrewers" do) I realized how much of homebrewing is taken WAY too seriously. I feel like the guys on youtube (and such sites) that post video after video of trying to get the perfect clarity from their beer are missing the point...

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1st off welcome to HBT and home brewing! You can put in as little or as much into this hobby as you like. Perfect clarity and videos? While I can not say much for clarity but the videos are there for the folks that do not want to read about it and/or need a visual aid. Pictures being worth a thousand words and all...

cutarecord said:

That is to say, there are a lot of homebrewers out there dedicated to perfecting total professional grade beer and immense brewing apparatuses. They are searching for perfectly clear professional grade beer OR insanely complex brewing systems with computer controlled valves and pumps etc. Maybe it's just me but I think partaking in homebrew is to indulge in non-comercial-grade beer. That's the point of homebrewing. (to me, anyhow)

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I think you are confusing why people build immense brewing apparatuses. IMO it is because this hobby has a high potential to save money by DIY. NASA scientists came up with the original Brutus concept and it has been adapted and changed slightly per each brewers wants/need. The engineering is as much fun for MANY people as making the beer, myself included. There is something to be said about "I built that myself".

cutarecord said:

Now, there is a lot to be said about perfecting your craft and producing product worthy of pride. However, there is a very thin line that exists. If a brewer is concocting homebrew focused on putting those beers up against a commercially available brew, then what's the point? The commercial beer is always going to be superior in the craft due to the science and technology (ultimatly money$) involved in producing a commercial brew.

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huh??? I am lost. I think you are trying to voice dislike for comps but I can tell you, I do not know of ANY homebrew comps that let someone compete against pro brewers. It just isn't done.
I felt the same way about comps and did not enter my 1st one until last year. I did not do it for glory but to bond with my fellow club members and to meet other brewers from a different club.
Comps are also a great way to get feedback on your beers on a technical level.
I am not saying i will run out and brew a beer for every comp I see but it is just another facet of the hobby.

cutarecord said:

Sipping on a homebrew, one can celebrate the inconsistencies bottle-to-bottle.

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huh??? all my beer tastes the same in every bottle and yours should to at least per batch...

cutarecord said:

One can relish in the fact that they are consuming more B vitamins because their brew hasen't been filtered.

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I filter my beer and still get plenty of vitamins and no hangover when I drink just a few homebrews in a drinking session. I just have a perfect opportunity to filter and I have grown to dislike large chunks of stuff in my beer. Just because it is filtered does not mean stripped of all goodness...

cutarecord said:

One can share the stories with friends about horrible home brew nightmares along with incredible brew success.

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hahahaha that is never gonna stop. As your system grows the more "deer in the headlights" looks you are going to get. I love talking about beer and do at great lengths.

cutarecord said:

One and celebrate the fact that there are a handful of people in the entire population of the world that will ever tase that exact variation of brew.

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Another reason for those computer controlled rigs is repeatability. I can even point out commercial brews that vary from batch to batch andd year to year. Repeatability in an identical way is HARD to do.

cutarecord said:

Most importantly, one can share a product of crafting a brew with one's own hands. Those feeling will never be part of cracking even the tastiest Guinness, Steam Beer or Boulevard Wheat.

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I think these people are MUCH closer to us than a BMC drinker. You would be surprised how many people home brew that like craft beer. Those that do not may only need prompting to do so. I am always looking (Not insistently pushing) for more people to add to our club.

cutarecord said:

Home brews are apples and commercial brews are oranges.

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More like different varieties of apples. I love me some home brews but I also love me some commercial beers. I was out doing...we will call it research last night. If you have never had a rare beer that you can not find in your state and shared it with club members you should try it sometime. Our next club meeting a distributor is coming to give us commercial brews to try. There is not 1 person in our club that is not excited about this...

cutarecord said:

I feel like homebrewing has soul. Some brewers seem to loose track of that along the way with their $500 mash tuns and conical fermenters....

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I learned this from my computer hobby...There will always be someone somewhere with better equipment than me. Some people have more money than time and prefer to buy a prefab brewery instead of building every little thing from scratch. They are no less of a brewer than me and vice versa.
Another reason for the fancy rigs is control. The more control you have over every process the better you potential beer can be.

I quoted you this way in order to address specifics not to try to start a debate...

Some people drive Kias, some drive Mercedes, some feel they need a Lambroghini. I have an old pickup truck. It starts in the morning and goes down the road. It's ugly as sin.

Same sort of thing goes on with homebrewing. Some like it simple, just to make beer to drink. Some like to go a bit farther and make up their own recipes and perfect them to their standards which might be quite high. Some brewers like bling. What's wrong with that? If they have the cash and the desire, let them have at it.

I agree with a lot of points. As a DIYer I admit I kind of lose a bit of respect for homebrewers that I meet who just buy their systems whole or who have a friend build it entirely. They don't know why the system is setup the way it is.
Buying piecemeal is different as you are building it to suit your needs. But typically these guys that had someone else build it cannot handle any mistakes that happen in the process because they can only brew one very specific way. If that makes sense.

First off, I think it's awesome that this started a good conversation! I feel like that is a win in itself.

ALSO, i should clarify some points because it was really late and i was having thoughts that weren't communicated properly.

- I don't think if someone hasa huge homebrew setup that makes them a bad brewer. I am a HUGE tinker-er and I would love to build something like that with my own hands. I can't wait to get a hold of my first keg and start constructing a keggle.

- I LOVE LOVE LOVE some commercial craft brew. There are some small batch beers and local craft brewers that have produced some of the best nectar i've ever consumed. I am a young man and a younger brewer but I like to think i have a pretty developed pallet and have stumbled onto some pretty great (Commercially available) brews.

- I guess my point was not to condemn those who a very meticulous but to celebrate the beauty of making OUR OWN beer. I guess i would say it's the difference between listening to classical music and the blues. Both are incredible to listen to but each has it's own place. Classical music is preformed with the highest of talent and consistency. The outcome is beautiful and harmonious. The blues are just a beautiful and talent driven but for different reasons.

Both can be appreciated. Mostly, I wanted to celebrate homebrew because it's something we make with our hands. I don't doubt, at some point, most homebrewers run across someone so obsessive about one little aspect of their beer OR someone who talks about their beer as it compares to other commercial beers. To them i would say, "Im excited to meet another homebrewer, and your beer is tasty because it is YOUR beer."

Dunno if that makes more sense or not, but regardless CHEERS!

There were two comments in the OP I just had to speak up about...

cutarecord said:

...If a brewer is concocting homebrew focused on putting those beers up against a commercially available brew, then what's the point? The commercial beer is always going to be superior in the craft...

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This, my friend, is simply not true. Yes, I've had my share of "meh" homebrews. I've brewed my share. I also happen to have a keg of robust porter at home that I'll put up against, and drink before, pretty much every other porter I've ever tried - though it only narrowly edges out a robust porter a fellow member of my homebrew club brews regularly. Several guys in the club have brews that we all consider world-class and would gladly stand up next to any commercially available brew. Give yourself some time to really nail down your process and get a really good feel for your ingredients, and you'll likely have similar results under your belt. (And, especially in my homebrew club, I've got a super ghetto setup - wouldn't even begin to call what I've got a "rig"!)

cutarecord said:

Sipping on a homebrew, one can celebrate the inconsistencies bottle-to-bottle. One can relish in the fact that they are consuming more B vitamins because their brew hasen't been filtered...

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(also snipped: further comments regarding the inconsistencies inherent in homebrew)

Zamial said it already, but there are a LOT of commercial breweries that aren't consistent from one batch to the next. I can think of one local micro that does a watermellon ale in the summertime. One summer, it was fantastic. But every other summer, it was exactly like it sounds - thick and syruppy sweet, like drinking a jolly rancher. Ever watch Brew Masters? There was a perfect example shown in the episode where they had to dump a batch of their 120 minute IPA - they literally broke out archived bottles of the past few years' batches of 120, figured out which they liked best (they were ALL different!), and then they tried to recreate it.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with more of your points than I disagree with, but these two in particular I just had to speak up about!

I think I'd really like to emulate commercial beer. Just not certain beers. I'd love to make beers as good as Founders, Bells, etc. But not some others.

I dont' think there is as much trying to compete with commercial as you think. People do it to build their ability, not necessarily because they think that copying is the ultimate. It's a target to try and hit. It's a baseline for ability. It doesn't always carry over into a great beer (but often does).

I appreciate all levels of homebrewing. Building equipment is fun and there are many people on here who do it because they love to build and some people do it because they appreciate the convenience that some equipment upgrades give.

But you can make excellent beer, even beer to rival the quality craft brewers, on a very modest setup with some basic best practices, and even some basic knowledge and a wing and a prayer.

The trick is to learn what you need to do to make YOUR system and YOUR process do what you WANT it to do!

Is it important to make a very tasty Pale Ale perfectly clear? Not in my opinion. But there are others who would want to take that "next step" with their process because that's what they would like in their beer. They may think that a clear beer is more appealing to themselves or others.

I also like to taste other homebrewers beers. Some of them have been every bit as good as any craft brewer's beer and sometimes even better than some! Some are unique and enjoyable for their own flavors and qualities.

Others have been less than great and are obviously made by an inexperienced brewer. I've almost always seen that person eager to learn and improve.

But to restate, it's not that hard and you don't need any fancy equipment to make a great beer. And, great beer is what you think it is.

stratslinger said:

...Ever watch Brew Masters? There was a perfect example shown in the episode where they had to dump a batch of their 120 minute IPA - they literally broke out archived bottles of the past few years' batches of 120, figured out which they liked best (they were ALL different!), and then they tried to recreate it.

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That is one thing about that show I hated. Sam wanted to try and recreate a beer that was several YEARS old. And I KNOW Sam must understand that in that much time the beer would change immensely!

So how did they plan on making DFH120 taste like it was 3 years old??

rwinzing said:

We all do this hobby for different reasons. I think to put your expectation on anyone else is not what this is about. If your reasons to homebrew are as you state then cool for you. If someone else wants a HERMS system and spend the cash in search of the holy "beer" grail then hats off to them. We all gain enjoyment out of differnt things. Some people making the recipe from scratch is the most enjoyable part for others brewing from a kit is what they want.

I think my point is while what you say is valid for you it may not be for everyone.

Cheers

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That's my feeling, too. I make many things, beer, wine, soap, etc, that would be cheaper to buy. But it's actually better quality than you can buy. Home made pasta sauce, home made BBQ sauce and jams, home made soaps, lotions, lip balms, body butter, beer, and wine- all better when you make it yourself.

Some people like their Mr. Beer kit and Cooper's prehopped kits. That's cool, if they love their results. But having my attention to detail to make a unique and high quality product that is BETTER than store bought is important to me, and I don't think that anybody should denigrate that just as I don't knock their Mr. Beer beer.

Some people are happy with Prego Spaghetti sauce. I am not. Same with beer. Some people are happy with commercially available beer that is good, but maybe not great. I am not.

Just like any hobby or sport. You can get as involved as little or much as you like. And you can spend as little or as much as you like.

No reason to rant just because some folks are more into it then others.

I think your opinions are valid, yet I urge you to volunteer to be a judge at a Home Brew Comp. I think you might change your mind on the quality part. I have tasted many home made home brewed beers that taste as good and often times better than commercially available craft beers. Remember, most commercially made beers are first made on pilot systems that are identical to the Brutus, tipy dump, EBREW, etc systems seen all over this site.

As far as people going overboard with their systems... I think at least for me, it is a way to show my creativity. Not only with the beers I brew, but with the equipment I make. I find myself building things, using them for a year, then selling them off to make new and different pieces. It's all in what people like. I used to be in to cars pretty big. I was the guy who had one of the fastest cars out there. But, my car looked like a pile a crap. Had no radio or dash, just 2 seats, and a Bad paint job. On the other hand, I had another buddy who had the nicest looking car and an AMAZING sound system. Did I tease him for having a SLOW car... Sure but that is what he liked. The same as he teased me, cause no one would ride in my car cause it scared them. Everyone has their own reason for enjoying this great hobby. Mine, was cause I had to grow up and beer and a FAST car don't mix

rwinzing said:

We all do this hobby for different reasons. I think to put your expectation on anyone else is not what this is about. If your reasons to homebrew are as you state then cool for you. If someone else wants a HERMS system and spend the cash in search of the holy "beer" grail then hats off to them. We all gain enjoyment out of differnt things. Some people making the recipe from scratch is the most enjoyable part for others brewing from a kit is what they want.

I think my point is while what you say is valid for you it may not be for everyone.

Cheers

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This is right on, we all brew for our own reasons. Who is any one to tell another that their reason is less superior. I love the building aspect and the process of making beer. Recipe formulation is not my favorite but others love it. I'm glad they do because it gives me great recipes to brew. Other brewers create and tinker with systems. I've taken ideas from them.

Basically what I am saying is without the various kind of brewers into different things, the hobby wouldn't be so interesting and ever changing.

I would say I completely disagree with only one thing: You CAN make home brew as good as or better than commercial brewers. It ain't as hard as you think, you're just being lazy *wink*.

It's like saying you can't grow hops as good as the hop yards, or you can't grow tomatoes as good as you get in the super market, or you can't bake cakes as good as hostess, or you can't make french fries as good as McDonalds...whatever your thing is and so on. The fact is, because we do small batch one-off stuff, we SHOULD be able to hand craft something better than commercial brewers, who have to pull out every stop to make something not only good but AFFORDABLE! Commercial brewers are shackled by needing to make profits, homebrewers are not. End of story.

Agreed.

To me the goal is brewing the best beer I can with what I have. I started off with hopped extract and water. It wasn't great by any means but I loved it. Then when I could afford new equipment I went to steeping grains and hops. Loved it more. Now I'm all grain temp control kegging brew software harvesting yeast protien rests cold breaks hot breaks Irish moss ph stabilizer bla bla bla it's still our own creation. I love every beer I make...because it's mine.........this is why it's called a craft. If you don't enjoy whT you can make with what you have your missing the point......

Actually, the more I think about it, the more the title of this thread starts to bug me...

Why should anyone be "frustrated" by what drives others to homebrew? If doing what you're doing is making you happy, great. If the results you're getting are making you happy, great! Who gives a crap what the other guy's doing, or why, or what he's producing? It should have no impact, whatsoever, on your enjoyment of this great hobby!

I can relate to the idea behind this thread to a degree, only because I'm new to homebrewing and it can be intimidating.

There is so much to LEARN and that alone can be challenging. Then there's actually DOING it which can be a lifetime vocation. And having any sense of mastery is also a real limitless deal that can be pretty intimidating for beginning or amateur brewers.

I have to admit that I get overwhelmed reading some of the posts here--I've been lurking for several months but am finally getting involved and posting because I didn't want to talk out of my ass. But I'm fortunate to have a good local brew shop and knowledgeable buddies that keep my anxiety level down. After all, it should be a relaxing, fulfilling hobby!

And based on my first two batches, I'm enjoying the fruits of my labor.

I agree with some of the sentiment here, but not all of the individual points made by the OP. I think that the product I make is as good as most commercial beers, and better than many. The thing I like is the ability to endlessly tweak and modify recipes to make exactly what I want to drink. To me, that's what makes it better than commercial. I'm currently drinking my last batch of DIPA. I designed the recipe, hit my numbers spot on, and came up with the best IPA I have ever had. Is the quality better than commercial beers? No, but the beer EXACTLY matches my taste in IPAs. My last batch of porter was the same. That being said, I do strive to make the best quality product I can. If I didn't think what I was producing was on par with something I could buy, I wouldn't make it anymore.

Like the OP, I celebrate the variability that you can achieve through homebrewing, but the true beauty of it is to understand that variability and be able to control it in order to produce the results that you really enjoy.

The OP misses the point. Homebrewing is whatever the individual homebrewer wants it to be. It's sad that there is so much dissension in the ranks in the same way that "true" music fans get snobby about other fans that like bands that have "sold out" to the man. I won't tell you that your methods are archaic if you don't tell me that mine are jerked off.

Bobby_M said:

The OP misses the point. Homebrewing is whatever the individual homebrewer wants it to be.

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Amen. You make it want you it to be. If you want perfection and seek it, that's fine. If you're content with less, that's fine too.

Brew on!

MC

Cool thread for sure, hit a chord with me also. I love the tinkering with equipment and building my own stuff from scrap and free items. Then to have it produce a better quality beer makes me even happier. I too started with 1 carboy and 3 gal stock pot with a few misc hoses. At the time I thought my beer was great. Cheers to all.

Pouring a pint of beer I've brewed, that I can honestly say I could imagine being served at a bar (and enjoying it), is where it really gets fun!

Even better when your family agrees.