Are we a bunch of tightwads?

Are homebrewers, as a group, tightwads? Think about it. How many threads have you read here where one of us posts to brag about their new MLT that they cobbled together for $3 out of parts that they found on the road on their way home from work? Or, how many efficiency threads have you seen where someone stays up for three days straight worrying about why their sparging technique is not getting that last 2 or 3% out of their grain (when 2 more lbs of the stuff would cost them $3 at their LBHS)? We make brew kettles out of old sanke kegs when professional grade SS stockpots that cost less than $100 can be had that will last years and years.

In contrast, if you go to forums for, say, photography, people there think nothing of spending $800-900 for a new lens and sometimes thousands of dollars for a new camera body that, in the digital age, will seem obsolete in 2 years. They buy stacks of the latest, biggest and fastest memory cards, all kinds of processing software (the new Photoshop will cost about $600 or 700 I think).

My wife just bought a new camera and two lenses. We felt that we got a good deal when we paid just under $700 for it. Can you imagine the fancy setup I could have bought for brewing beer for $700? Yet, if I had gone out and spent that money on a brewing setup and posted pictures here, I'm afraid people would think I'm some rich guy who has too much money to blow.

In a sense, though, it is refreshing, isn't it? So many hobbies nowadays are all about spending money on the biggest, newest, shiniest toys. Brewing, for most of us, seems to be an entirely different animal. It is a peaceful pastime. It really is more of a craft that, which a little bit of knowledge, experience and care, almost anyone can become pretty good at. It's not about having the coolest equipment, but rather about making good beer and enjoying it.

Thats what i like about brewing, its a cheap hobby, granted it can get expensive fast. I think its fun to build stuff your self and that just happens to be the cheapest way. I already have to many expensive hobby's, Flying being the major one, which i spend around 120 bucks for just one hour of fun.

There'd definately a pride factor in building your own gear, I think. I envy those who own really nice HERMS systems, but I truly admire those who built them themselves. There's a hands-on element that's enjoyable. I bet the majority of us also enjoy working on our houses, or working on our own cars, or doing other kinds of manual "work."

There's a bit of a competition - more an internal competition than anything else - that makes me want to have 80% efficiency instead of 70% (despite it being a $2 difference).

I would also argue that a keggle is the PERFECT size and shape for a brew kettle; I would take a keggle over a 60-quart SS stockpot

I dont see it as being "tightwads"... its being efficent... If somethign can be done on the cheap, with the same quality (or near enough) as spending bucket loads of cash... then why not be a tightarse about it...

I used to be really into computer modding. Was a similar situation in that community. Everyone would spend up big on computer hardware... then spend as little as possible on modding the thing to make it look good...


But yeah... theres a difference between "tightwad" and effiecnt

Proud tightwad here...

Partly, I feel some pressure (real or imagined) from SWMBO to keep the investments to a minimum. Also, I take some pride in being able to assemble a full AG rig frugally, I guess. Anyone can drop a couple grand on brew scuplture from b3, if they've got the money, after all.

McCall St. Brewer said:

In contrast, if you go to forums for, say, photography, people there think nothing of spending $800-900 for a new lens and sometimes thousands of dollars for a new camera body that, in the digital age, will seem obsolete in 2 years. They buy stacks of the latest, biggest and fastest memory cards, all kinds of processing software (the new Photoshop will cost about $600 or 700 I think).

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Most Photographers who get that deep into the hobby are either trying to make a few bucks out of it or are destination travelers who go on unique adventures and want to get the most out of their visit. If someone told me that they dropped $1,500 just to get snapshots of their dog, I'd think them a wasteful fool.

As for homebrewing, many of us have pretty decent investments in our breweries. I'm a little over a grand in for equipment (I think). I know some people are in a lot further than that.

I think that the type of person who is attracted to brewing is going to be a natural do it yourselfer already. otherwise why not just go out and buy a six pack. If you like brewing beer you probably like building stuff too!

in the why do we brew thread I posted because I can. this is really the truth! I also build high end tube audio equipment and high end speakers. in all reallity they rarely cost much less than the high end gear at the store and probably don't sound much better. (we all do love our own vintage though don't we) I do it cause I love it, and I can, and I want to!

I wouldn't use the word "cheap" - with its negative connotations. We are, however, consumed by a spirit of independence. I find that most homebrewers are proud to be working against consumerism and reliance upon commercial products; we are proud of our spirit of the DIY nature. Since this makes us very critical of where we spend our money and what we can do on our own, it makes us appear cheap to those capitalists who are attempting to provide the services we can create for ourselves at a much higher quality.

That being said, the owner/brewer at my local brewpub used to support a homebrew supply shop in the brewery. He closed it down long ago saying that homebrewers are too cheap . . . they don't spend enough money to keep a HBS afloat.

I honestly brew for two reasons. One has to do with money, but not the other.

I LOVE and have to drink good beer, buying it is not an option due to ridiculous prices on good beer.

I love art, I've been a painter, actor, musician, designer and now a brewer, its an art, no doubt about it. From building your equipment to building your recipes, unlike photography, you can build a stunning lense.... well you can, but it will only take one type of photo. YOu know those pinhole cameras made out of cardboard boxes?

Home brewing attracts all kinds of folks, tightwads, poor college students under the age of 21, people in Utah, people who love beer, people who want access to better beer, etc.

Each one is in a phase of the of what I call The Home Brewer Evolutionary Cycle. Many evolve to the next phase as they get older, more experienced, and as time goes on, their disposable income goes up too.

I've been through all of those phases, but now at my age, I'm fortunate enought to be able to "invest" in some of the gadgets that make Home Brewing easier, or make MORE Home Brew, or better home brew.

That's the cool thing about this hobby. It's open and available to all walks of life, even underage college students who don't shave yet.

I'm about $400 into the hobby and have got about 10 cases of beer to show for it.

$40 a case.

That's $1.67 per beer..... ouch!


But it is good beer!!!

Toot said:

I'm about $400 into the hobby and have got about 10 cases of beer to show for it.

$40 a case.

That's $1.67 per beer..... ouch!


But it is good beer!!!

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What's funny is that as soon as the question was posed, I immediately thought of you, Toot!

In a good way, of course...

Not tightwads...I'm an experimeter, scientist, adventurer...

There are certainly some cheapskates here, but no one on this board can match a small acreage farmer for cheap!

I'm probably somewhere in the middle. Most of my gear is purchased, but the most expensive item(s) have to be the four taps on the kegger.

Toot said:

I'm about $400 into the hobby and have got about 10 cases of beer to show for it.

$40 a case.

That's $1.67 per beer..... ouch!


But it is good beer!!!

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Try going to a restaurant and ordering a couple of Newcastel Brown Ales. You will probably die with you get the tab.

Cheesefood said:

Most Photographers who get that deep into the hobby are either trying to make a few bucks out of it or are destination travelers who go on unique adventures and want to get the most out of their visit. If someone told me that they dropped $1,500 just to get snapshots of their dog, I'd think them a wasteful fool.

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My dad always likes to say "ignorance is bliss." Cheese, I hate to rain your your parade, but you'd probably be dismaayed to find out how many people go out and plunk down a couple grand on camera gear and then post a picture of their dog or cat.

HAHA speaking of tightwads, just went on craigslist this morning, 2 6 gal carboys, and a mini keg for 20 bucks, and found a free kegerater that is less than a mile from my house. Emailed both of them, tough part is finding a way to get the fridge maybe i can just carry it the mile to my house. I really need a truck.

The other day I decided to go down the beer aisle at the grocery store. First time in months.

It killed me to pay $7.00 for a six of SNPA. NO more. Where's than clone recipe I had...

Now when we go out and get some Mexican food, I'll have a homebrew before we leave. Makes it easier to order just water for dinner.

There's a big difference between a $20 meal for two with no alcohol and a $35-$40 tab becuase you ordered a couple of beers.

My @ss squeaks when I walk.

I try to build what I can, but I don't have the space or tools (or skills) for doing a whole lot. I'm happy with the stuff I have built, though. It isn't necessarily cheaper to build your own stuff, but it's a lot more fun.

BierMuncher said:

Now when we go out and get some Mexican food, I'll have a homebrew before we leave. Makes it easier to order just water for dinner.

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We have a Mexican restaurant 4 minutes from where I live that serves the best fajitas in Austin. They don't serve beer or wine....Ya have to bring your own if you want it. Yeah BABY! Now that's a cheap dinner date!

Chiming in as a relative newcomer to brewing and a moneysaver (according to the man) ...

There are things in life I don't mind spending money on, but if I can get quality at a good price simply by:

researching,
using coupons,
waiting for a sale,
etc...

then I will. If this makes me a tightwad, then I am. Myself, I think it's smart because I work for a living; I'm going to get the most for my money without sacrificing too much if possible.

I like getting good deals on brewing equipment, but if we want/need something we'll get it and pay full price if we need to.

anyway, my $.02

I'm fruggle in my hobby but have still spent around $1,600 on equipment in the 3+ years I've been with this hobby. Basically, I wait for the bargain to come to me and am in no hurry to get to the end game. The 3-tier I built below including keg came to about $280 bucks. Frame was built from a buddy at my work who refused to take any cash...



Now if my other buddy would finish up my boil keg .

BierMuncher said:

...It killed me to pay $7.00 for a six of SNPA. NO more. Where's than clone recipe I had...

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I had a SNPA a couple of weeks ago...I took one sip and it was like trying to swallow razor blade chips. Disgusting (and painful)!

Toot said:

I'm about $400 into the hobby and have got about 10 cases of beer to show for it.
$40 a case.
That's $1.67 per beer..... ouch!
But it is good beer!!!

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If I do the same math, I'm at about $2.50 a beer...and I brewed 75 gallons in the latter half of last year...

I'm not a tightwad, but I definitely love making my own brew gadgets. An advantage of making my own brew equipment is the cost of doing so. The brew equipment that I want costs a TON of money to buy outright (large stainless fermenters, temperature controlled storage, computer controllers, etc, etc). I've found ways to fit those expensive toys into my budget by making my own.

By the same token, the college student who ferments his 2 gallon, boiled on a hotplate, hopped extract batch in separate 1 gallon water bottles is effectively doing exactly what I'm doing: improvising in order to fit a potentially expensive hobby into his budget.

It's not being cheap - it's doing what you can afford. If we could all afford this, most of us would probably own one by now.

What I admire about Toot is that he is trying to create a recipe for a post apocalyptic world.

My problem with using DME is... what if the world ends tomorrow? What if I'm the only person left? How will I get DME? The answer is that I can't. I'll have to malt my own grains and I sure as hell ain't going to be worried about making DME.

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https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=260116&postcount=4

I know that looks like I'm busting on him, but I'm not.

olllllo said:

What I admire about Toot is that he is trying to create a recipe for a post apocalyptic world.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=260116&postcount=4

I know that looks like I'm busting on him, but I'm not.

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Hell, I want to be friends with Toot, for just that very reason!

So far I am saving no money on this hobby. I'm about $500 in in terms of equipment with plans to spend at least another $500 before the end of the year.

Like Buford I am limited in terms of what I can make myself, so a lot of my equipment is purchased new. I do make what I can just for the sheer joy it brings me to know I made something myself (which is the reason I started brewing in the first place).

I've spent my share of hard earned monies on a hobby that I really enjoy. But I'm doing it for the long haul. Spend now and save later. I'm starting to get to the point of not enjoying mass produced commercialized beer. It's beginning to taste way too chemical to me. I like the natural flavor of beer that has been brewed by myself or another homebrewer. That in itself is worth the effort of buying or even growing your own and making a great tasting product. Very satisfying and a gratuitous hobby. Nothing like kicking back with a good homebrew and knowing that you are the one that made it.

Now if could just get my damn homemade stirplate wired right!

If I do the same math, I'm at about $2.50 a beer...

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You guys are confusing capital investment with operating costs. You have a capital investment ratio of $2.50 per beer brewed. Nothing wrong with that because the equipment you've purchased is a long life asset and will withstand many, many years of brewing.

What you guys are doing is like buying a new car, driving it to the grocery store and saying it cost $5,000 per mile !

What you need to do consider is your return on capital. How many beers did you brew and how much did you save on them ? Then, take the savings and divide them by the capital employed.

So Yuri brewed 75 gallons. That's 852 beers. And he saved 75 cents a beer or $639. He has spent $2.50 per beer on capital equipment. His ROC is 75 cents/ $2.50 or 30%. That's a darn good ROI ! That's an after tax return as well ! And he will get that return year after year, for as long as he brews. Its darn hard to match that return in the stock market year after year.

See... we should all sell our investments and buy brewing equipment ! *laughs

As a weekend sports shooter with my own photography business... I'll agree w/ you about photography being an expensive hobby. Heck, I just got a pair of 8 GB CF cards dropped off from UPS this morning...leaving me with some stupid amount like 40Gb worth of storage. Last year alone I probably put down 5 grand just in hardware expenses, which trust me is beans compared to what some people spend. Heck, I was at a studio where the owner called in an order for over 5 grand on lights like he just ordered cheap chinese food.

At any rate... photography is expensive because good equiptment costs a lot of money and you cannot build yourself. Homebrew is a DIYer's dream hobby...and why pay someone to build something simple when you can do it yourself?

If you could easily build your own lens that mounted to a popular camera body and performed better than commercial lenses...you would see TONS of people doing it. Just aint possible.

sirsloop said:

...Heck, I was at a studio where the owner called in an order for over 5 grand on lights like he just ordered cheap chinese food...

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And I'm here sweating about ordering three more used cornies for $18.00 apiece.

Sqeak.......

I will spend money but I don't like to waste money. I also like to figure how something can be made out of what I have available. Even if I bought a turn-key system I would still tinker around with it and spend more money. And if I can make the part I need out of something I find along side the road, even better. I call it inventive, not tight.

Like Shimms said, I see nothing wrong with trying to save money whenever, and wherever possible. For us that means coupons, comparison shopping between Costco and our grocery store, and driving behind the cheddar curtain to hit the cheap grocery store in Kenosha rather than shopping locally.

That said, we spent money up front for our beginning kit, that was at full price.

But since then we've purchased a dinged Better Bottle ($15 rather than $20, and it works perfectly), a license for Beersmith (full price), a cooler for a mash tun (that was effectively almost free because I had a store credit), the fittings for the mash tun (full price) and a bunch of equip off CL (two glass carboys, a turkey fryer burner and a 7 gal SS brew pot) all for $100.

So we're a mixed bag. But all in all, we've not spent a huge fortune on this hobby.

I've been doing this since the end of January and I'm about $600 into it now... maybe more, don't really want to count. Shipping was a bitc# to Germany, but I had to learn so I bought a LOT of stuff and had it shipped.

Brewpastor said:

I will spend money but I don't like to waste money.

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On Point! -> ...and coming from someone who probably has the most into it on HBT!

BierMuncher said:

And I'm here sweating about ordering three more used cornies for $18.00 apiece.

Sqeak.......

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Its just the difference between your personal lifestyle and a business. Companies have a lot more cash flow going on.... I setup a $70,000 voip colo out in California a couple weeks ago and it was just another day in the office

Well, you know what...

One reason I love this hobby (I have lots of reasons) is that the more I brew and drink the more money I save!!!!!!


hang on... that's what swmbo says when she goes shopping in the sales!


Surely beer is different to shoes.

orfy said:

hang on... that's what swmbo says when she goes shopping in the sales!

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yeah man... thats a swmbo thought process right there. If I go to Ny&Co and get 25% off of my $200 bill... I just saved $50!! (NO, YOU JUST SPEND $150)

I don't think we as homebrewers are tightwads...

The more money we save on equipment the more we can use on beer....
And after all as the hobby progresses you get to higher end equipment spending a little more than last time...
As homebrewers we know how to use money to our advantage and make it work.

For me part of the hobby is creativity, which is not just around the beer, but the process and the equipment. Creativity isn't always expensive. My system has cost a lot, but that is because there is a lot to it. In the same way a photographer wants certain pieces of equipment so he can do particular things, so to with my system I am always on the look out for something that will let me do some new thing or do it easier, or better. The toys are means to an end and the creation of them is an end in and of itself. The nice thing about brewing, as opposed to photograghy, is that are equiment, while specific, does not have to be exact in the way a lens or shutter does. So a piece of roadside trash that fits the bill is as good as one you buy.