ft-lb torque for Barley Crusher?

I want to motorize my Barley Crusher and not with a drill. I understand that direct drive gear motor is required but how many in-lb of torque do I really need? Will 30 to 40 in-lbs get it done without bogging down?

take a look here is better said that what i was goignt to do

Motorizing a Malt Mill

Clayton, thanks but that set-up will not work with a barley crusher mill. The shaft and bushings won't stand up to the side torque that type set-up will put on the mill shaft.

I will be installing a direct drive gear motor, I'm just looking for the torque required from the gear motor to keep it from stalling.

well good luck

Mine is 30-40 inch pounds.

Lehr, does it work ok without locking up and having to reverse occasionally?

It's fine.

lehr said:

Mine is 30-40 inch pounds.

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lehr, I see on your next reply it is fine with regards to the 30-40 in/lb tq motor your using.

At what rpm's are your mill rollers turning and what is the diameter of your rollers?
In the near future i'll be ordering a 3 roller Monster Mill with 2" diameter rollers and was in question about the required torque needed to allow a start up with a hopper filled and not empty? I was also thinking about keeping the rpm's at 200 maximum not 300 like many manufactures state to allow for a better crush, less flour as well the extra unwanted wear and tear on the bushing and any added heat. So what if it takes a couple minutes longer to crush 40-50 pounds of grain. (looking at 15 gallons in the cornys on a stout grain amount). This will have a direct gear reduction motor drive with a LoveJoy or a spider coupling, I want the least amount of bushing wear for a long bushing life hence no bushing side loading from a pulley reduction drive system. So far I have a 1/3 hp with a industrial gearbox for a disability chair lift but only 29 rpm's at 256 ft/lbs torque plus a drum safety brake.

A correction is needed here, my fault; my worm drive gearmotor turns at 28.75 RPM's with 565 in/lbs of torque not the 256 I posted above. I will gear it up by 3.111 for 89 RPM's at the mill with 2" rollers 6" long. I will have 181.6 in/lbs of torque on the 6" wide rollers or 30.27 in/bs for every inch of the mills roller length. I believe this will be enough starting and running torque with a full hopper plus only turning 89 RPM's for the minumum of bushing heat, a better crush with less flour plus a coupling for direct drive to the mill without pulley and belt side loading on the bushings. This for a Monster Mill MM3-2.0 their 2" 3 roller 6" long mill. On order i'm waiting for the delivery.

My gearmotor puts out 68 in-lbs torgue which is more than sufficient. I would shoot for a minimum of 50 or 60.

Catt22 said:

My gearmotor puts out 68 in-lbs torgue which is more than sufficient. I would shoot for a minimum of 50 or 60.

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What kind of gear motor do you have?

I have a Bodine. It's a top of the line model and built like a Mercedes Benz. Should last into the next millenium.

BrewBeemer said:

lehr, I see on your next reply it is fine with regards to the 30-40 in/lb tq motor your using.

At what rpm's are your mill rollers turning and what is the diameter of your rollers?
In the near future i'll be ordering a 3 roller Monster Mill with 2" diameter rollers and was in question about the required torque needed to allow a start up with a hopper filled and not empty? I was also thinking about keeping the rpm's at 200 maximum not 300 like many manufactures state to allow for a better crush, less flour as well the extra unwanted wear and tear on the bushing and any added heat. So what if it takes a couple minutes longer to crush 40-50 pounds of grain. (looking at 15 gallons in the cornys on a stout grain amount). This will have a direct gear reduction motor drive with a LoveJoy or a spider coupling, I want the least amount of bushing wear for a long bushing life hence no bushing side loading from a pulley reduction drive system. So far I have a 1/3 hp with a industrial gearbox for a disability chair lift but only 29 rpm's at 256 ft/lbs torque plus a drum safety brake.

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My mill only turns about 100 rpms and it will start with 26 pounds of grain in the hopper. I have since put a lovejoy on my mill.
If I were to buy a new mill I would buy one that has the gears that drive both rollers. I'm not sure of the size of the rollers but it is a grain grinder brand mill.

Pat

Thanks for the info Catt22.

lehr said:

My mill only turns about 100 rpms and it will start with 26 pounds of grain in the hopper. I have since put a lovejoy on my mill.
If I were to buy a new mill I would buy one that has the gears that drive both rollers. I'm not sure of the size of the rollers but it is a grain grinder brand mill.

Pat

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I agree 100% these high end mills should be geared together but really think about it why hasn't any milling manufacture not added counter bored end plates to handle flanged double sealed ball bearings instead of crappy oilite or brass bushings? They are in a dirty dusty location from the start, what were they thinking? I just went nuts with some extra free mad money and ordered a Monster Mill MM3-2.0 mill with 2" rollers by 6" wide. I gave up on two rollers, had two of them that I worn out also replaced the bushings twice on one and now into the "better crush with a 3 roller mill". At least the bushings can be replaced or the end plates milled out for flanged ball bearings if needed, the pisser is to make the adjustable knob into a ball bearing instead of a bushing. Maybe the bushings will out last me? We will see plus I can't wait to get this gearmotor I have and all the parts assembled to this new mill. It has 565 in/lbs torque at 28.75 rpm's, geared up 3.111 to 89 rpm's i'll still have 181.6 in/lbs tq or 30.26 in/lbs per inch of the mills length. Time will tell as i'm on the mend, this for many months ahead doing nothing as my maximum but walking a little. Surgeons orders.

Resurrecting an old thread here, since I'm waiting on my Monster Mill MM3, and want to slap a motor on there as soon as I can. I see lehr is saying that 30-40 in. lbs is enough, but someone else is saying that a minimum of 50 in. lbs. is more desirable.

I'm leaning towards a gearmotor. It's not that I'm against using sheaves, I just don't want to use large ones - I'm extremely tight for space in my garage, so I want to keep the build as small as possible. I've spotted this one at Surplus Direct:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1098

RPMs are right where I want them to be - 177 - and the torque is on the lower end of the "acceptable" level at 40 in. lbs. While I know most folks would use this to direct-drive the mill, would it not also be possible to use this motor with two, say 3" sheaves? Or is it just easier to bite the bullet, use a standard (cheaper) 1750 RPM dryer motor, which I know will provide plenty of torque, and deal with the 12" sheaves?

ubermick said:

Resurrecting an old thread here, since I'm waiting on my Monster Mill MM3, and want to slap a motor on there as soon as I can. I see lehr is saying that 30-40 in. lbs is enough, but someone else is saying that a minimum of 50 in. lbs. is more desirable.

I'm leaning towards a gearmotor. It's not that I'm against using sheaves, I just don't want to use large ones - I'm extremely tight for space in my garage, so I want to keep the build as small as possible. I've spotted this one at Surplus Direct:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1098

RPMs are right where I want them to be - 177 - and the torque is on the lower end of the "acceptable" level at 40 in. lbs. While I know most folks would use this to direct-drive the mill, would it not also be possible to use this motor with two, say 3" sheaves? Or is it just easier to bite the bullet, use a standard (cheaper) 1750 RPM dryer motor, which I know will provide plenty of torque, and deal with the 12" sheaves?

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I emailed Fred about this very motor and here is what he said:

{I'm fairly sure that this gearmotor will do the job with the MM-2. You may have to start it before you load a hopper, but I think it should work.}

Sounds to me like it might be a little wussy for the MM3. I'm not getting it. If you're looking to go cheap, then I have yet to find one that fits the bill better than this though. I just don't want to screw around with starting before filling and crap. I bought a BEEFY mill and I'm going to put a BEEFY motor on it even if it's much more $.


Here's some more horse mouth talk (this is re: the MM3):

{There are SO many variables for drive systems, that I couldn't possibly spec out them all. I do not think that 25 in/lb is enough, you need to be looking at something over 50in/lb. I recommend a 1/3 -1/2 HP 1725 rpm AC motor with a 10:1 reduction using pulleys, or its equivalent. CAP start is necessary if you want to start the mill when the hopper is full, but generally I recommend starting it before filling the hopper, and leaving out CAP start. We recommend 250 or less rpms. 300 will work.}

And to corroborate your not wanting to use pulleys (as I won't) re: my question about the necessity for the 1/2" drive shaft:

{the advantage of the larger shaft is both strength (mostly against bending) , and size that matches available bores in the applicable pulley. With a direct drive, and a lovejoy coupling, I don't see a big advantage. Shear is no problem for the smaller shaft, its bending that it doesn't hold up to as well.}


I for one am going to go with a 1725 rpm 1/2 HP motor with a 10:1 gearbox (aka right angle gear reducer). I'm going with the gearbox because there are more mounting options (like vertical).

ubermick said:

Resurrecting an old thread here, since I'm waiting on my Monster Mill MM3, and want to slap a motor on there as soon as I can. I see lehr is saying that 30-40 in. lbs is enough, but someone else is saying that a minimum of 50 in. lbs. is more desirable.

I'm leaning towards a gearmotor. It's not that I'm against using sheaves, I just don't want to use large ones - I'm extremely tight for space in my garage, so I want to keep the build as small as possible. I've spotted this one at Surplus Direct:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1098

RPMs are right where I want them to be - 177 - and the torque is on the lower end of the "acceptable" level at 40 in. lbs. While I know most folks would use this to direct-drive the mill, would it not also be possible to use this motor with two, say 3" sheaves? Or is it just easier to bite the bullet, use a standard (cheaper) 1750 RPM dryer motor, which I know will provide plenty of torque, and deal with the 12" sheaves?

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Makes me wonder if something like this would work to connect them? Talk about easy to hook up and easy to unhook and clean the mill.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/keyless-chuck-p-69820.html


.

Como?

A lovejoy coupler is about the same price and corrects for slight misalignment, which you'd need, so I though.

Aside from that motor, I have yet to find a motor that's powerful enough and has the same shaft size as my mill (3/8").

SankePankey said:

Como?

A lovejoy coupler is about the same price and corrects for slight misalignment, which you'd need, so I though.

Aside from that motor, I have yet to find a motor that's powerful enough and has the same shaft size as my mill (3/8").

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The Lovejoy jaw couplings are available with different bores for the hubs. IOW, the bore diameter on the driven hub can be different from the bore on the drive hub. The motor shaft need not be the same size as the mill shaft. One could also be a metric size and the other not. You can mix and match nearly any combination as the hubs and spiders are sold individually. You do want the hubs to be the of the same series with the same outside diameter so that they fit the same spider.

Yes. Thank you. That is what I meant. He was referring to using something with both 1/2" on either side. Most of the beefy motors are 5/8" plus necessitating a lovejoy, especially so since I opted against the 1/2" upgrade.

SankePankey said:

Most of the beefy motors are 5/8" plus necessitating a lovejoy, especially so since I opted against the 1/2" upgrade.

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The Bodine gearmotors are manufactured with many different shaft sizes and some are metric versions. The Bodine I have uses a 3/4" shaft and my mill shaft is only 3/8" dia. The Lovejoy Jaw coupler made it a snap to hook up. I've been using the motorized mill for nearly four years with zero problems.