Belgian Tripel Question

I'm just getting started brewing. Been doing it for about 4 1/2 months, and I'm on my ninth batch. It's a Belgian Tripel.

Here's the recipe:
3.3 lb. can of BrewFerm hopped Grand Cru liquid malt extract
2 x 3 lb. bags of LD Carlson Briess DME (Pilsen Light)
8 oz. bag of Belgian Light Candy Sugar
Wyeast Trappist yeast slap pack (3787)
1 oz. Spalt hops (2% AA) added with 10 minutes left in boil for aroma only
5 gallons Publix Spring water

I brewed it a week ago tonight, and it's been an active primary! I'm a little bit flummoxed, though. I noticed that for the first couple of days, the tube into my blow off was bubbling almost constantly. Then, over the next day or two, it slowed down appreciably. So, yesterday morning I took a timer to the bubbles to get a gauge on how it was doing. It was averaging about 22 seconds between bubbles. So last night I take measurements again to see what kind of progress it was making. Um, the lag time was DOWN to 20 seconds between bubbles. This morning, 18 seconds between bubbles. Tonight, 17 seconds.

What's going on? I've never had a batch SPEED UP after 5 days of active fermentation, especially when it had already begun SLOWING.

Is this normal? I haven't touched anything yet, so please don't say RDWHAHB. I'm doing that as we speak .

Anyway, I just wanted to make sure this was in the normal realm of experience. Oh, yeah, if it matters, the OG was 1.085, adjusted for a temp of 80 degrees, which just so happens to also be my pitching temperature.

Any comments?

Thanks!

You need to take another gravity reading in order to find out what is going on. The airlock activity doesn't tell you much.

3787 is a massive attenuator. Sit back and let it ride. Give it time. Don't worry and over manage your beer. Let it go. Belgian styles really benefit from time and patience. Quit checking and timing so much and let that bad ass 3787 do it's thing. You'll be ok. Forget this brew in the primary for a few weeks, and whin it clarifies, give yet another week. Then rack it. Forget it for another few weeks. Sometimes it's best just to forget those brews, and let them do thier thing!! Don't micro-manage the brew. Have fun!

I just bottled a Williams BelgianTrippel a few weeks ago.. It started at 1.085. I don't remember off hand what the FG was, but it worked out to be around 10.4% ABV. It sat in Primary for 3 weeks. Racked to secondary for 4 weeks. Its been bottled for 3 weeks and still needs more bottle time. Still tastes a bit like rocket fuel, but the taste is starting to blend better. The aroma is great.. wish I could get an air freshener that smell.

My latest tripel was in the primary -- pitched 3 liters of 1214 starter -- for 22 days, racked to seconday at FG 1.016 and it has been sitting there for 2.5 weeks it'll stay there for another month. Might open the first bottle on my Birthday in late October.

Is that the only hop addition? I'm not a big hop addict but that seems really light.

I've just started brewing Belgians (within the last 2 months). I believe the most important part of brewing these high gravity ales is to make a huge starter (1-2 or more quart). I scooped up a particularly pungent trub and made a couple crazy active starters that compelled a couple more batches and I was on my way (into Belgians). Perfect for my OCD.

I also found that a fermenter with a lot of head-space is better than a blow-off set-up. My two Cooper's fermenters are perfect for this. So now I have six, five (or so) gallon batches of Belgians (2 'Duvel' clones, 2 trippels, 2 'wait-and-see' in various stages of ferment and conditioning) that I won't be able to enjoy until Christmas. These are going to be great gifts in their corked bottles.

Let's see, for my next brew........................

ZooBrew,

Two things:

1. No, that's not the only hops. The liquid malt extract was hopped, too.
2. I DO have a lot of head space (using a 7.8 gallon bucket for a 5 gallon batch), but I STILL need the blow off setup!

Thanks for all of the responses. I'm not trying to micro-manage, but I also don't want to take an official gravity reading when it's still too early, so I'm checking the airlock activity. On the other hand, I don't want to leave the beer on its trub too long, causing off flavors. So, I'm just trying to get the timing right, which is why I'm paying attention. Notice, though, that I've not actually DONE anything yet. As far as the beer knows, I haven't even checked it .

Ah, I overlooked the hopped LME in your post. Did the suds reach the blow-off tube?

Yeah, they did. I actually had to remove the blow-off 2 or 3 times and clean it out to make sure it didn't get clogged.

I finally racked this over to secondary 2 nights ago, and the gravity was 1.022, so it apparently has a little more fermenting to go. I still see a small amount of airlock activity. My LHBS owner told me that I'll probably let this beer sit so long in secondary that I will need to add another slap pack of 3787 a few days before bottling.

Does anyone else have a history with brewing this beer? Do you normally add the new yeast 2 days before bottling? 3? Does it matter much? Could it be a week?

Also, how long should I let it go in secondary? 2 weeks? A month? 2?

Thanks!

I usually pitch additional yeast for beers that are above 8% or that i bulk age for a long time. I just like the extra insurance of knowing that there is some fresh yeast in there to help the bottles carb up.

I wouldn't waste $7 on another pack of the 3787. You already got the esters you wanted during fermentation. i usually just pitch a pack of rehydrated S-05 or T-58 right into the bottling bucket. You probably don't need a whole pack, but for $2 its not a big deal for me.

I would secondary it for as long as you can. I did a belgian last october that was in primary for 6 weeks and then secondary for 2 months, then i bottled it and let it sit until about a month ago when i started drinking them. I'm still trying to stay out of them though (which will be hard cause they are pretty spectacular now). They will only get better with age.

MBM30075 said:

I finally racked this over to secondary 2 nights ago, and the gravity was 1.022, so it apparently has a little more fermenting to go. I still see a small amount of airlock activity.

Click to expand...

Leave it. It'll continue to work for some time more. If you kept it in a relatively warm place, you should see more attenuation.

My LHBS owner told me that I'll probably let this beer sit so long in secondary that I will need to add another slap pack of 3787 a few days before bottling.

Click to expand...

You can re-seed the beer if you like. Think of it using Stan Heironymous's metaphor from Brew Like a Monk: the original yeast have been through a war. They're tired, soaked in alcohol. Do you really expect them to perk up and, in the presence of no oxygen and only a tiny amount of food, revive and carbonate your beer? Thing is, they will; it'll just take longer than if you re-seed with fresh yeast.

You don't need another packet of 3787. You can use a cheap packet of dry yeast like Nottingham or S-05. The bottle-conditioning yeast has such a tiny impact on the beer that it doesn't matter in the slightest, practically speaking.

Also, how long should I let it go in secondary? 2 weeks? A month? 2?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Seriously, as long as is necessary for the beer to taste good and for full attenuation to occur. That could be months.

Good luck!

Bob

OK, I wouldn't mind letting it go for 2 months (actually, that would be a little long. I want to give a buddy of mine a 6 pack and he's getting married August 1st), but you said,
"... as long as is necessary for the beer to taste good and for full attenuation to occur."

How do I know how long that is? Gravity readings? What gravity is ideal for me? 1.018? 1.019? 1.017?

Do I taste it at the readings? How do I know (empirically, please) when it's ready to bottle?

Thanks.

I'm not sure exactly what you'd be looking at time wise. When you get consistent gravity reading for 3 days in primary i would rack it to secondary and leave it there for as long as you can handle. It will probably drop another 2 or 3 points in secondary. I would think it would be fully attenuated after 2-3 weeks. But probably won't start being anywhere near drinkable for 2-3 months after that. When it tastes drinkable enough though is up to you. I usually wait at least 6 months minimum when i do belgians before i start drinking them.

I may do that in the future, but this beer's gotta be bottled and ready by August 1st (see: wedding present above). Or at least bottled. Maybe I can tell him to wait a month to drink it or something.

Anyway, I've already got it in secondary (I don't take consecutive day gravity readings because of my fear of contamination) and it's still bubbling, but barely. I figure I'll let it sit for 4 to 6 weeks in there and then bottle it. Even if it isn't the best it can possibly be, I've got to figure it should still be good, right?

MBM30075 said:

OK, I wouldn't mind letting it go for 2 months (actually, that would be a little long. I want to give a buddy of mine a 6 pack and he's getting married August 1st), but you said,
"... as long as is necessary for the beer to taste good and for full attenuation to occur."

How do I know how long that is? Gravity readings? What gravity is ideal for me? 1.018? 1.019? 1.017?

Do I taste it at the readings? How do I know (empirically, please) when it's ready to bottle?

Click to expand...

Good questions! Let's take 'em one by one.

How do you know how long until it tastes good? By tasting, oddly.

You get tasting samples by taking gravity samples; that way you get several data with no waste.

The ideal FG is dependent on the characteristics of your ferment and your yeast. 3787 can be pretty voracious, but it's hard to predict an FG - even with the attenuation range of 74-78% - especially when most of the fermentables come from extract. My copy of ProMash tells me you can expect an OG of ~1.081. That means your 3787 (more on that later) should, if all goes well, get you to 1.018 to 1.021. But those are just guidelines; an all-malt Tripel will finish higher than a Tripel with high proportions of simple sugar in the grist.

You know it's ready to bottle when you get three like hydrometer readings in a row. If you take readings on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and they're all the same, your ferment is complete and you can package with a clear conscience.

Clear as mud?

Bob

I currently have this carboy in its third container (primary, secondary carboy, third carboy) because I saw a large sediment layer in secondary that I wanted to get it off of. I was a little careless racking from primary. A week into "tertiary" and I'm seeing another fairly decent layer of sediment at the bottom. Should I rack off again? Is there such as thing as too much clearing?

Also, Bob, you seem to be giving me different information than a lot of other people here. It seems like you're saying that the right time to bottle is any time after fermentation is complete, while I've seen a lot of others here seem to say that aging the batch in a carboy (I've heard it called 'bulk' aging) will add flavor and character. Am I missing something? Can you clear up my confusion?

Thanks!

I wouldn't move it. The more you move it, the more bad things that can happen, oxidize, infections, etc. You've already gone from primary to secondary, then you will need to go to bottling bucket, then bottles. Personally, I'd remove a step. Also, beer will clear over time regardless of how many times you transfer it.

Also, do a couple searches here to verify and read some people's experiences, but people have left beer in primary for 2 months or more without off flavors. I've gone at least 6 weeks. I can't even remember the last time I had a beer in primary for less than 4 weeks.

MBM30075 said:

Also, Bob, you seem to be giving me different information than a lot of other people here. It seems like you're saying that the right time to bottle is any time after fermentation is complete, while I've seen a lot of others here seem to say that aging the batch in a carboy (I've heard it called 'bulk' aging) will add flavor and character. Am I missing something? Can you clear up my confusion?

Click to expand...

Depends on the style and circumstances, really. As a general rule, you can bottle anytime after the ferment has stabilized. Some yeasts, however, can continue to work - very slowly - for weeks. Saison yeast, for example, can appear to quit with a high FG, but it'll continue to work for weeks and weeks.

Bulk aging vs. bottle aging is an area of controversy. I prefer to get the beer into the bottle for extended aging, because once the beer ceases emitting carbon dioxide air is an enemy. It's been my experience that aging in bulk makes the detectable effects of aging - flavor changes - happen more quickly; the changes which occur through aging take less time in a carboy than in the bottle. But it's up to you to decide.

Cheers,

Bob