the marmite missions

hi all, i know there's been a few threads speculating the possibility of making one's own marmite from leftover trub, but don't think anyone's come up with a close recipe yet!

so i was thinking, since the whole method is "top secret", maybe if those of us who actually like marmite, all try different methods and put our findings together, we just might discover "the secret"...

so, all i've gathered is:

from marmite's site:

"Making Marmite
The basic production method has changed little since Marmite was first invented. Basically, the used brewer's yeast is broken down to release soluble amino acids and proteins. This soluble material is then concentrated and filtered a few times before going through a unique (and top secret) process for flavour development.
At the end of all this, we end up with yeast extract paste - nearly Marmite but not quite. The finishing touches make all the difference. We add an extra blend of vitamins, vegetable and spice extracts to create the taste your mouth adores!"

from wikipedia:
"Manufacture
Whilst the actual process is secret, the general method for making yeast extract on a commercial scale is to add salt to a suspension of yeast making the solution hypertonic, which leads to the cells shrivelling up; this triggers "autolysis", in which the yeast self-destructs. The dying yeast cells are then heated to complete their breakdown, after which the husks (yeast have thick cell walls which would detract from the smooth texture of the final product) are separated out. As with other yeast extracts, Marmite contains free glutamic acids, which are analogous to monosodium glutamate"

and then Eadweard on another forum (www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk) tried that:

"I tried making marmite by boiling down yeast at the end of a brew and adding some salt. I didn't work. I had, in fact, made the most revolting thing I've ever tasted. It was more concentrated hop bitterness than marmite. If you've ever tried eating a hop pellet you may have some idea what it tasted like. Anyway, it was totally foul, even in very small doses."


so i think we should all try different methods, like switch it around, first add the salt, so the yeasties die, then heat it up...
maybe experiment with different temperatures, and strain the whole mess etc etc..

maybe that's why the guy's experiment tasted bad, because the yeast husks/ cell walls were still there?? how to "seperate" them?

we might need some help from biologists or something.

and then log our findings here...hehe
opensource homebrewmite ver 0.0.0.1

don't exclude the possibility of industrial espionage, maybe someone knows someone who works for the company or something...

I'd be interested in this.

Just out of curiosity, how is this stuff consumed? What does it taste like? Other European spreads (Nutella for example) are delicious-but Marmite sounds a little gross IMHO. Of course, I'd imagine you need to experience it before passing judgement.

It's tastes very much like the juice you get on the bottom of a roasting tray after roasting beef and it reduces down with added salt.

It is spread thinly on buttered bread or toast. Very savoury and packed with taste. you need very little.

You can add it to gravy to taste. Also had a spoon full to a cup of boiling water for a warm drink.

orfy said:

It's tastes very much like the juice you get on the bottom of a roasting tray after roasting beef and it reduces down with added salt.

It is spread thinly on buttered bread or toast. Very savoury and packed with taste. you need very little.

You can add it to gravy to taste. Also had a spoon full to a cup of boiling water for a warm drink.

Click to expand...

Interesting-that sounds good actually. The jars look small, so I figured it was pretty concentrated. Seems like you could use it like bullion cubes.

Yes.............................

I'm interested also.

from http://www.sanitarium.co.nz/default.asp?sectionID=18#sm
Sourcing the Yeast
To make Sanitarium Marmite yeast is purchased from breweries and bakers yeast suppliers throughout New Zealand. Yeast is a natural source of B vitamins, which include thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, B12 and folate. Marmite is made from yeast extract, which is four, or five times more concentrated than yeast, making it even healthier.

Mixing the Ingredients
Once the yeast has been analysed and passed all the tests it is placed in a vat that holds about 8000 litres. It is mixed with a ratio of dry powdered yeast, sugar, mineral salt and maltodextrin, and once mixed thoroughly the yeast is placed onto autolysis in the large vats. This means that the yeast cells are deactivated using enzymes, a process that takes 15 hours. A secret blend of herbs and spices is then added to create that unique Marmite taste and caramel is added to enhance the colour.

Heat Treatment
Once ingredients are added and mixed thoroughly, the Marmite is heated up for 90 minutes to develop flavour and prevent microbiological spoilage.

Evaporation
After heat treatment the Marmite is transferred slowly into large kettles, which stirs and evaporates the moisture out of the Marmite, and turns the Marmite from a liquid into a spreadable paste. This thickened Marmite is stored in large drums until mixed into batches which we call blends.
Our manufacturing staff are constantly monitoring the quality of the product at this stage.

Quality Control (QC) Testing 1
Samples are now collected and taken to the QC laboratory for Quality Control analysis by the Technical department. We test for Salt content, Moisture content, pH level, viscosity (spreadability) and water activity and Salt to moisture ratio.
There are certain requirements that have to be met at this stage of production.

Blending
We then take the large drums of Marmite and batch these into Blends. These blends are mixed in large mixing vessels, which can hold between 4000 – 5000 kg of Marmite. Each blend is given a special number for tracking during its shelf life of two years.
At this stage we add Riboflavin, B 12, Niacin, Thiamine, Iron and Folic acid (folate) to the mixing vessels. The vitamins are then mixed into the Marmite for a given period of time and then QC tested again before being packed into jars.

Quality Control Testing 2
A sample of each blend is then collected and taken to the Laboratory for further analysis.
Once again we test salt levels, moisture content, pH level, viscosity, water activity and salt to moisture ratio.
We also carry out a taste test on every blend. Blends have to meet certain requirements, known as specifications before it is released to production.

from http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0466922.html

PRODUCTION OF YEAST EXTRACT
This invention discloses a method for producing yeast extract by adding chitosan to yeast to thereby promote the autolysis thereof. Conventional methods for effecting the autolysis of yeast mainly comprising the addition of an organic solvent thereto are problematic in that the organic solvent, not being a naturally occurring product, must be thoroughly removed from the yeast extract when it is used as food. According to this invention, an excellent yeast extract can be obtained by promoting the autolysis of the yeast through the use of chitosan derived from natural products.
....
...
The aforesaid addition amount of chitosan is appropriately controlled depending upon moisture content, viscosity, molecular weight, deacetylation rate, etc. but its addition amount is in the range of 0.01 to 3% based on raw yeast (live yeast). ...
Therefore, the addition amount in the range of 0.05% to 2% is most preferable. The addition within this range provides also the most effective efficiency in cost.

Upon use of chitosan, it is preferred that chitosan be previously dissolved in an acid such as acetic acid, citric acid, tartaric acid, etc.
It is preferred that after adding a chitosan solution to a suspension of live yeast, the mixture be stirred at pH of 2.5 to 7.5 at 30 to 54°C for 10 to 20 hours or be allowed to stand under these conditions to cause autolysis.

The autolysis solution of yeast is centrifuged, and the resulting supernatant is concentrated as it is, or is dried by spray drying, etc., thereby resulting in paste-like yeast extract or powdery yeast extract.

and from: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3961080.html

Process for autolysis of yeast
Abstract:
Yeasts are autolyzed to produce yeast extracts by adding sodium chloride and ethanol to active yeasts so as to make their concentrations 2 to 10 % (W/V) and 1 to 9 % (V/V) of the total volume of the autolytic reaction system respectively and thereafter subjecting said yeasts to autolysis. The thus obtained yeast extracts have a good flavour and palatability.

If boiling the yeast down straight out of the fermenter gives it a raunchy hop flavor, why not do yeast washing so you get a cleaner flavor?

yes, good idea


so far, this is my plan:

* do a yeast wash
* add salt so that it's 10% of the whole concoction
* add ethanol (vodka) so that it's 9% of the whole
* place in pot and put in oven at 40°C for 72 hours to autolysis while stirring every now and then

now the next part they use centrifuge to "obtain the liquid portion. That is, the autolysate liquid was collected."
"The residues were suspended in 50 ml [small scale experiment] of hot water and the washing was collected by means of centrifugation. This procedure was repeated twice"

we dont have centrifuge machines or whatever, so maybe just put in warm (or COLD?) water and give it time so that the solids fall to the bottom and then syphon the liquid?

* then you gotta evaporate all the liquid, either on the stove, sun, fan or microwave.
* add spices.

Is this like Vegemite?? I read that that stuff is made from brewers yeast as well. Frankly, this stuff sounds delicious!

yes, it's like vegemite, and like Bovil (although that's made from beef extract)

Vegemite is an inferior imitation of Marmite, which is an inferior imitation of Vegemite.

Repeat.

Given the concentrated nature of both products, a single batch of brew should product enough to last for a lifetime.

Well I just tasted Vegemite for the first time today....never again!

Ewalk02 said:

Well I just tasted Vegemite for the first time today....never again!

Click to expand...

Marmite used to be marketed that way (Maybe it still is) You either love it or hate it. There is NO in between!

Jeez, and people say English food is bland. I bet you like French's "Mustard" more than Coleman's too!

Tried Marmite while I was in the U.K. a few years ago. I'm way over in the "hate it" camp.

(I do love Coleman's mustard though.)

It is my understanding, from having done some brewery tours in my youth, that marmite is (or at least was) made from the yeast, not the trub. The top fermenting yeast is collected at high krausen then shipped off to be processed. So if you are going to do this at home, definitely wash the yeast, or learn how to handle Ringwood in an open fermentor...

Why not just make a starter from some packets of dry yeast? Either farm it from the krausen or just let it ferment out and collect the yeast.

After you autolise the yeast, why not filter with paper? Instead of centrifuging, just run it through a paper coffee filter. Since you're going to be cooking/pasteurizing the yeast after, I wouldn't worry about sanitization.

B