To secondary or not to secondary

Honesty having troll coming up with a reason to secondary other then I always have. I an going to fry hop this batch for about 5 ish days and am considering just dumping into the primary and then kegging at the end of that time.

Is there a reason for or against the secondary ?

Brian

fishslayer said:

Honesty having troll coming up with a reason to secondary other then I always have. I an going to fry hop this batch for about 5 ish days and am considering just dumping into the primary and then kegging at the end of that time.

Is there a reason for or against the secondary ?

Brian

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If you can't think of a good reason why you need to secondary, then don't.

Brew on

Give it a try. I have not used a secondary for over 3 1/2 years after reading that so many skip the secondary. I get good comments on my beers from my friends and I like them and that is all that really matters.

Unlike many I predominantly use secondary & always when dry hopping. Of course, I'm old & more patient!

not to secondary

What are the pros and cons of using a secondary?

If you are only fermenting for a short period (2-3 weeks), there really isn't much need to go to a secondary. you just can get some off flavor a by leaving your beer sitting with all that trub too long. If I can do a quick 2 week fermentation then I usually just go with a single stage, otherwise I will rack to a secondary. I prefer to rack to a secondary when dry hopping as well, but I can't provide a great benefit except I think I'm getting better aroma distribution throughout the beer.

baleeted.

fishslayer said:

Honesty having troll coming up with a reason to secondary other then I always have. I an going to fry hop this batch for about 5 ish days and am considering just dumping into the primary and then kegging at the end of that time.

Is there a reason for or against the secondary ?

Brian

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post of the year, in my opinion.

proud to share a first name with ya, buddy boy.

i wanna hang out with you and gary_oak

Brewing my third batch now...
Was taught from the start to mix and let it sit for a good week; till airlock stops letting off gases.
I then give it a shot of sugar and bottle it. (approx 8 grams of sugar per 355 ml bottle) keep in a warm temperature for two weeks; chill and enjoy.
What could I be doing better??
It tastes great and my friends like it too. Its a lager, by the way

I dont secondary. For most beers, I ferment for about 10-14 days, coldcrash the fermenter for about a week, then keg. I would only secondary if it were something I was planning to bulk age and wanted to get it off the trub.

I'm no expert on dry hopping since I don't care for very hoppy beers but I guess I might consider doing that in a secondary vessel or towards the end of fermentation if adding to the primary. I wouldn't add the hops at the start, to avoid introducing bacteria before the yeast have taken hold and are in control.

David

Secondary or the better/ more accurate term clearing/ brite vessel is not as important as good technique. It has its place . The yeast will clean up the hops and help with preventing oxidation by not transferring. That is unless you can transfer without oxidizing or infecting your beer. That said It has been found that the yeast can increase Gerinoil in the brew. So the debate goes on. I do both. I also dry hop in the keg. I am not a do it one way that's it brewer. It's all in how I feel. If your a newb no secondary.

GCPHomebrew said:

Secondary or the better/ more accurate term clearing/ brite vessel is not as important as good technique. It has its place . The yeast will clean up the hops and help with preventing oxidation by not transferring. That is unless you can transfer without oxidizing or infecting your beer. That said It has been found that the yeast can increase Gerinoil in the brew. So the debate goes on. I do both. I also dry hop in the keg. I am not a do it one way that's it brewer. It's all in how I feel. If your a newb no secondary.

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I going to have to rethink my no secondary rule. I certainly don't want increased levels of Gerinoil in my beer.

Brew on

The only reason I secondary is when using fruit puree.

I ferment in buckets so have enough head space so that after 7-10 days I can pour in the puree into the primary. I give it several weeks, then rack to a better bottle. You will inevitably get some sludge. I cold crash and rack to a bottling bucket. This way I get little sludge in my bottles.

Has its place. When I want to stock up on yeast, I secondary to wash yeast if I plan to dry hopping. The amber I'm fermenting, I just dryhopped, and I racked a few days ago to get a nice stock of 1056. The Marzen I was sampling earlier this evening was racked directly to a keg after primary fermentation for lagering. If I was brewing something for a competition, I'd probably stick with just a primary. No one way to do things, just depends on your goals I guess.

I never secondary, don't see the point.

I also did an xBmt on this topic and found tasters were unable to reliably distinguish between the same dry hopped beer fermented in primary-only vs. secondary:

http://brulosophy.com/2014/08/12/primary-only-vs-transfer-to-secondary-exbeeriment-results/

Brulosopher said:

I never secondary, don't see the point.

I also did an xBmt on this topic and found tasters were unable to reliably distinguish between the same dry hopped beer fermented in primary-only vs. secondary:

http://brulosophy.com/2014/08/12/primary-only-vs-transfer-to-secondary-exbeeriment-results/

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I see 2 uses:

1 - long term aging (> 3 months, more like 6-12 months). I don't keg, and don't have a beer refrigerator, just my basement. I have beers that aged on top of the yeast cake for 6-12 months that I did not care for.


2 - if the beer has a lot of loose sediment like puree, and maybe lots of dry hops.

Especially for fruit puree, I transfer to a secondary, let it sit a while to settle, than rack to the bottling bucket. This greatly cuts down on the "zone of slushy sediment" at the bottom of the fermentor. Also - you can add the fruit puree directly to the primary, you don't have to rack it to a secondary, then rack again.

I just started using a secondary, but mainly to free up the primary, and to cold crash. Also cause my primary usually ends up with a ton of trub.

hutteriteBrewing said:

Brewing my third batch now...
Was taught from the start to mix and let it sit for a good week; till airlock stops letting off gases.
I then give it a shot of sugar and bottle it. (approx 8 grams of sugar per 355 ml bottle) keep in a warm temperature for two weeks; chill and enjoy.
What could I be doing better??
It tastes great and my friends like it too. Its a lager, by the way

Click to expand...

But, if you are just waiting for the airlock to stop bubbling you are courting bottle bombs. You have to make sure that fermentation is finished before bottling.

Use a calculator to determine how much priming sugar to use. IMO it is easier to make a priming solution and add it to the bottling bucket then fill the bottles.

Two weeks MAY be long enough for bottle conditioning. It may have carbonation but I feel ALL of my beers have tasted better after conditioning for 3 weeks or longer.

If you made a beer and bottled it after a week it is not a lager. It might have been called a lager by the kit maker (it is probably a "lager like" ale). A real lager takes a complicated series of temperature changes during the fermentation stage.

jaydlaw said:

I just started using a secondary, but mainly to free up the primary, and to cold crash. Also cause my primary usually ends up with a ton of trub.

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I would just buy another primary fermentor if practical.
In general, its ok to let the beer sit on the trub for a few weeks, and you can cold crash in the primary.

ArcLight said:

I would just buy another primary fermentor if practical.
In general, its ok to let the beer sit on the trub for a few weeks, and you can cold crash in the primary.

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I thought about that, but I caught a deal on the secondary from someone getting out of the hobby. Besides I usually end up with alot of trub in the primary. The secondary helps leave most of that behind.

jaydlaw said:

I thought about that, but I caught a deal on the secondary from someone getting out of the hobby. Besides I usually end up with alot of trub in the primary. The secondary helps leave most of that behind.

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I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag to contain my hops, so not much trub gets transferred to the primary. I even transfer most of the wort from the BK to the primary.

I tend to use one for aging, maybe lagering (have only done a few half-cocked attempts without dedicated fridge), and mostly to free up a primary. I'm about to rack a saison to finish clearing/conditioning in secondary so I can harvest the yeast cake and use it to get my next beer going. Otherwise, I'd have gone primary only.

kh54s10 said:

I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag to contain my hops, so not much trub gets transferred to the primary. I even transfer most of the wort from the BK to the primary.

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My last batch, I rinsed out, sanitized and reused my 5 gal paint strainer bag from the biab. I still get alot of trub. I did squeeze the liquid from the bag.

I secondary my sour beers so they can bulk age for several months before I move them to a keg for extended aging.

I haven't secondary'd any other beers since my 3rd or 4th batch way back in the day. If I am going to dry hop, I usually hold ferment temp for 2+ weeks, cold crash for a few days, let warm up to ambient, dry hop for around 5 days, cold crash again for a few days, and keg. Typically 4 weeks from brew day to keg for a dry-hopped beer.

Unless it needs to age for a long time I never move my beer to a secondary. I dry hop in the primary, and tend to do some when the yeast are still a little active (http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/01/enjoy-by-122514-and-some-dry-hopping.html).

Amazing troll thread. Good work all you heroes

I find that using a secondary is actually great for getting me to let my beers have a little time. It's like by transferring a beer to a secondary I get myself in the mindset that it needs a little more time, so that if I actually transfer it's usually 4-5 weeks at least from brewing to (usually) kegging. Otherwise I may keg after 2-3 weeks, which in many cases is fine but for quite a few beers, that next couple weeks helps.

I also find that transferring and leaving behind all that crud makes for clearer beer in the end. Yes, in theory just leaving it in primary should let the beer clear like transferring to secondary but I believe my beers are often better when I make the transfer. Still, I'd say probably only 1/3 of my beers go to a secondary.

I think this subject has been beat to death on multiple counts! It just comes down to personal preference, you can make good beer ether way.

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wardens355 said:

I secondary my sour beers so they can bulk age for several months before I move them to a keg for extended aging.

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I leave my sours in primary for 12+ months. Brett eats autolyzed Sacch.

Brulosopher said:

I leave my sours in primary for 12+ months. Brett eats autolyzed Sacch.

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Yeah, another thing that seems like personal preference. Either way is probably fine. Kegs ultimately take less space and I don't have a lot of extra room in my place, so storing in kegs for bulk aging is a big space saver (plus I can fill individual bottles right from the keg and continue bulk aging).

I have been making Brett + bugs (no Sacch) lately, and when I rack 5-gallons to secondary (after 4-8 weeks in), I brew another 10-gallons and split the cake into two new 5-gallon batches. Reasons conjured up for racking to secondary include: (1) supposedly lends to a 'cleaner' souring (Tonsmiere), likely due to reduced autolysis, (2) filling a secondary to the neck leaves very little surface area for oxygen transfer, and (3) cake is relatively young and more viable for repitching with.

Every time I see these secondary threads come up this pops into my head:

If your cleanliness and sanitization (I think that's a word) are on point and you have the time there is no reason NOT to.

Derek1985 said:

If your cleanliness and sanitization (I think that's a word) are on point and you have the time there is no reason NOT to.

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Extra oxygenation from two transfers rather than one (depending on how you transfer).

Iseneye said:

Extra oxygenation from two transfers rather than one (depending on how you transfer).

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Correction:

If your cleanliness and sanitization (confirmed to be a word!) are on point, you have the time and you are careful when transferring there is not reason NOT to do it.

As always though, it is a preference and not necessary unless (some would say it is never necessary) you are planning to age your BDSA, Imp. Stout or Barleywine style beers for extended periods.