How bad can it get before its hopeless? (Aging fixes much)

Ive been reading many a post from brewn00bs (myself included) worried about their beer and the fact that they may have ruined it for whatever reason. I then read Revvys post regarding his brewing blunder which turned out great (ironically for his last beer of the batch) and it got me to thinking - how bad can it truly be before all hope is lost?

Oxidation - Drinking wet cardboard is obviously not a pleasurable experience. This appears to be a very common mistake when handling the brew. Can this ultimately be overcome with some 'Extra' aging/mellowing?

Satans Anus - This one is subjective to ones taste (see SCAT) and I would imagine that tasting Satans anus would in turn burn out any inkling of taste buds making your beer paletteable (Okay maybe not) But seriously, Im sure this taste can eventually be overcome. (Maybe?)

Infection - Some strive for an 'infected' brew for different reasons, but the lot of us cry into our beers at the thought of an infection. Ive heard cases of beer being racked to a secondary/tertiary even though is has been attacked by the cousins of the greenie meanies. Will racking/reracking and/or bottling and letting it go eventually make it a drinkable (and possibly) pleasureable beer?

Does time heal all wounds? Or does it just make the beer more forgetful as opposed to fonder?
-Me

Well - time heals MOST, but in the case of infection drinking earlier is better than later.

The issue is that most n00b self disagnosis are just plain wrong...people read something in a book, taste their green beer and panic...taste is subjective...beer judges are actually taught off flavors by drinking examples of them...but unless we get to taste controlled off flavors then we don't really know..

There are kits available with additives that you can use in a neutral beer to get an idea...but the kits are expensive...

Basic brewing ran through them here...

January 26, 2006 - Bad Beer Tasting - Pt. 1
FlavorActiv Enthusiast KitAndy Sparks, Steve Wilkes, and Chris Milum join James and take the FlavorActiv "Enthusiast" beer taste troubleshooting kit for a test run. The group tastes off flavors that could be found in homebrew and talks about how to prevent them.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/radio/mp3/bbr01-26-06.mp3

February 16, 2006 - Bad Beer Tasting - Pt. 2
The bad beer tasting continues! We dive into the second half of our evening with the FlavorActiv "Enthusiast" beer taste troubleshooting kit. We taste the bad beer so you don't have to.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr02-16-06.mp3

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I've seen TONS of threads on here by nervous noobs where they describe something in their beer...and say it's "diacetyl" or something else and give totally wrong descriptions of what it is...I believe that it's better to have an experienced brewer taste your beer is you think it's bad, rather than try to figure it out by looking in a book...If I've never tasted buttered popcorn then how can i TRULY define the beer as having diacetyl? I've never tasted cooked cabbage...yet that is one of the flavor descriptors for bad beers...so what's the point of ME trying to figure it out?

If it is your first batch of beer and you opening it after a few days and it tastes like S*@# since it's your first batch then HOW DO YOU KNOW IF IT's BAD OR GREEN? The new brewer doesn't have any idea what beer tastes like at that stage....with ecperience they might...but a lot of brewers start panic threads, and even more dump their beer...

Some things can't be fixed...but it's no harm to at least try, rather than dumping your beer prematurely.

If you save them for 3-6 months you have a 50% chance of having drinkable beer...if you dump them initially because they taste "bad," then you have 100% chance not have any beer, and your work being for nothing..

I don't get what you are looking for in this thread....if you want a list of known things that you dump your beer without waiting..it goes back to the "Taste is Subjective" argument...A rubber taste at 5 days in the bottle, or in the fermenter...May not EVEN BE THERE after 3 weeks in the bottle...and if it is may not be there at 6 months...so it's really hard to say...that's why I advocate walking away from the beers for awhile....

Every "bad" brew I ever made was just green. I still have a bottle of green now and then, but those are just sacrifices to the learning process. I've never yet found a beer that was infected or oxidised. I'm sure I will in the future, but it's really not that easy to do IMO.

Revvy said:

The issue is that most n00b self disagnosis are just plain wrong...people read something in a book, taste their green beer and panic...taste is subjective...beer judges are actually taught off flavors by drinking examples of them...but unless we get to taste controlled off flavors then we don't really know..


I don't get what you are looking for in this thread....if you want a list of known things that you dump your beer without waiting..it goes back to the "Taste is Subjective" argument...A rubber taste at 5 days in the bottle, or in the fermenter...May not EVEN BE THERE after 3 weeks in the bottle...and if it is may not be there at 6 months...so it's really hard to say...that's why I advocate walking away from the beers for awhile....

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Thats pretty much where I was getting at with this thread - in a grainshell, I guess the best bet is to give it time. I didnt know if there were any tell tale signs of 'Dude, your brew is toast whether you let it sit or not' And how long is 'too long'? Great, Ive let my beer age for another 6 months and now it tastes like a cardboard cutout of Satans ass. (But still better than before)
Is there ever a point of saying fuggit, I need the bottle/fermenter space?
-Me

As a relative n00b, I've found time does heal most things. I haven't had an infection yet, but feared it a couple of times. Turned out to be nothing. And Revvy slapped me a couple of times for running here for a diagnosis.

I'm glad he did. All of my beers have turned out at least well, enough so that my friends ask for me rather than send it back. I've also learned what is green beer and what is not.

That revelation just hit me this week. On Columbus Day, I brewed a holiday beer for Christmas. Primaried it for 4 weeks, bottled and popped a couple Monday after about 22 days in the bottle. It was good, really good, but I could also tell that it needed some aging. It's just a matter of training yourself.

I say AT LEAST 6 months....If the beer isn't any better, then dump it...I've got a batch that may or may not be infected, I replaced all my hoses, auto siphon, and sanitization routines, and moved on...I've had no more issues...but I've set the beer aside for 6 months to see...Because honestly it's a style I'm not that familiar with (ordinary bitters) with a malt I've never used (aromatic) so I wasn't sure if it's just that the beer is supposed to taste that way or not...

SO what I decided to do was to stick it away until 6 months have gone buy, OR I come upon a brewer who knows the style...so far none of my brewing buddies are hip to it ....


I have a huge supply of bottles, so I'm not hurting for them...we'll see what happens in another couple of months with them..

And as to infections...guess what, they happen, you deal with it and move on...I've said it before, a guy with a lot of batches under their belt is MORE LIKELY to get one than a nooob on their first couple batches...it's when your equipment gets banged up bit, and your procedures slip a bit...THAT's when you are more likely to get something...

But it's not the end of the world, nor your brewing career...I was listening to an interview with Dan Carey, Brewmaster of New Glarus Brewing Company (probably one of the coolest micro brews in North America) he said that most breweries get about a three year grace period before they start getting infections...they expect it to happen...so should we..eventually...

But we don't worry about it...

I have been brewing for over a decade and I only had one infection, (my first batch, never dump commercial ice into your wort to cool it).
I can say, time has healed all bad taste except that first one. After 3 weeks in bottles it started tasting bad. After a month and a half it was horrible. I got some people over, we did a bunch of shots, tanked what was left and passed out. Problem solved and lesson learned.