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So what is the consensus from everyone on should he stay or go?

Doesn't look like the USMNT will be involved in the copa America next year. More or less building toward Russia 2018 now. U-23s look to be out of the Olympics (pretty much directly related to JK planning/policy). Seems like if a change is needed, there is no better time than after the Costa Rica friendly.

Only reason we'd lose the Copa is if it leaves the US. Which it may, but I'm pretty sure if it did, we'd be in it anyway. What sells more tickets, having USA in there or Jamaica/Haiti?

Anyway I won't debate the merits, to me ther'es no doubt that Klinsmann has done some pretty great things with much less talent than Arena and Bradley. While the youth system isn't doing insane stuff, they did a great job at the U-20s world cup. They still could go to th eOlympics (though it's unlikely) and there's more exciting prospects in the pipeline than any time since maybe like 10 years ago when Bradley, Jozy, etc. were all young.

What's the ultimate judge of Klinsmann's success is first 2018 and more importantly long term. If in 2018 we advance to the semi-finals like he wants to, then he'll be a patron saint of American soccer. WHat we really need to look for is the young guys and how they're developing. And long term you need to look at how the youth players now become professionals. That's also ta thing,
 
So what is the consensus from everyone on should he stay or go?

Doesn't look like the USMNT will be involved in the copa America next year. More or less building toward Russia 2018 now. U-23s look to be out of the Olympics (pretty much directly related to JK planning/policy). Seems like if a change is needed, there is no better time than after the Costa Rica friendly.

So after the Fabian Johnson thing & last nights dull loss...still give him another world cup cycle?
 
Seems like this team needs a complete overhaul from the players to the coach. Find some guys who appreciate the opportunity to represent their country instead of entitled old guys pouting when things don't go how they want. That abortion last night was un -watchable.
 
They don't have the players I don't really see this as the coaches fault. You need world class players to beat world class players on a constant basis. Who is World Class on the USA team on a consistent basis?

Look at the talent on wee Wales compared to US.
 

I know this is in jest, but just a reminder, Mourinho makes $17 million per year (before any bonuses) while Klinsmann makes $2 million, the pay gap is huge between international ball and club ball. The only way to get an international coach is to have them be passionate about the country, or to have them like to take on "projects" and improve the game in that country.
 
Seems like this team needs a complete overhaul from the players to the coach. Find some guys who appreciate the opportunity to represent their country instead of entitled old guys pouting when things don't go how they want. That abortion last night was un -watchable.

I'd largely agree on the players. US doesn't have a superstar under 30 right now. Bradley is the closest, Fabian Johnson probably right behind him. THere's no Dempsey, no Donovan. Jozy wound up being a bust, and we have some good potential young guys in Brooks, Yedlin, Zardes, Green, Gyau, Wood, and a lot of really talented younger players from our U-20 World Cup roster. We need them to develop, and probably to develop as fast as humanly possible.
 
So after the Fabian Johnson thing & last nights dull loss...still give him another world cup cycle?

Yup. Klinsmann is the only man with Gulati's ear. He's the only one who can get a real youth system in place in this country. Klinsmann has been working with him.

I have little doubt that we'll qualify for the World Cup, people forget we have a long time before the Hex. First we have to just get out of our easy group. We should coast out of that. Hopefully in that time our players have thinned out who has it and who doesn't.

What I'm looking forward to is finally seeing the Cameron/Brooks combo. Brooks has more raw ability than any CB I've ever seen for the US, and Cameron would provide him the veteran leadership.
 
Jozy Altidore lost his God damn mind tonight. Maybe he was cranky from the USMNT's recent form or maybe it was because he's been involved in so many games in the last week or so and he's tired, but he was on the bench at Toronto FC for their game against the Red Bulls. After Perquis was fouled Jozy said something, we don't know what, to the officials and was given a straight red for abusive language. Video below (they don't figure it out until about 1:20 that Jozy is sent off).

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/10/14/red-card-jozy-altidore-dismissed-bench#ooid=J1bTk3eDoIr3NSJlMVM58eoUy7XVTBGh

It's worth noting, for those unfamiliar with MLS, that if he used racist or homophobic language his ban will extend to four games. This comes at the worst possible time for Toronto FC, if Altidore is indeed out for four games he will miss the first two playoff matches Toronto is in, which could very well be the only two (or even one) playoff games Toronto has. Even if it's just a single game ban, Toronto's next game is against Columbus Crew FC, who could jump back into 2nd and kick Toronto back into the "wildcard" rounds with a win.
 
With all the clamoring for Klinsmann's resignation, here's a pretty objective article surrounding the state of youth soccer in the states. It touches on some reasons why the usmnt struggles in international competition.

http://www.thecoachingjourney.org/1/post/2015/10/-the-real-problems-behind-our-national-team.html

I read that last night as well. Good article. While I don't agree with everything there, he makes some good points. The MLS comments aren't going to go down well here.
 
Just finished reading over all the topics & questions from the Arsenal AGM.
What an embarrassment some of those supporters are with their petty antagonizing questions.
Wouldn't be surprised if Stan closes the AGM to the public next year.

Some people need to get a grip on life & what's important.
 
The article is pretty accurate about the use of dollars paid to players. Take nysc. Pirlo and Lampard make north of 8 million collectively. Certainly that money is better spent on younger, up an coming players or used to attract talent not at Premier League level but have more value than a player willing to play for less than a 100k.

We see the player disparity in the concacaf. It takes 11 quality players on the field. Playing one or two dogs and your team is at a disadvantage.

Disclosure: center circle season ticket holders Columbus Crew.
 
With all the clamoring for Klinsmann's resignation, here's a pretty objective article surrounding the state of youth soccer in the states. It touches on some reasons why the usmnt struggles in international competition.

http://www.thecoachingjourney.org/1/post/2015/10/-the-real-problems-behind-our-national-team.html

I definitely agree with the portion on youth development and the idea that the USMNT players should challenge themselves to try to succeed in Europe. I'm less on board with the idea that MLS's setup is necessarily a problem.

As far as the youth system, I think this is where US Soccer is going to have the biggest issues reforming things. People are already up in arms at the idea of changing the age format so it goes by calendar year instead of the school year because of the "social" issues and because their little snowflake may not be so dominant anymore. But the point of youth development systems isn't to win in soccer, nor to be the best, but to give everyone the training they need to improve and US parents simply don't grasp the idea. After all, in the American systems for football, baseball, etc. every game is competitive, but those sports don't really require the same sort of mental development that soccer does.

The money issue is also a major problem, since pay for play will cut out the vast majority of our playing pool. What's more, these pay to play systems are often competitive, which isn't good for development of the player. Unifying the systems and making it about learning the proper skills is the right way to do things, but parents scream that there's no reason to do that. Ultimately the problem is that, in the American mindset, it's all about the individual, but soccer requires a collectivist effort and sacrifice by the group to succeed.

As far as the criticism of MLS, I'm going to disagree with the idea that promotion/relegation makes for a better, more competitive league or team; you know what does? Money. Large piles of money. Statistics show us this, time and time again, that when it comes to winning, spending enough money will quite literally buy you success over time. The biggest spending team in MLS right now is Toronto FC, they spent $20 million dollars, which in MLS terms is a lot; but that mighty top dollar amount wouldn't even get you into the relegation battle for the EPL, Crystal Palace spent about $19 million pounds sterling, or about $30 million US. An argument could and has been made that MLS might have better success and quality by spreading their money out more, and that's not entirely a bad point, but aside from the reserves and rookies, most MLS players make six figures, which in a league where the maximum is seven figures, that's not bad. Even the median salary (which is a good way of cancelling out outliers on the high and low levels) comes in at about $100,000 per year. Guys like Kaka and Pirlo are outliers even among the designated players (aka stars) of MLS, most of them make $1-2 million and some make only high six figure sums. However, all of this discussion ignores one simple fact: MLS does things this way because otherwise the whole damn thing collapses. NASL blew up, in no small part, because the big teams could vastly outspend the little teams and the only way to keep up was to go into debt, otherwise nobody showed up at the stadiums because they didn't want to watch one team get annihilated for 2 hours. Without a salary cap of some sort in place, MLS would collapse just as surely as NASL and then we're without a top tier soccer league again.
 
You're right. It's a money issue all the way around. Larger corporate sponsor and better TV contracts would go a long way to bring in higher quality players.

On the youth side, money goes a long way to buy quality coaching. Currently I coach a premier U-12 boys and U-12 girls team. I see it all the time. Parents judge the quality of the team by the amount of wins and goal differential. Our teams when they were younger lost to teams who weren't very technically sound, but athletic. The recipe is to put the guy who can kick a long ball on defense and in goal and play your fastest athletes in front. Play direct and let the fast kids chase the long ball and press high so the opposing team has difficulty playing out of the back. Those teams are successful until the game moves to 8v8 or 9v9 when it takes more organization to penetrate. We've always built from the back line so we lost a few to those teams. The table has turned now that we're on a larger, more populated field.

The point being many of the parents of the direct team thought their kids were receiving quality development because most parents don't know any better. By the time they figure it out, it's really late in the development period.

In our town, we are trying to partner with the local parks dept and local corporate money to offset some of the club fees and make playing soccer more affordable while still offering a quality product. It's mildly successful. Our fees are less than $500/year to play in the top league in our region. That's a fraction of the normal price to play club in our area.

Here's an article about a kc club doing the same thing. IMO, this is the way to develop a broader base of quality players. I doubt it'll happen too often. The established clubs make too much money off Johnny and Susie.

Have a read. It's an interesting article.

http://thecoachingjourney.org/1/post/2015/07/money-does-not-buydevelopment.html
 
Whether or not you're an MLS fan, there's some potentially very interesting games coming up this week, with only two weeks left in the season there are potentially four teams about to be kicked out of the playoffs. Depending on how things shake out, MLS's playoff picture could be set on everything but the seeding by Sunday. What's more, almost all of the important games are on national cable channels!

Orlando vs NYCFC, Unimas, tonight 7 pm EST
Orlando is barely clinging to their playoff hopes, anything except a win here means they're out of the playoffs and the eastern conference playoff field is set. Even if they do win, they need Montreal to lose at least one of their remaining two, so it's a slim hope at best.

San Jose vs Sporting KC, Unimas, tonight 11 pm EST
San Jose is the most likely to nab a playoff spot, with "Goonies never die!" and Dominic Kinear behind them, I have a hard time betting against them. Sporting KC has already made the playoffs, but they're scrabbling to stay in the top 4 so they aren't stuck making an away trip to their opponent, so there's a lot of motivation on both sides here. One other thing to note, the last time they played each other the Quakes started their late season comeback by beating Sporting KC 5-0 in Kansas City.

Houston vs Seattle, Sunday 5 pm EST, ESPN 2
The Sounders have yet to clinch a spot and Houston is hanging on by the barest of threads. A win here means that Seattle are in for sure, and could jump them as high as third in the standings, while Houston needs to win every game to even have any chance of getting to the playoffs. I fully expect some fireworks from both teams, Houston's back line has been shaky and the Sounders' back line is banged up and makeshift.

LA vs Portland, Sunday 7 m EST, Fox Sports 1
The Galaxy are in a prime spot to try to take the Supporter's Shield, but Portland is fighting for its very life. It's possible for this game to eliminate 3 teams all at once, if Real Salt Lake and Houston Dynamo win and San Jose loses, all three would sit on 44 points, while Portland sits on 47 a Portland win or a tie would eliminate all three teams at once in devastating fashion.

So this weekend it's worthwhile to come for the fun soccer, stay for the emotional devastation!
 
Oh I agree, not a chance in hell. I could see him giving up some money, but a roughly 80% pay cut? Nah.
 
FC Dallas beat Real Salt Lake tonight, catapulting Dallas into the driver's seat of the Supporter's Shield standings, eliminating RSL from the playoffs and ending their playoffs streak at 7 years in a row.

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Kyle Beckerman and Nick Rimando, USMNT stalwarts, both play for RSL. Luis Gil currently is doing great things on the USMNT U-23 team.


How are they out?

With one game left, they need six points.

What went wrong?
In a big way, the biggest issue is simply that they're a small market team, unable or unwilling to spend big bucks on top tier talent to compete in the ultra-competitive western conference. Jason Kreis may have taken this team to the playoffs for over half a decade on superior coaching and confidence alone, but without him at the helm you get what you pay for. Piling on top of the loss of Kreis, this offseason RSL fired long time general manager Garth Lagerway; now RSL ownership claims that the trade of Matt Borchers to Portland caused Lagerway to get the boot, but if so that's a grave mistake, as Lagerway (supposedly) got a big pile of allocation money for the veteran center back who is 34 years old this year. With all of that said, I still think RSL needs to fire Cassar and bring in a coach that is great with youth, not unlike FC Dallas. Cassar has implemented a defensive bunker and counter strategy this year, his first year with the full reigns in hand, and much like Colorado, this simply isn't good enough in the modern MLS. In the larger picture, RLS's training academy is sub-par and hasn't generated any really great talent yet.

What went right?
Nick Rimando continues to make insane saves and Kyle Beckerman's veteran leadership and play continues to keep him at the top of the best center mids in MLS list.

What do they need to do improve?
Number one with a bullet is that RSL must improve their youth academies, players like Rimando and Beckerman won't be around forever and we can already see their decline, without great young talent to replace them RSL will sink further down the rankings. RSL will likely have a good draft pick, they should aim for a left or right midfielder, preferably a winger, to complement their attack. They may also want to start the search in earnest for a replacement to Kyle Beckerman. They should probably fire Jeff Cassar and bring in a coach that knows how to work with young players especially, RSL is one of the leagues youngest teams overall even though Cassar preferred veteran players in his starting 11.
 
The eliminations are coming fast now, the Houston Dynamo are out of the playoffs despite a hard fought draw against Seattle. The Dynamo were in for a tough transition no matter what else happened, moving to the western conference and changing coaches for the first time in their history, so let's see how it went.

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Brad Davis, who has seen a few call ups for the USMNT plays for Houston. Beyond that there's a whole host of players for opposing nations on the Dynamo and some potential players for the USMNT in the future.

How are they out?
With a single game left, they need at least 6 points.

What went wrong?
Surprisingly, Erick "Cubo" Torres, there was a lot of buzz over who in MLS would secure the rights to the diminutive striker after Chivas USA collapsed, and MLS negotiated hard to get him back in MLS from Guadalajara who still owned the right, but for whatever reason since arriving in Houston he hasn't rated for Owen Coyle and has spent most of his time on the bench. Beyond that, surprisingly, the defense, the Dynamo have given up more goals than anyone else in the western conference. Likely this defense weak point is due to Owen Coyle's attempt to bring a more offensive attitude to a team primarily designed for defense and counter attacks.

What went right?
Brad Davis continues to put in great left crosses, even if he is getting a bit creaky and slow. Will Bruin had probably his best season yet and consistently scores double digits every season. Tyler Deric is a very good keeper.

What do they need to do improve?
For starters, they need to figure out to do with "Cubo", if he doesn't rate under Coyle's system then he needs to be traded to a team that could use him, otherwise that's big money (for MLS) just rotting on the bench; Houston could probably get a couple of decent midfielders or strikers for Torres. Beyond that, if Houston wants to get more offensive, they need a midfield that's better at offense and a back line that's a bit younger, that's a big project for one offseason but it's still possible. Houston also needs to improve their youth academy, the only youth product they've gotten is Tyler Deric, and while that's something it needs to be better for a small market team.
 
The buzz around Darlington Nagbe playing for the USMNT seems to be building. Personally I'm curious to see how he would do under Klinsmann, but not particularly optimistic given that all his supposedly great movement and passes never result in anything. What do you guys think?
 
The buzz around Darlington Nagbe playing for the USMNT seems to be building. Personally I'm curious to see how he would do under Klinsmann, but not particularly optimistic given that all his supposedly great movement and passes never result in anything. What do you guys think?

I think I'd rather see how Nagbe does under a different manager.
 
every single team has its group of idiots.
happened yesterday too in Manchester before city v sevilla.

Oh absolutely. The Chelsea supporters on the train in France. The Gooner supporters ripping down signage after playing Tottenham. But Italy and Eastern Europe are notoriously vicious.
 
Oh absolutely. The Chelsea supporters on the train in France. The Gooner supporters ripping down signage after playing Tottenham. But Italy and Eastern Europe are notoriously vicious.

Yep. Even tottenham have knuckleheads.
I went to an old firm derby in Glasgow many years ago and it was downright scary at times.

Outside magazine did a great piece on south American ultras several years ago. Very long, but worth the read -> http://www.outsideonline.com/1924266/beautiful-game
 
Yep. Even tottenham have knuckleheads.
I went to an old firm derby in Glasgow many years ago and it was downright scary at times.

Outside magazine did a great piece on south American ultras several years ago. Very long, but worth the read -> http://www.outsideonline.com/1924266/beautiful-game

Never been, don't really follow either team, but I have many friends who are huge Celtic FC fans, and from what I understand there basically is no rivalry more intense in football. Once you have entire organized sections of fans singing songs about committing genocide against the other side's fans, that's a little over the line. Granted they all get in trouble for it. But it keeps happening. Neighborhood rivalries, historical rivalries, some such issue with some historical feud over something stupid at some point, sure. But you toss religion and Imperial occupation in there, and I understand how things get messy.
 
For those that may be interested, MLS's final day of the season is being called "Decision Day", all games in each conference will be played at the same time on Sunday. Fox Sports 1 starts with the eastern conference at 5 pm EST, where they will jump between games to find the most interesting parts, while ESPN gets the west at 7 pm EST. I'll be watching the Sounders on my local station, but it may be worth your while to watch the nationally televised bits, if only to see who makes the playoffs of the various USMNT players.
 
And just like that Harry Kane is back. 5-1 massacre against Bournemouth, with Harry getting a hat trick. 1st half they scored first and fast filling me with dread, but it was mainly Cherries paying dearly for errors the rest of the half. They stepped it up in the second, but so did we. Good start to a Sunday.

And Chelsea losing again and Mourinho getting sent off to boot is always fun. Was hoping Toffees could pull it off yesterday but no such luck.
 
So, Orlando City are out after "Decision Sunday", let's see how they did.

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Brek Shea, sometimes left winger for the USMNT plays as a left back for the Purple Lions. Cyle Larin plays for our northern rivals and looks to be a pretty good striker. There's a smattering of young American talent on the roster that could be something someday.

How are they out?
They needed to win on Sunday and get some help in goal differential, neither thing happened.

What went wrong?
By far the biggest mistake Orlando City made was signing young Designated Player Bryan Rochez and then not utilizing him. If you're going to spend that much money on a player, he cannot be a bench warmer. Beyond that, Orlando didn't make a lot of mistakes, as an expansion side things turned out pretty well for them.

What went right?
Break Shea did great work at left back, combined with young designated player on the left wing Orlando may have the strongest left side in MLS. Kaka seems to have found a fountain of youth that lets him play pretty well despite his age and Cyle Larin lived up to his place in the MLS Super Draft. Aurelian Colin did some good things at center back too. As an expansion team this is a pretty good result, you didn't get into the playoffs but you were in the running for it until literally the very end.

What do they need to do improve?
Orlando can't keep Bryan Rochez on the bench, they either need to switch to a 4-3-3 or they need to trade him so they can bring in another DP in the midfield or back line. Outside of Carlos Rivas, the midfield for Orlando City was pretty much rubbish and it's the single biggest spot they need to improve, Adrian Winter is a solid pick up but they need a bit more than just two good midfielders. Orlando City also need to improve on defense, they had the second worst goals against in MLS, after the three way tie for first between Toronto, NYCFC and Chicago, Brek Shea and Aurelian Colin do good work, but the rest of the back line is garbage. Finally, they need to fix their discipline issues, only Montreal saw more red cards than Orlando.
 
The MLS playoffs are here! After a nail-biting Decision Day, New York Red Bulls, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas and the Vancouver Whitecaps took the top four spots and have a bye week; surprisingly all of those teams are relatively small spenders, relying on good coaching to get to where they are. Also worth noting is that most of those teams (outside of the Red Bulls) have a lot of young talent, kids not yet making the "big bucks", by and large. Before anyone has to face the mighty elite four though, they need to get out of the "Play-in" round, unfortunately all of them are on Unimas, a channel that many don't get. Either way, here's how I see those matches playing out:

DC United vs New England Revolution, 7:30 EST Unimas
This is the match up between two of the east's most lackluster regular season teams. Both teams played defensive, dull soccer for the most part and both teams have been mired in bad results recently. Neither team are big spenders either. New England managed to get a win out of their last regular season match, but DC United was smacked around 4-0 in Columbus. This match is going to be played in DC though, which could give United an edge. Ultimately I think this comes down to who has the better night, Lee Nguyen or Fabian Espindola, both have under performed recently and both are key to their team's offenses. Personally, I'm giving this one to New England though, 2-1 Revolution

Seattle Sounders FC vs LA Galaxy, 10 pm EST Unimas
The two biggest spenders in the MLS west face on in Seattle in a mega fight most thought would happen in the conference semi-finals or even the western final at the start of the year. Both teams have had bad stretches due to injuries and both teams have at times looked unbeatable this season, a sort of Jekyll and Hyde situation. Historically LA have done well against Seattle, but the Sounders are playing this match up at home where they traditionally do very well, LA has unusually struggled on the road this season. The optimistic Sounders fan in me would like to say Seattle will win this handily, but the pessimistic side of me says it ain't happening, Goes to penalties on a 1-1 scoreline, LA wins on penalties

Montreal Impact vs Toronto FC, Unimas 7 pm EST
Montreal and Toronto just played in Montreal on Sunday, a match that gave Montreal the upper hand in this playoff match up. Toronto lost on Sunday, but will anyone bet against the presumptive MVP winner Sebastian Giovinco to show up big when it counts? The Impact will need to contain the offensive power of Toronto, but if they can and get out on the counter, nobody in the league has been softer on defense all year. My prediction: 3-2 Montreal in overtime

Portland Timbers vs Sporting KC, Unimas 10 pm EST
Two midmarket western conference teams clash in Portland after both won their last games to guarantee a playoffs spot. Sporting KC beat LA at home 2-1, while Portland slapped Colorado 3-1. For Portland, Fanendo Adi has caught fire at just the right time, Darlington Nagbe, perhaps spurred on by the USMNT rumors, has upped his game and become productive in the last two games in a way he usually isn't. On the other hand, Kristian Nemeth is doing crazy things for Sporting KC and Dom Dwyer is always a menace. Portland hasn't dropped many points at home this year though, so I'm going to give the edge to them, 1-0 Portland Timbers
 
I completely forgot about the San Jose quakes, but then again, so did everyone else (ba dum tish). How did the other team in California do?

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Infamous shot misser Chris Wondolowski is the star player for San Jose, but they also have some potentially great young talent in Tommy Thompson and Fatai Alashe, both of whom have played well for USMNT youth teams.

How are they out?
The Quakes needed to win and for either the Sounders or Sporting KC to lose, none of that happened.

What went wrong?
In a lot of ways, it was all the little things that sank San Jose this season, they dropped a lot of points when they should have had them in the bag. In a big way you can see this in the goal differential, San Jose is the only team out of the playoffs with a positive goal differential, and they actually have a better goal differential than Portland, but many of those goals came from games they ran away, like the 5-0 thumping of Sporting KC. In a larger sense, Dominic Kinnear hasn't utilized his talented group of youngster to full effect, opting for veteran knowledge over youthful eagerness, but that can and will come back to bite this team in the long run as many of their veterans are aging out.

What went right?
Quincy Amerikwa came over from the Chicago Fire and had an immediate impact, scoring goals. Chris Wondolowski had 16 goals, showing little sign of slowing up. The Quakes are no longer hemorrhaging goals like they used to, and were one of the better teams defensively in the league this year.

What do they need to do improve?
The team can't rely on Wondolowski to score their goals forever, he's 32, but even now you can see some signs that he's beginning to lose a step or two. There's plenty of talented youth on this team to step up, but until Dominic Kinnear is willing to utilize it, it is just so much wasted time, that needs to change as this roster is rapidly running out of time. Beyond that, overall the midfield simply isn't good enough, and they need to bolster things in that direction if they want to be successful.
 
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