Trying to get everything make first brew

A friend of mine and I are looking to get into brewing. We are trying to do everything on as small of a budget as neccisary. I was to use this thread as both trying to get advice from everyone here and also to track our first brew. So first I would like to get everyones opinion on the equipment we are planning on getting.

We will most likely be getting the "Midwest Brewing Intermediate Equipment Kit" it comes with:
DVD
Instrction Book
6.5 Gallon Plastic Fermentor
Bottle Filler
5 Gallon Glass Carboy
6.5 Gallon Glass Carboy
8 Inch Funnel
Bottle Brush
Bottle Caps
8 Oz no rinse cleaner
6.5 Gallon Bottling bucket with spigot
2 airlocks
Drilled Universal Carboy Bung
Hydrometer
2 Thermometers
6.5 and 7 rubber stoppers
Carboy Brush
Capper
Auto Siphon
Shutoff Clamp
Siphon Tubing

This is 109.95 and from what I can find that seems like a really good price. I have a couple questions about this though. I can exchange the 5 and 6.5 gallong glass carboys for a 5 and 6 gallon undrilled better bottles for the same price. Should I keep the glass or get the better bottles? Also if it comes with a 5 and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy why would I need the plastic fermenter? Granted, I am new but it would seem to me that all the fermenting would be done in the carboys. In addition to this kit is there anything else other than a kettle that I would need?

Also we have about 20' of coiled 3/8" galvanized steel tubing that we could easily use as an immersion chiller but would the galvinized steel cause any problems such as off flavors or anything else? Does a chiller have to be copper or is that just always used because of its heat transfer properties?

Finaly we are trying to figure out which beer we should start with. We are not able to lager yet because of the temperature problems. There are a couple of kits from Midwest that we are looking at but we dont know which one we should go with. We are thinking about Apple Ale or a wheat like this one or this one. I dont know which one of them (if any) is suited for a beginer. If none of them are reccomended is there an ale that you could recomend to a couple of guys that are used to drinking lagers like Heinekin, Yeungling, and Amstel? Thank you very much for everyones help in advance.

It's a bit overkill, but good stuff nonetheless. You could trim down your budget by reducing your purchase to:

3 Ale Pails with spigot
2 drilled lids
2 air locks
1 5-6 gallon pot
A copy of "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing"
1 bottle capper
1 autosiphon
1 3' length of hose
1 nylon hops bag
1 digital thermometer ($10 from menards)
1 small electronic scale (or a postal scale if you have one)
1 bottling wand
1 bag of caps
2-5 cases empty beer bottles from a craftbrew (no screw-offs)
1 subscription to HomeBrewTalk
1 bottle iodaphor
1 tub of Oxyclean

Check Craigslist and see if you can find someone selling their gear.

Just note that the brewing kit you buy will most likely come with bottle caps as well. I remember after i bought my starter kit from my local HBS, i was a little pissed to say the least at the price of the starter kit offered by midwest that you have found. I will say however, that since you just started out, maybe one carboy is enough and you can save yourself the 30 bucks and buy the kit with that money. Also, factor in shipping with the purchase.

If you are serious about brewing a lot of brews one after another and you need the extra space for the second carboy, then i would suggest getting it, otherwise, i would go with the single carboy kit. As for the better bottle vs glass carboy argument, you dont have to look far on this forum to find an argument or two.

If I were starting all over again I would get the following equipment:

1 6.5 gallon ale pale
1 bottling bucket
1 5 gallon carboy
2 air locks
1 carboy bung
1 5-6 gallon pot
A copy of "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing"
1 bottle capper
1 autosiphon
1 6' length of hose
1 digital thermometer ($10 from menards)
1 small electronic scale (or a postal scale if you have one)
1 bottling wand
1 bag of caps
2-5 cases empty beer bottles from a craftbrew (no screw-offs)
1 subscription to HomeBrewTalk
1 bottle iodaphor
1 tub of Oxyclean

TheJadedDog said:

If I were starting all over again I would get the following equipment:

1 6.5 gallon ale pale
1 bottling bucket
1 5 gallon carboy

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3 ale-pails with spigots will allow him to ferment 2 batches at a time. The biggest mistake you'll make is thinking that one batch at a time is sufficient.

Before i continue with my opinion, i need to know, do you want the ability to ferment multiple batches at once?

Do you absolutely want a carboy?

Or is this a weekend hobby that you are just giving a test run?

these answers are VERY relevant in the equipment you are planning to purchase.

I don't think you can use the galvanized tubing for a chiller. that's like a plated metal, with zinc and nickel I think, and you don't really want either of those in contact with your brew.

Cheesefood said:

3 ale-pails with spigots will allow him to ferment 2 batches at a time. The biggest mistake you'll make is thinking that one batch at a time is sufficient.

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True, but so will an ale pale and a glass carboy.

First off I want to thank everyone for their really quick responses and I am absorbing everything in about the equipment. But I do want to respond to its02003

Before i continue with my opinion, i need to know, do you want the ability to ferment multiple batches at once?

Do you absolutely want a carboy?

Or is this a weekend hobby that you are just giving a test run?

these answers are VERY relevant in the equipment you are planning to purchase.

Click to expand...

I want to start off doing one batch at a time probably just for the first 2 or 3 just trying to get the hang of things. So I can learn if I screwed something up before I start another batch and make the same mistake again. Once I get everything down I will definatly be doing multiple batches because I cant imagine waiting atleast 6 weeks for some beer.

I dont absolutly want a carboy but from what ive read i think I may prefer one but that is not something that I am set in stone about.

This will be a weekend hobby in the way that thats about the only time that I will be able to devote a few hours to brewing, but i dont think that it is going to be something that I will just do once or twice a year. It is something that I really want to get involved in and on a very regular basis.

Again thanks for everyones help.

also if the galvinized steel wont work for a chiller does anyone know where I can get some cheap copper tubing?

its02003 said:

since you just started out, maybe one carboy is enough and you can save yourself the 30 bucks and buy the kit with that money.

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That was my thought. Even in that config, you can have one in the bucket and one in the glass. If you've got the bucks to spare, I use all glass for pri and sec. I also buy all 6.5's so there's no issues with not having the right one vacant.

In any case, it sounds like you're off to a great start.

Ok, I think ive decided to go with a kit that has three fermenters so I can make a beer and also Hard Cider to start with. Would it be possible to start the cider in the plastic fermenter and the beer in the 6.5 carboy then move the beer to the 5 carboy for the secondary fermentation and the cider into the 6.5 that had the beer in it? Does anyone see any problems with this or would this require me to get a 4th fermenter? Thanks

Take a look at the midwest kit again: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=6876
It only have one primary fermenter, a 6.5 gallon bucket, and 2 secondaries, 5 gallon glass carboys, plus a bottling bucket with a spigot and no lid.

It also doesn't look like the bucket comes with a drilled lid. You might want to add that along with a blowoff tube and air lock for the lid.

For what it's worth, the only time I've ever touched my 5 gallon carboys were on 3.5 gallon batches.

If there's no problem doing secondary of a 5 gallon batch in a 6 or 6.5 gallon carboy (and I've not had a problem with it yet), I see no point in smaller carboys other than to save $5 over a bigger carboy.



2x Ale Pail $24
1x Bottling Bucket $12
2x lids for Ale Pail $ 5
5x airlocks $ 5
2x 6 or 6.5g Carboy/BB $52
1x HowToBrew.com $ 0 <-- freebie!
1x bottling wand $ 2
3x grain bag $ 2
2x carboy cab/bungs $ 3
25x feet racking hose $ 8
1x auto siphon $13
1x Iodophor Bottle $ 5
-------------------------------------------
$131

This lets you ferment up to 4 beers at any given time.
You could save about $40 off of that by purchasing only 1 pail and 1 carboy, if you don't want to have 4 going.

Take a look at the midwest kit again: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/produ...px?ProdID=6876
It only have one primary fermenter, a 6.5 gallon bucket, and 2 secondaries, 5 gallon glass carboys, plus a bottling bucket with a spigot and no lid.

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I may be missing something but I thought that both the 6.5 gallon fermenter and lid and also the 6.5 gallon carboy could both be used for primary. Please correct me if im wrong.

Also what are the advantages of a blowoff tube and how exactly are they used?

edit: ok now im confused because I just looked at midwest's website and according to the website it has 2 5 gallon carboys when the catalog I have show that it has a 5 and a 6.5 gallon. I guess I need to call them and find out for sure.

dataz722 said:

I may be missing something but I thought that both the 6.5 gallon fermenter and lid and also the 6.5 gallon carboy could both be used for primary. Please correct me if im wrong.

Also what are the advantages of a blowoff tube and how exactly are they used?

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He said 2x 5 gallon carboys - IE: no good for primary fermentation of a 5g batch.

ok, i just called them and the guy that I talked to seemed like he had no idea what i (or he for that matter) was talking about. He said that its two 5's and kept telling me that the catalog didnt say different so I really dont know.

For what it's worth, here it is DIRECT from the website. It even says "intermediate kit with two 5 gallon carboys"

Brewing Intermediate Kit w/Two 5 Gallon Glass Carboys
Brewing Intermediate Kit: This versatile equipment kit is available with either two 5 gallon glass carboys or two 5 gallon Better Bottle fermenters. Glass carboys have been the secondary fermenter of choice for decades for homebrewers. Better Bottles provide a quality alternative to glass fermenters. See page 40 of our catalog for all of the details on these fermenters. We have upgraded this equipment kit to include a Fermtech AutoSiphon, the easiest method of starting a siphon. The components of this kit represent a considerable savings compared to being purchased separately. The equipment kit is sure to keep you brewing for years to come. Brewing Intermediate Equipment Kit List: Instructional Homebrewing Video or DVD &#8226; 71 page instructional book &#8226; Two 5 Gallon Glass Carboys &#8226; 6.5 Gallon Plastic Fermenter &#8226; 6.5 Gallon Bottling Bucket with Spigot &#8226; 8 Oz. of Easy Clean No-Rinse Cleanser &#8226; 2 Universal Carboy Bungs &#8226; 2 Airlocks (Keeps air out of the fermenter) &#8226; 8 Inch Funnel &#8226; Hydrometer (Determines alcohol content) &#8226; Bottle Brush &#8226; Carboy Brush &#8226; Twin Lever Red Baron Bottle Capper &#8226; Bottle Caps &#8226; 2 Liquid Crystal Thermometers &#8226; Bottle Filler &#8226; Fermtech AutoSiphon &#8226; Siphon Tubing &#8226; shutoff clamp

Cheap copper tubing is hard to come about these days and if you are going to be doing extract brewing, you can probably make an ice bath in your sink or tub and cool the wort quick enough.

To respond to your more detailed post:

If you plan on getting into the hobby, i suggest getting the kit with ONE carboy and not 2. It will save you some cabbage and the second one will probably not be needed just yet. As i am reading the kits on the Midwest site, the difference between the beginners kit and the kit with 1 carboy is an auto-siphon and a carboy and the price difference is 20 bucks. The next steup up to the intermediate kit includes the same stuff but with another carboy (and a funnel, which you can get anywhere for under 5 bucks) and the difference is 30 bucks. the math doesnt work for me and you arent getting youself a deal gettting the second carboy as part of the kit. You will find that the single carboy set is more than enough to get you into the hobby, and if you need another later (chances are you won't), you can go buy another one.

May i also suggest from Midwest the Upgrade kit 1?

The book is the widest used kit on this forum, the dryer for the carboy will be nice and the spray cleaner will be a lifesaver. Its well worth the additional 40 bucks.

Finally, order everything you need from one place, the shipping weight is so much if you are getting a kit that the extra ingredients will add pennies to the cost.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks its02003 but where the confusion was coming from the fact that you were looking at the website and I was looking at their catalog. The website shows two 5 gallon carboys and the catalog has one 5 and a 6.5. I called them and the guy didnt sound like he knew much of anything but he said that its 2 5's.

As far as the shipping goes I think it is pretty reasonable because I am going to be looking at probably 60-70 pounds and its only $27 so I was trying to get everything minus the bottles from there. But does anyone know of anywhere else that I might want to try. Ive looked at northern brewer but they are more expensive.

Maybe you have an old catalog or something. I'm looking at there latest on my desk and it matches the web site.

I have compared Northern's Deluxe kit to the Midwest Intermediate kit and I actually think the Northern kit is a better deal. It has a glass primary and 1 glass secondary. It also comes with the carboy dryer, beer thief, blow off tube, and there upgrades are better planned if you need a kettle. Midwest only offers a kettle with their most expensive upgrade. From Northern you can get a kettle upgrade alone or get a nicer kettle and a chiller for a very reasonable price.

You could also compare prices to morebeer. They have free shipping on almost everything I think.

If you are looking at the Midwest catalog and need a kettle, their Everything* kits are good to look at. They give you the kit + kettle + ingredients kit + 2 cases of new unlabeled bottles.

W/O carboy, 132.95

W/ Carboy, 159.95

However, the Northern Kit has some noticeable advantages (and if you are REALLY concerned about getting the most bang for your buck, read on.)

[LINK]http://www.northernbrewer.com/starterkits.html[/LINK]


Since most ingredient kits are around 30 bucks, bottles are around 18 for 2 cases (unless you take the free route which i reccommend) and a kettle can be anywhere from 12 to 40 bucks:

If we do the calculations:

The Norther kit, IMHO, is the better deal. The included gear is of better quality, and the shipping it cheaper. Anytime you can get something that is normally more expensive for around the same price just because of a difference in shipping, you should hop on it ASAP. AKA: Its worth the extra 30 bucks

You might want to get a carboy washer while you are ordering. ~ 10 bucks (and don't get the faucet converter, you either don't need it, or you can get it at Home Depot, etc.)

As for the kettle, i would try an Ocean State Job-Lot-ish (i think thats only in New England) kind of place and see if you can get stainless for cheap, i got mine for 12 bucks. The heat dissipation sucks beyond all imagination, but it DOES still boil 3 gallons of water.

For me, the northern is a no brainer because shipping at midwest is a little insane (what costs you 27 to ship, costs me over 50 )

any plumbing supply house, menards, lowes, home depot, ace, true value, etc. They all carry it. and they will all have the compression fittings and gasket material you need as well

Ok, after hours of searching and shopping around (i was at work getting paid for it so i dont mind ) I have decided to forgo a kit and get everything piece by piece from both my local store and northern brewer. I am planning on getting the following:

6.5 gal Ale Pail (drilled)---11.50 (local)
Drilled Lids (x2)---2.60 (local)
Air Locks (x3)---1.20 (local)
Autosiphon--- 8.99 (northern)
thermometer---- 7.95 (local)
caps--- 4.00 (local)
beer bottles (x2)--- 13.50 (local)
onestep 8oz---- 2.80 (local)
oxyclean----
6.5 gal carboy (x2)--- 25.95 (local)
carboy cap (x2)---- 2.99 (northern)
carboy dryer--- 6.50 (northern)
thief--- 5.99 (northern)
hydrometer--- 5.99 (northern)
carboy brush--- 4.75 (northern)
racking cane holder--- 1.50 (local)
carboy bung---- .85 (local)
5/16" tubing (6ft)---- .35/ft (local)
tubing clamp---- .50 (local)
Bottle Brush--- 2.95 (local)
Bottling Spigot --- 3.25 (local)
Shipping--- 5.99 (northern)

With this I will be able to have four beers going at once even though I dont plan doing that quite yet. This brings me to a total of 163.65. I was going to get everything from northern because it was cheaper overall but they would charge me over 60 dollars for shipping because of the bottles and the carboys.

About a year or so ago I bought what was supposed to be a complete kit from a yard sale. It was brand new but hardly had anything in it. It had a drilled bucket, a spigot, a broken hydrometer, a bottling wand and a capper. It came with some other crap that I wont use too. But my question is should it be ok to use this stuff because it looks a little dirty and dusty but other than that it looks brand new. Also, other than just filling it, is there any way to find out what size the bucket it? Also, the capper is black with plastic handles and looks and feel like a POS. I think it is this one. Should I just use this capper or would it be in my best interest to get a better one.

Finally, does anyone have any advice as to whether or not a wheat beer would be simply enough for a first brew?

Any other advice or suggestions would be very greatly appreciated and thanks to everyone that has already helped me.

A wheat beer is easy, so if you like them, go for it! I would get a couple "fermometers". They are stick on thermometers that stick onto your carboy or bucket so you can guage the temperature. I love them.

I don't know about your capper- I'd recommend a red baron capper (or a bench capper if money isn't an issue). Mine has been great for many hundreds of bottles.

Don't get a theif, get a turkey baster for less money. Trust me, you don't need to spend the 6 bucks. Also, if you are going to get a bottle brush and oxy clean, then go to your local liquor store and see if you can buy returnable bottles from them (usually they will sell for under $.10 a bottle.) Buying bottles isnt worth it. That will save you another 20 or so bucks. Other than that, the sky is the limit for the types of beer you want to brew. Buy a kit and follow the directions, odds are, you won't screw it up enough to trash the batch.

OF NOTE FOR FIRST BREW: if you are doing a Liquid Malt Extract brew, stir the malt AS you are pouring it into the boil, otherwise it literally sinks RIGHT to the bottom IMMEDIATELY and burns. This imparts an unintentional smokey flavor to the beer which may or may not be a good thing. But just take note of it.

Not to threadjack but along the topic of the book "the joys of home brewmaking". Do you think it could be replaced in the list of "starting gear" for Palmers newer book "how to brew"?

no matter what you get Midwest Supplies is great to deal with

i live within 10 minutes of their warehouse in minneapolis and i also just got into brewing. pretty good prices and they are for sure very helpful and knowlegeable!

just thought i needed to plug the local place! lol

its02003 said:

OF NOTE FOR FIRST BREW: if you are doing a Liquid Malt Extract brew, stir the malt AS you are pouring it into the boil, otherwise it literally sinks RIGHT to the bottom IMMEDIATELY and burns. This imparts an unintentional smokey flavor to the beer which may or may not be a good thing. But just take note of it.

Click to expand...

Turn the heat OFF (or move off burner if electric) when adding extract. Stir until dissolved, and then re-light the flame.

In regards to glass vs plastic carboys.

I'm rather fond of the better bottles. They are made of PET, so it is a quality plastic that will not hinder your beer. In addition they are lightweight, so if you drop it you don't have to worry of a mess of glass and liquid to clean.

If you do decide to go with better bottle carboys do not get a carboy brush. I've heard that they will scratch the plastic and give bacteria a place to grow.

Also I ended up getting my first kit from midwest. The shipping price wasn't so fun(I live in the middle of nowhere), but they were very helpful when I had silly questions and the kit included almost everything I needed.

Be carefull what you ask these guys are the minimum requirments for beer making. These guys are hard core brewers. They call a pic of a stainless steel 15 gallon fermentor beer porn.

At first I liked cheese's list, but the advice of getting a used set up was good too. Maybe this guy's stuff.... http://www.redhillbrewery.com.au/brewery.htm

If that is not available, do you have any extra really big beer kegs? And a bench grinder and a welder? We are going to need about a ten gallon beverage cooler and some fittings from Home Depot.

For the kegerator, do you have an extra really big chest freezer. How many taps do you want to get? Minimum four taps, but you will want to have more room for extra kegs and lagering fermentors.

Or you could just go with cheese's list

pldoolittle said:

Turn the heat OFF (or move off burner if electric) when adding extract. Stir until dissolved, and then re-light the flame.

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it still burns to the bottom of mine (because its just so damn cheap)

its02003 said:

it still burns to the bottom of mine (because its just so damn cheap)

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I don't have that problem, and it can't be any cheaper than that tin can shaped like a pot that I got with my turkey fryer. I'd take it off the burner completely and make sure you're using a stirrer that can stir/scrape the bottom. Only once everything has throughly dissolved and off the bottom do you put it back on the fire.

The theif is a good buy. my turkey baster tends to make splashes in the wort

Ok, due to Money restrictions and the need to start brewing ASAP my buddy and I have decided to get just what we need for brew day. This comes out to be:
a pot
a bucket with drilled lid
a thermometer
an airlock
hydrometer
and "one step"

is there anything that I am overlooking?

Also I think I may have a problem. I have a really old stove that is extremly underpowered. I dont think that I will be able to bring enough water up to a rolling boil. Can I make the wort in about 1 gallon and just add more hops? or could I split everything in half and use about half the extract and hops in two seperate 1 gallon pots then combine them in the fermenter?

Lastly, since we are planning on doing this either friday or saturday and I wont be able to mail order an ingredient kit does anyone know of any good american wheat or golden ale recipes using extracts? And should I be worried about the age of the stuff my local LHBS has?

Thanks again.