Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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Just checked the label of the apple juice and it does have Vitamin c added.... Darn

Ya, that's probably the culprit. Maybe try again with a juice that doesn't contain ascorbic acid, and of course no potassium sorbate. If you have a Costco near by, get their Kirkland apple juice. It's around $7.99 for two gallons. The ingredient is nothing more than apple juice and that's it. Everything I've made with it has been good.

If you do get a chance, report back and let us know if you notice a difference.
 
Ya, that's probably the culprit. Maybe try again with a juice that doesn't contain ascorbic acid, and of course no potassium sorbate. If you have a Costco near by, get their Kirkland apple juice. It's around $7.99 for two gallons. The ingredient is nothing more than apple juice and that's it. Everything I've made with it has been good.

If you do get a chance, report back and let us know if you notice a difference.

Thanks I'm going to try this recipe with cider.... Maybe even only use 3 gallons and bump up the base and use 4 or 5 lbs of 2 row, .5 crystal 60, .5 carapils what u think?
 
This is my 2nd time making Apple Graff. Last time I made it as directed by Brandon and it was delicious. This go around, I substituted the DME for 1.3lbs of Cara Red and 1.3 lbs of american pale malt. I also used .5lbs of 120L crystal malt because I used cheap store brand juice.

It's been in the carboy for 4 days now and still fermenting strong. It has a really nice dark amber color and I can't wait to see how my improvisation worked out.
 
Hmmm... is this a stuck fermentation? I brewed a Graff on Sept 15 and today (Oct 2) I checked and for the 2nd time in 3 days the hydrometer is saying 1.02 and the airlock has stopped completely. Isn't this too high for it to be finished? Any reason it might be stuck?

I used fresh pressed cider and Nottingham yeast. The OG was 1.065 and it's been at around 68 degrees.

seems too high to bottle but I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Chris

Update: after 1.5 weeks upstairs and some more fermentation, it has gone down a bit more (maybe 1.016 or so) but seems to have totally stopped again. I think it tastes good now, but am a bit worried about bottle carbing now (will it bee over carb'ed?).

Maybe I mashed at too high a temp and some of the sugars are not converting? I'm new to brewing and did have trouble measuring the mash temperature well so it might have been high.

I'm thinking I will bottle tomorrow and take the chance. Hopefully won't have bottle bombs.

Chris
 
Gonna give this a go as my third brew.
I made 2.5 gallons of some good cider with honey and wine yeast. Back sweetened/primed with cran-raspberry juice and sugar. Conditioned to lighly carb'd in a week and put in the kegerator.

Following the recipe to a T... using tree top apple juice, 1lb light 1lb amber DME, .5 oz Willamette, .5lb crystal 120L and 1-2 oz torrified wheat, Nottingham.
 
:D
This will be my first experience with brewing so I'm VERY excited to be starting with exactly what I was looking for (and thanks again to BGCG for pointing me in the right direction).

Now, one Q? that I haven't been able to find a definite answer for...

I'm using fresh pressed apple cider (will be pasteurizing it) and I'm nervous about how much priming sugar to use. I've seen SO much about bottle bombs and I'd hate to see my first batch go out like that!
 
:D
This will be my first experience with brewing so I'm VERY excited to be starting with exactly what I was looking for (and thanks again to BGCG for pointing me in the right direction).

Now, one Q? that I haven't been able to find a definite answer for...

I'm using fresh pressed apple cider (will be pasteurizing it) and I'm nervous about how much priming sugar to use. I've seen SO much about bottle bombs and I'd hate to see my first batch go out like that!


Just leave it in the primary fermenter for a few weeks and make sure fermentation is completely done before bottling it. Once the yeast has eaten all the sugars in the juice, you won't get bottle bombs, because it will only ferment the priming sugar that you added afterwards.
 
Just leave it in the primary fermenter for a few weeks and make sure fermentation is completely done before bottling it. Once the yeast has eaten all the sugars in the juice, you won't get bottle bombs, because it will only ferment the priming sugar that you added afterwards.

Unless she puts too much priming sugar in it, or she's fermenting at a super low temp and the sugars aren't being converted during those few weeks. Or even if she doesn't mix the priming sugar properly.

Let it ferment out at proper temps. How long you let it bulk age/condition is up to you, but general rule of thumb is 1-2-3

1 week in primary
2 weeks in secondary
3 weeks in bottle

Whatever you decide to do, once you think it's ready take a hydro sample. Wait a couple days do a second... And then a third. If they're stable all 3 time, you can bottle.

He is a calculator to determine how much sugar to use:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

Be sure to properly mix your priming sugar in your bottling bucket, but be careful not to oxygenate the graff. If you don't mix well you will have inconsistent carbing between bottles, and some bottles can contain too much sugar and can explode.

There are charts out there to determine the amount of co2 you want for particular styles of beer, so you can get an idea of how much carb you want in your graff and adjust the sugar from there. Obviously If you want a hef style carb, you'll use more sugar than say a stout style carb.
 
I recently gave this recipe a shot, and unfortunately used a cider that contains sodium benzoate :( Is there any chance that I can salvage this batch? After about 2 weeks there is next to no activity going on: in 2 weeks time I have only seen the gravity drop from 1.05 to 1.045

E2NaxWWh.jpg


I've read that sometimes dilution and a strong starter may be able to overcome the sodium benzoate, would it be worth brewing up a second batch and mixing the two together? Or should I just cut my loses and start over?
 
3.3 lbs marris otter LME
12 oz Crystal 80
1 lb Special B
8 oz oak Smoked Malt
8 oz amomatic malt
4 oz. Chocolate Wheat
0.5 oz willamette @ first wort 30 min
0.5 oz opal @ first wort 30 min
0.5 oz willamette @ 15 min
0.5 opal @ 15 min

I used nottingham ale yeast

Added a vanilla bean extracted in a shot of vodka to the secondary.

Tasted fine coming out of the secondary the smoked malt really stood out. Can't wait to see what it taste like after bottle conditioning.
 
I recently gave this recipe a shot, and unfortunately used a cider that contains sodium benzoate :( Is there any chance that I can salvage this batch? After about 2 weeks there is next to no activity going on: in 2 weeks time I have only seen the gravity drop from 1.05 to 1.045

http://i.imgur.com/E2NaxWWh.jpg

I've read that sometimes dilution and a strong starter may be able to overcome the sodium benzoate, would it be worth brewing up a second batch and mixing the two together? Or should I just cut my loses and start over?

Ya that sucks... I was going to say if it's still tasting good, throw in a huge starter.
 
3.3 lbs marris otter LME
12 oz Crystal 80
1 lb Special B
8 oz oak Smoked Malt
8 oz amomatic malt
4 oz. Chocolate Wheat
0.5 oz willamette @ first wort 30 min
0.5 oz opal @ first wort 30 min
0.5 oz willamette @ 15 min
0.5 opal @ 15 min

I used nottingham ale yeast

Added a vanilla bean extracted in a shot of vodka to the secondary.

Tasted fine coming out of the secondary the smoked malt really stood out. Can't wait to see what it taste like after bottle conditioning.

That seems like a lot of hops.. But I see you did late additions. What's the IBU come put to? Hopefully it's not too bitter.
 
Ya that sucks... I was going to say if it's still tasting good, throw in a huge starter.

Right now it still tastes fantastic. I already have 2 packs of rehydrated Notty pitched about 24 hours apart in there, should I wait and see about a third pack and just start with some nutrient? Or would it be best to just preempt the whole situation and add the yeast now?

I'm super mad at myself for not looking closer at the label, but the first sentences of the description on the cider were "Nothing but apples. Our cider is freshly pressed, with nothing added." So I kind of neglected to look. Guess I learned my lesson!
 
Right now it still tastes fantastic. I already have 2 packs of rehydrated Notty pitched about 24 hours apart in there, should I wait and see about a third pack and just start with some nutrient? Or would it be best to just preempt the whole situation and add the yeast now?

I'm super mad at myself for not looking closer at the label, but the first sentences of the description on the cider were "Nothing but apples. Our cider is freshly pressed, with nothing added." So I kind of neglected to look. Guess I learned my lesson!

hmm... I would think two packs should take if it's going to. Pitching dry yeast is like pitching a starter. How long has it been since you pitched the second packet?
 
hmm... I would think two packs should take if it's going to. Pitching dry yeast is like pitching a starter. How long has it been since you pitched the second packet?

About 2 weeks ago. It took about 1 week for any activity to start in the airlock, and now it has been going steady with smaller/weak bubbles for the last 5 or 6 days.

At this point, everything seems to tell me that it's slowly but surely fermenting. The unfortunate thing is that it could be a matter of months before it's actually ready.
 
About 2 weeks ago. It took about 1 week for any activity to start in the airlock, and now it has been going steady with smaller/weak bubbles for the last 5 or 6 days.

At this point, everything seems to tell me that it's slowly but surely fermenting. The unfortunate thing is that it could be a matter of months before it's actually ready.

What temps?
 
I'm getting ready to brew a batch of this for SWMBO -- was looking for something sweet, appley and easy drinking, and this sure looks to fit the bill! I was only able to make it through the first and last 5 pages of this thread or so, though. So here's my question: have there been any commonly agreed-upon tweaks to the recipe from the very first page that I should consider?

I'd be especially interested in hops recommendations, but anything that's come up. (Just as a note, I'll likely be using WY1056 simply because I have some washed and ready to use.)

Thanks!
 
I've never made the original recipe. I made mine all grain with 3lb MO and 2lb crystal 80. It wasn't tart at all. It was very drinkable right out of the fermenter.

I'm wondering. Did you use juice that has added vitamin C, or asorbic acid. I read that can add tartness. The juice I use is from costco and it's 100% apple juice (not from concentrate) with out anything added.

I used Indian Summer 100% apple juice. The only ingredient on the label was apple juice from concentrate. I did all grain as well. The recipe was something like 4 lbs. 2 row malt, 1 lb. Crystal 80 and some wheat malt. 1/2 oz. of Fuggles and I used Wyeast 1056. I don't have my notes listing the OG and FG but it fermented out dry. I've seen posts from others saying store bought juice tends to be more tart than fresh pressed.
 
Well I tried my Graff last night after fermenting for 2 1/2 weeks, and I am a little disappointed. I tried to go out on a limb and do a 3:2 ratio of cider to wart, but it came out tasting like cheep wine. My FG was an impressive .998, making my ABV 7.1%. I'm planning on letting it sit in the primary for another month to see what happens.
 
I'm about to make my first batch and was doing a few calculations and considerations : The recipe calls for 2 lb of DME to be dissolved in total of 1 gallon water, right? Acording to http://www.brewersfriend.com/extract-ogfg/ this should give an OG of approximately 1.09, but I expect that the grains (albeit they are few) will add slightly more, but let's go with a specific gravity of 1.09.
Next, hops should be added; 0.5 oz (let's say 6%) and boiled for 30 minutes in the 1 gallon DME/grain extract. Using an IBU calculator (e.g. http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/ ) and assuming a total batch size of 5 gallon, this gives me an IBU of the grafff of IBU = 0.22.

While it's duly noted that too many hops can overpower this thing, 0.22 sounds like a ridiculously small number to me. I would guess that "slightly hopped" would be somewhere around 1-5, maybe even slightly higher.

Are my calculations all wrong or IS the IBU of this graff indeed as low as ~0.2?

I'm partly asking because I'm curious, partly because I don't have a 1 gallon pot and need to make some adjustments for the boil part, but if I just half the boil size, probably I'll not get the intended hoppyness (?) of the graff. So I tried to adjust for this by the mentioned calculators. But 0.22, really?
 
Well I tried my Graff last night after fermenting for 2 1/2 weeks, and I am a little disappointed. I tried to go out on a limb and do a 3:2 ratio of cider to wart, but it came out tasting like cheep wine. My FG was an impressive .998, making my ABV 7.1%. I'm planning on letting it sit in the primary for another month to see what happens.

Back sweetening with apple juice or concentrate. You're FG is way too low that's why it tastes dry and like wine.
 
I used .5oz of Citra in my 5 gallon batch, and it was PLENTY hoppy. It really doesn't take much.

Well, my question (if your answer was directed to me) wasn't really about whether 0.5oz was enough or not. I'm interested in knowing about the IBU of this thing which I need to know if I want to reproduce with difference boil sizes with different specific gravities etc.

Anyway, I think I found the answer to my problem; The IBU calculator at brewers friend ( http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/ ) takes original gravity as input, whereas I inputted boil gravity. That IBU calculator then takes the OG and converts it into a boil gravity, but if I input boil gravity into that, the formula will use a much to high boil gravity for the calculations, resulting in ridiculously low IBU numbers.

Once I corrected this and cross-checked with various IBU formulas and calculators, I find that this Graff has an IBU around 5-8, depending on hops and formula.

That seems like a much more reasonable number than 0.22 :)
 
Instead of backsweetening with more juice, I decided to try adding a non-fermentable sugar to the batch. I tossed a pound of Lactose Malt in my batch, and it did a pretty good job of taking the "tart" out of it. It did add some mouth feel to the whole thing, but I didn't mind it in the least. The Lactose made the batch drinkable, but I think with my ratio of 2:3 (wart:cider) was a mistake, and probably not correctable at this point.

Next time I'll do the recommended 1:4 ratio, and I'm sure it will turn out much better.

As an interesting side note, I just checked the jugs of cider I used to make my Graff, and they said that it contained Potassium Sorbate (yeast stabilizer)...yet my FG still reached .998! Just goes to show you that you can't keep a good yeast down!
 
I'm about to keg my second all grain graff. I noticed something I haven't seen before. There seems to be a separation of liquid. The top inch or so of liquid is clear while the rest is dark and what you would expect the graff to look like.

I tried looking this up, but had no luck.

I had a vigorous fermentation using Ringwood (1187)

I attached a terrible photo, but it you can see the ring of krausen and that kind of creamy off color clear liquid.

Any ideas? I haven't taken it out or tasted it. I don't think it's infected, but it's still odd.

image.jpg
 
I'm about to keg my second all grain graff. I noticed something I haven't seen before. There seems to be a separation of liquid. The top inch or so of liquid is clear while the rest is dark and what you would expect the graff to look like.

I tried looking this up, but had no luck.

I had a vigorous fermentation using Ringwood (1187)

I attached a terrible photo, but it you can see the ring of krausen and that kind of creamy off color clear liquid.

Any ideas? I haven't taken it out or tasted it. I don't think it's infected, but it's still odd.

I figured it out. It was suck back from the blow off sanitized water. Damn, I had too much head space in the vessel, so it sucked back a bunch. The bucket was low and the hose dipped, man it created a lot of pressure.

I hope I didn't ruin this batch! It's crazy how the Ringwood yeast kept it separated up top. I'm wondering if I can siphon the top out before racking.
 
I figured it out. It was suck back from the blow off sanitized water. Damn, I had too much head space in the vessel, so it sucked back a bunch. The bucket was low and the hose dipped, man it created a lot of pressure.

I hope I didn't ruin this batch! It's crazy how the Ringwood yeast kept it separated up top. I'm wondering if I can siphon the top out before racking.

Can you carefully rack from underneath the sanitizer?
 
Can you carefully rack from underneath the sanitizer?

I was thinking that, but I'm wondering if there is a film or a yeast cake up top that if i pierce throughout it, all the liquid will sink in. It just seems odd it separated, so I'm guessing there is a barrier.

I've never had this happen before, but it won't happen again. I'm done with carboys. I'm fermenting in kegs for now on.
 
Last night I picked up a bottle of Unibroue's Don De Deiu and was shocked to find that it tastes ridiculously close to this cider (at least the version I brewed). That beer is a wheat triple brewed using no fruit. Call me crazy, but go do the taste test for yourself.

Don De Deiu
 
Kegged my graff tonight, it fermented down to 1.006, I didn't take a starting reading so not sure what the abv is. Tasted a little dry, but not too bad. I think it'll be nicely balanced once chilled and carb'd.
 
Just bottled today. Tried a sample from the hydrometer. Man did this taste tart and a bit sour. Finished at 1.006 so it was done fermenting. In primary for three weeks 68F. Hopefully it'll taste smoother once carbed and chilled in fridge.
 
Does the apple flavor come through at little more as this ages? I just brewed this up per the recipe, and it's decent but I'm not getting as much apple flavor as I would like. It's only been in the keg 2 weeks though, just finished carbing so we'll see what happens.
 
brewed this up last night. Made the mistake of buying cider with potassium sorbate. I pitched some rehydrated US 05 yeast. Should i make a starter of us 05 to pitch in a few days if fermentation has not started? i have read u can ferment potassium sorbate but it takes a lot of healthly yeast. Did anyone get an krausen with this recipie? i need to get a hydrometer tonight i guess.... broke mine during the brew session last night
 
brewed this up last night. Made the mistake of buying cider with potassium sorbate. I pitched some rehydrated US 05 yeast. Should i make a starter of us 05 to pitch in a few days if fermentation has not started? i have read u can ferment potassium sorbate but it takes a lot of healthly yeast. Did anyone get an krausen with this recipie? i need to get a hydrometer tonight i guess.... broke mine during the brew session last night

My first batch, I pitched some weak Ringwood yeast. I didn't get any krausen. Maybe a small laceing on top... I turned our great though. We just about finished that keg.

The second batch is about to get kegged later today. I used the Ringwood from the other batch and did a starter. I had such a heavy fermentation the krausen was several inches. I fermented a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy, and I actually got blow off the first time. It was very little, but still it was in the tube.

Neither batches used the original recipe. I did my own all grain version for both. The major difference between the batches was the second one had more brown sugar than the first.
 
For all non-scientific beerology purposes, this is a cider. (I know, I know....but its got hops in it!)

Jay Huff and his apple bee got me started on some experiments and this is what I have come up with.

I noticed Ed's Apfelwein tasted super hoochy until it was about a year old. When it's about a year old tho it does taste like a good cider, but doesn't have the body a good cider does.

So, how can I make something that will taste good faster and also have body?

1. Get rid of the wine yeast and use a clean fermenting beer yeast
2. Get rid of that cheap sugar and use some light DME
3. Balance the tart flavor of young cider by using specialty grains.
4. Later on, I found hops also helped balance the overall flavor. BUT ONLY A TINY BIT, DO NOT USE MORE THAN CALLED FOR

If you like a clean, malty, not too tart easy drinking cider style beverage then this is your drink.

Materials needed for a 5 Gallon Batch

Clean fermenting yeast I have used Nottinham and Safale-05, both are good
.5 lbs of Crystal 60L If you use cheap store brand juice, I reccomend 120L. Cheap juice tends to turn out a tad tart and this will balance it.
1 oz of torrified wheat ( head retention, I've never used more than 2oz)
4 Gallons of apple juice.
1 gallon of water
2 lbs of DME ( I use 1 lb. amber and 1 lb. light DME)
0.5 oz of you favorite hops ( right around 6% AA, I have used 18.5% AA summit hops before and it took a month after kegging for strong bitterness to blend nicely)
WARNING! IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HOPS USED, MAKE IT LESS NOT MORE, it's really just too bitter with any more.

Directions for brewing

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.

Cool down the wort (if you choose not to cool the wort and just let the AJ do the cooling then your cider won't be as clear). I don't care about clarity so I just let the AJ do the cooling, but if you stick your pot in the freezer and let this get down to 70 degrees or so your cider will clear fairly easy. Pour the wort and apple juice into your carboy and pitch yeast.

Ferment 2 weeks at 64-68 degrees then keg or bottle.

I keg, and this stuff is VERY drinkable as soon as it is carbonated.
SUPERB taste and drinkability after 2-3 weeks of aging.

People bottling, it will have SUPERB taste and drinkability after the standard 3 week bottling period for carbonating.
"Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins."

My kettle has a 1 gallon per hour boil off rate. After the 30 minute boil, I would be adding 1/2 gallon of wort to the fermenter rather than a full gallon. Should I increase the original amount of wort by 1/2 gallon or just start with 1 gallon for the boil?
 
Kegged my graff tonight, it fermented down to 1.006, I didn't take a starting reading so not sure what the abv is. Tasted a little dry, but not too bad. I think it'll be nicely balanced once chilled and carb'd.

So it's been almost a week..my graff has mellowed in tartness and tastes better with good carbonation.
Estimating the abv at 6-6.5% since I never took an OG reading, and comparing to a 4.2% irish red.
Will probably add 64oz or so of apple juice per SWMBO's request.

I like it the way it is, she wants it sweeter.
Has decent head and retains for a couple minutes, next time I may try 2oz tor wheat and a pound of 120L instead of half pound... or maybe just better quality juice.

All in all a very nice beverage to have on tap to change things up.
 
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