Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

I keep seeing people talk about pasteurizing this. How are they doing that, and is it required?

mpride1911 said:

I keep seeing people talk about pasteurizing this. How are they doing that, and is it required?

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Go to the cider part of the forum and read the bottle pasteurization sticky. As far as if it is necessary, I would say no, unless you think it is going to be around a long time. Mine is stored at room temperature, non pasteurized, and while it has definitely developed over the last couple weeks it actually seems pretty stable.

zeapo said:

The 1 thats with the larger yeast balls in it has bright yellow goo with green fuzzy mold spots on it, but only on the top of the rice not on the sides. Is it just me or would you say that this batch is a loss? Other than the green spots on top, everything else seems to be going normal. In fact it seems to be going faster...
Should I let it ride?

This is my only experience with anything other than all grain brewing.

Oh and its my first post!

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Congrats on first post! My suggestion about the yellow goo/mold would be just remove the upper most part. I had dark green mold appear in spots on one batch and I just scooped them away. They did not redevelop.

mpride1911 said:

I keep seeing people talk about pasteurizing this. How are they doing that, and is it required?

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The reason pasteurization is recommended is because this wine is prone to develop lactobacillus. It takes so little time to pasteurize and you can do it by bottle, by jar or even in bulk by filling nonreactive pan on stovetop(cover with lid).

The jar on the left started last Saturday and has the fuzzy mold. The one on the right was started last Sunday and never exhibited any mold. Clearly there's a difference in the fluid.

First batch I did at ratio of 2 to 1 on water and I think I pitched the yeast balls before the rice was cool enough and it developed a little black mold but was drinkable and tasty actually and is gone !
The black mold developed at 14 days but never grew beyond the initial amount and I harvested at 21 days
I have started two new batches a week apart at a 1 to 1 ratio and have passed the 14 day mark on the first with no black mold
My advice for what it's worth is reduce the water and let it cool to just warm to touch

I also strained thru double colander with cheese cloth doubled over and it took forever to drain and ended up having to squeeze most of the liquid out so will try single layer of cheese cloth next time

Enjoy!

Bottled after 3 weeks. It was pretty much three weeks to the day that the rice separated out of the liquid like it knew it was ready. The volume was small enough that I could do a double-pan pasteurization (float a metal bowl in a pot of boiling water and wait for the wine to hit the right temp). I pasteurized at 130F but I figure the point is to kill the yeast and not boil any nasties to death.



4 cups rice ended up with a full 1L bottle and a full small mason jar. Prepping a double batch today since it's so cheap and easy to make.

Arrheinous said:

Bottled after 3 weeks. It was pretty much three weeks to the day that the rice separated out of the liquid like it knew it was ready. The volume was small enough that I could do a double-pan pasteurization (float a metal bowl in a pot of boiling water and wait for the wine to hit the right temp). I pasteurized at 130F but I figure the point is to kill the yeast and not boil any nasties to death.

4 cups rice ended up with a full 1L bottle and a full small mason jar. Prepping a double batch today since it's so cheap and easy to make.

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Looks great! I store mine in the same bottle, it definately attracts attention when I have friends over and they notice it on my bar.

Well, bad news for me.

I just dumped my 3 large jars, the 1 batch that I had. To refresh, I had made a batch using both sweet and Jasmine rice. One jar of each rice, and another was a combo of the two. I kept them on the kitchen counter, and mixed 1 yeast ball per cup of rice used.

Today was day 21. I opened them all to find a very strong acetone smell. The jasmine only jar was the worst. It had a SUPER strong acetone smell, nothing else. I strained the liquid from the rice, and smelled it. Still all acetone. So bad it was hard to dump down the sink and filled the room with the smell. Really bad. Dumped it.

The sweet/ jasmine jar was pretty strong with the acetone smell, but it had a very slight rice/ fruit undertone. Strained it from the rice, and tasted a very very small amount. Terrible. Dumped it.

The sweet only jar was actually not that strong on the acetone smell. It was more of an undertone. It had a slightly I guess bready/ yeasty smell to it as well, with acetone coming through last. This is after my nose being assaulted by the horrible smells from the other two jars. I tasted a very very small sip. Taste had a slight burn, with almost a chemical taste. Didnt want to taste any more if it. Dumped it.

Well, I am not sure at all how the acetone smell/ flavor got into there. Not sure if its the yeast balls I used, or if its the procedure of making it (everything sanitized with starsan), or the way I kept it. It was on my kitchen counter, close to a window, and the lids were very loose on the jars. I decided to let it go the full 21 dyas to see if maybe the acetone smell was a "stage" of the process. Guess not.

Good news is I already have more rice soaking right now to give it another go. I am using only Jasmine this time, as thats what the original recipe had called for. Any suggestions or tips or thoughts, please share.

Tips I learned for the next batch: tighter lids, maybe better sanitation, dont keep in direct light, let it sit the 3 weeks, be patient, and dont mess with it!

Yeah, definitely tighten up those lids and keep it in the dark

My next experiment will be an interesting one. I'm running 5 parallel batches. Each one is being handled the same, but is made with a different grain. They are currently soaking for an hour. Then I will rinse and cook them in my rice cooker with a 1:1 ratio of dry grain to water in the cooker. Each jar has 1.5 cups of dry grain in it. I will let them cool overnight, and mix the cooked rice with 1 crushed rice yeast ball each.

I expect the wheat berries and brown rice to be complete disasters.

choosybeggar said:

Been lurking in this thread. Tried it with panda balls and jasmine rice. Harvested today. Got about 2.5 L of lovely rice wine. Now pasteurized and cooling. Next the big test; will my wife like it?

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No wonder they have such trouble reproducing!


I've finally finished reading through this thread (started Friday evening). I picked up all the ingredients except the yeast balls (ordered them). I'm also going to look for Thai jasmine rice . . . when I bought supplies I'd only gotten as far as a recommendation for Sushi rice. It sounds like that's a plan to can.

I'll put it in the fermentation chamber between brews. If this works out, I'll get some Goya nectar or berry juice to mix in and pasteurize.

Ah! I forgot, I've got sushi rice too. I'll start some of that going.

EDIT: Correction, Japanese sweet rice not sushi rice.

Served my new rice wine to guests last night. Nobody stopped at one glass :rockin:

So figured I should report back. I used half sushi rice and half "wild purple sweet rice." The purple rice gave it this really nice color, but unfortunately the rice itself didn't really break down. Had quite a bit of pulp leftover to strain at the end. Pretty good stuff with just a hint of sourness to it.

I got bored a week ago so I went digging through my pantry and found a couple of sweet potatoes. So I cooked them up, peeled em, and then stuffed it in a jar with some of the yeast balls. Interesting stuff. Had a good inch of white mold growing on top. WAY more than I ever saw with the rice. Smell was a bit sour for a while, but has mostly faded. They're starting to break down and the jar is about half full with liquid at the bottom. Another week or two and I'll sample it. I'll put up some pics if I can find my camera later tonight.

00radio said:

So figured I should report back. I used half sushi rice and half "wild purple sweet rice." The purple rice gave it this really nice color, but unfortunately the rice itself didn't really break down. Had quite a bit of pulp leftover to strain at the end. Pretty good stuff with just a hint of sourness to it.

I got bored a week ago so I went digging through my pantry and found a couple of sweet potatoes. So I cooked them up, peeled em, and then stuffed it in a jar with some of the yeast balls. Interesting stuff. Had a good inch of white mold growing on top. WAY more than I ever saw with the rice. Smell was a bit sour for a while, but has mostly faded. They're starting to break down and the jar is about half full with liquid at the bottom. Another week or two and I'll sample it. I'll put up some pics if I can find my camera later tonight.

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Funny, I was thinking of doing just what you did with the sweet potatoes. I may put a small layer of rice wine over the top to discourage fungus. This is probably how shōchu is made, only it is distilled.

00radio said:

I got bored a week ago so I went digging through my pantry and found a couple of sweet potatoes. So I cooked them up, peeled em, and then stuffed it in a jar with some of the yeast balls. Interesting stuff. Had a good inch of white mold growing on top. WAY more than I ever saw with the rice. Smell was a bit sour for a while, but has mostly faded. They're starting to break down and the jar is about half full with liquid at the bottom. Another week or two and I'll sample it. I'll put up some pics if I can find my camera later tonight.

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Sounds like an interesting experiment. I'm interested in how this turns out.

This is probably how shōchu is made, only it is distilled.

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I'm not familiar with shochu, but it'd be interesting to take the results of a sweet potato/yeast ball ferment and freeze concentrate it like you would applejack to see if the end product was similar.

BattleGoat said:

I'm not familiar with shochu, but it'd be interesting to take the results of a sweet potato/yeast ball ferment and freeze concentrate it like you would applejack to see if the end product was similar.

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It's a lot like vodka but more aromatic and not as sweet at ~30%. They make it traditionally from barley, sweet potatoes or rice.

I started my second batch yesterday and tasted a little of the early fermentation today. Just a tinge of sourness and sweetness to the rice. Which makes me wonder, what about this method of brewing rice wine leads to the sourness, a flavor I rather like but never detect in commercial sake?

choosybeggar said:

I started my second batch yesterday and tasted a little of the early fermentation today. Just a tinge of sourness and sweetness to the rice. Which makes me wonder, what about this method of brewing rice wine leads to the sourness, a flavor I rather like but never detect in commercial sake?

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Commercial sake is made differently than this. This is really "rice wine". Arapolis did a thread on SAKE sake that I think I linked on post #1. "Sake" is just the easiest way to describe this to someone.

camface said:

How do you do this? Is it the same method in making your own kome koji?

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Yep, same method. Sorry that took so long, my phone's not getting "poked" right when I get a reply or something

As an aside, as others have noticed downstream, works great for sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, and just about anything else. The aspergillus will let you ferment just about anything with its happy enzyme arsenal.

Apparently, a Japanese biochem PhD. I met once told me that in the old days they used to also use the same black mold we freak out about (another aspergillus) for distilling, since many groups, including the USDA, claim that aflatoxins don't distill over.

Again, sorry for the slow reply >.<

Admittedly this thread has always bothered me, because sake most commonly known as rice wine in the us is made differently. I usually call this stuff Korean rice wine to differentiate it from Japanese rice wine.

Sake is made with koji (the enyme producing mold and yeast.) This process also has more specific procedures and steps involving koji additions. Most sake we see is more scientific perfectobrew.

Korean and chinese fermented rice wine uses the rice ball method. This is usually called lao zao, or jiuqu. Or cheongju or makkgeoli. The riceball is then called nuruk. Its more... throw it all together than sake/rice wine is.

The flavors are incredibly different. Thankfully, people know sake as sake these days. But I'd say its kinda like sake for people who don't know.

choosybeggar said:

I started my second batch yesterday and tasted a little of the early fermentation today. Just a tinge of sourness and sweetness to the rice. Which makes me wonder, what about this method of brewing rice wine leads to the sourness, a flavor I rather like but never detect in commercial sake?

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Well, there are many varieties of sour sake in Japan that have concominant lactobacillus infections. Basically, the master sake brewers create a balance, or use a sour mash method (as with moto, if I remember correctly). I've had some more sour "amazake" style wines, and some makkgeoli (korean "fresh" unpasteurized rice wine) had the same tartness. If the lactobacillus is already present in the rice ball, it'll be harder to prevent the sourness. Lactobacillus is inhibited by the presence of lactic acid, so some use that method. Other's claim you can use lysozyme. All of these things are hard to regulate still sometimes, especially in the case of sake if you are growing your own koji (rice ball equivalent-ish).

Alternatively, Chinese rice wine usually begins, in oversimplified and overgeneralized terms (sorry, my chinese friends would kill me if I didn't say that), with the rice cake you see, which is just a mixture of all the fungus and bacterial cultures from a previously inoculated batch of rice that is allowed to grow. This, in turn, is used like a starter to help achieve some form of balance, is what they told me when I asked there. Unfortunately, quality control isn't always so great from batch to batch sometimes, so you get decent variation in quality of product even within the same brand of rice balls (at least in my experience with side by side mason jars).
The Vietnamese do the same general process, but I've had better luck with some of their brands that are made out in California. They use these to not only make wine, but also several desserts with the black sticky rice (which some noted earlier did not fall apart). They treat it like a semi sweet rice pudding-esque dish. It's a real pain to get it right, and my friends keep claiming mine comes out "too alcoholic"....>.<. Just can't please some people, eh?
Sorry, think I ADD'd out there. Hope that helps on the sour question. It's lactobacillus with 99% certainty, and I'd bet (assuming your technique is immaculately sterile) its already present in the ball. On the other hand, I've had lactobacillus work its way into some of my koji/aspergillus growing experiments where I knew the fresh rice was sterile....these kind of things just lend themselves to that stuff. I think thats why the chinese started distilling lost of this stuff. That acetone smell adds that "traditional" flavor (seriously).

Good brewing!

P.S.
If you get really into it, there are some papers I remember popping up on Google Scholar (great tool, not as obvious on google nowadays) regarding the mixtures of fungi and bacteria that you find in the wines from different asian nations, which contribute to the differences in aroma and taste.

KevinM said:

Admittedly this thread has always bothered me, because sake most commonly known as rice wine in the us is made differently. I usually call this stuff Korean rice wine to differentiate it from Japanese rice wine.

Sake is made with koji (the enyme producing mold and yeast.) This process also has more specific procedures and steps involving koji additions. Most sake we see is more scientific perfectobrew.

Korean and chinese fermented rice wine uses the rice ball method. This is usually called lao zao, or jiuqu. Or cheongju or makkgeoli. The riceball is then called nuruk. Its more... throw it all together than sake/rice wine is.

The flavors are incredibly different. Thankfully, people know sake as sake these days. But I'd say its kinda like sake for people who don't know.

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Have you read this thread? Or do you just want to argue about wording or be bothered by something? I've read the thread and nowhere does the OP or others who have made this wine, including myself, have ever said this is Sake or like Sake. It's always been presented as what it is.

Thanks Lac.

Glad I could help.

Oh, I've read through it from time to time. The wording doesn't matter too much, its just like like... lager vs ale, in a way, thats all. But Lac really described it better than I about the difference and the flavor components.

KevinM said:

Oh, I've read through it from time to time. The wording doesn't matter too much, its just like like... lager vs ale, in a way, thats all. But Lac really described it better than I about the difference and the flavor components.

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It's been talked about a couple times about the difference between this and Sake. In fact, there's a thread about making Sake here. I think there's a link to it in the first post. I'd like to try making Sake one day. This stuff is just so much easier.

So mine came out VERY sour. Undrinkably sour. I've heard "Sweet" many times, but the sour comment is coming up more and more. Is everyone's a bit sour?

trbig said:

So mine came out VERY sour. Undrinkably sour. I've heard "Sweet" many times, but the sour comment is coming up more and more. Is everyone's a bit sour?

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I don't get sour from mine really at all. There is definitely a "bite" but I would describe it as more of a wine bite. No sour.

sonofgrok said:

I don't get sour from mine really at all. There is definitely a "bite" but I would describe it as more of a wine bite. No sour.

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I wonder if it's like mentioned and comes from the yeast balls used. Which place are you getting yours from? If this batch turns out sour, even though I went with a 1/1 rice/water ratio, I'll try another yeast ball. So far, the yeast are liking this batch. This is the 4th night of bubbling the air lock in my fermenting bin.

Yeah, sonofgrok has it linked for sake.

I get various flavors, but I've always attributed it to one of the other fermenting things in my tiny apartment. Or the fish sauce that I store the yeast balls next to.

sonofgrok said:

I don't get sour from mine really at all. There is definitely a "bite" but I would describe it as more of a wine bite. No sour.

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Yes, the acidity is very similar to wine. No more sour than a glass of wine.

trbig said:

So mine came out VERY sour. Undrinkably sour. I've heard "Sweet" many times, but the sour comment is coming up more and more. Is everyone's a bit sour?

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My first batch came out mouth-puckeringly sour. It was lacto though I am sure. You may have an infection. Fingers crossed for my second batch, should be ready this weekend. I didn't stir this one and used less water

My first batch is done!! From roughly 12-13 cups of uncooked, soaked rice, I yielded about 7 pints of wine. Taste is good, slightly alcoholic.
My wife wants me to back sweeten it. We don't want a 'sweet wine', just something to take a bit of the bite, which is not bad, away.
Let's here your suggestions on what you flavored your wine with.
Thanks

I harvested my batch of rice wine made with Calrose last night and it turned out great. The first time I used a ratio of 1:2 rice/water and it was just way too sour, but I drank it anyways. This go around I used a 1:1 ratio and the difference was night and day. This has the perfect blend of sour/sweet with just a nice dose of alcohol that warmed my tummy. The drier ratio also made for much easier straining of liquid. The 1:1 with 2 cups dry Calrose yielded a pint of yellowish goodness that went into a Grolsch style bottle. Wednesday I was be harvesting my Thai/Jasmine batch and can't wait to see/taste/feel how it turns out.

Anyhow, those who get sour batches might want to try a drier mix before trying to change anything else.

sonofgrok said:

I don't get sour from mine really at all. There is definitely a "bite" but I would describe it as more of a wine bite. No sour.

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It's a nice sourness. Think dry white wine.

Ok, I got all the grains mixed with the crushed yeast balls. I poured the rice out from each jar it was left to cool in into a 5 gallon food grade bucket. I did have to do some persuading with most of them as they wanted to clump. Then broke up any clumps in the bucket with a fork. Sprinkled the yeast ball powder on top, and tossed the rice in the bucket to coat everything. The bucket and the fork where washed between grain types.

If I don't get anything else out of it, I did learn how to get an extremely even distribution of powdered rice yeast ball. For most of the batches every single grain ended up dusted with yeast ball powder.

The exception was the japanese sweet rice. It pretty much turned into a giant rice bogey after cooling. I smeared it in the bottom of the bucket, and coated it with the powdered rice yeast ball.

Then everything went back in it's original cooling/soaking quart jar. The basmati, long grain white, and jasmine rice all got tamped with a fork so they would fit back in the quart jars after the grains had been broken up in the bucket. That was not necessary with the wheat berries, brown rice, or Japanese sweet rice. I used paper towels instead of a cloth in the the jar threads.

The first picture is the Japanese sweet rice soaking while I was starting to cook the other rice types. In the picture with the paper towels installed, the jars are arranged from least to most sticky. From left to right. The final picture is of them all tucked in on a box lid, and covered in a spare towel. I will check on them in 7, 14, and 21 days.

Been reading through this trying to find a consensus on the seperating finished batch. I saw one post that mentioned the clearer liquid was smoother and another that the batch was sweeter if you did not split the two parts.

I just harvested my first batch into a carboy (about 1/2 gal of liquid) and now it is in the fridge. It has seperated some, and I am trying to decide if I should let it seperate or mix it back together when serving. Is there any sort of consensus on this?

Thanks

EndlessPurple said:

Been reading through this trying to find a consensus on the seperating finished batch. I saw one post that mentioned the clearer liquid was smoother and another that the batch was sweeter if you did not split the two parts.

I just harvested my first batch into a carboy (about 1/2 gal of liquid) and now it is in the fridge. It has seperated some, and I am trying to decide if I should let it seperate or mix it back together when serving. Is there any sort of consensus on this?

Thanks

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I believe the preference of the majority is to mix the bottle before serving. I prefer the cleared liquid, though my rice wine was made with regular long grain white rice. That kind of rice has been reported to produce a wine of an inferior quality.