Cooling your hydrometer sample

I have done a couple of all grain batches now, and would like to get more hydrometer readings throughout the sparge. How do you guys sool your hydrometer samples in a timely manner to get a reading. I realize there are temperature adjustment tables, but I would still like to get the sample to <80*. If I take the sample at 170*, it takes a whilke to cool in the ambient air, so I would like to force cool it. Am I just being impatient, or is there a way to do this?

spend $35 on a refractometer?

I put my hydro sample in an ice bath and set the alarm on my thermo to go off at 60.

B

I usually put my sample in a glass (mind out of the gutter) and place some Saran wrap over it, then check it in the morning. If I need to know soon I put it in the freezer with a dig thermo probe, then my thermo is magnetic so it sticks to the outside of the freezer, which is in my garage by my brew setup. I set the alarm on it to go off when it hits 60 degrees and im able to hear it.

With brewing software, I only worry about two measurements. Pre-boil gravity and FG. Software does the rest. Even so, I don't wait on the pre-boil gravity and will start the boil anyway. Worst case, I just add some DME if I missed my target. Once you get your efficiency established, you won't need to do that very often either. I never take gravity readings during the sparge.

Blah, Blah, Blah, sorry it makes sense to me.

The quickest way to cool down a sample for testing is to put the wort in a hydrometer tube and immerse that tube most of the way in a larger container of ice, water and salt.

1. Put hydrometer in pot that is collecting wort after sparge
2. Write down the temp and gravity of wort
3. Enter numbers in beersmith's "hydrometer adjust" tool
4. ???
5. Profit

Stick it in the freezer. I ALWAYS way under shoot the temperature. Everytime I go to pull out the sample it's almost frozen. I underestimate the freezer. Just leave it in a couple minutes and check on it.

BeerPressure said:

1. Put hydrometer in pot that is collecting wort after sparge
2. Write down the temp and gravity of wort
3. Enter numbers in beersmith's "hydrometer adjust" tool
4. ???
5. Profit

Click to expand...

Come on man, everyone knows there's only three steps to profit.

I'm anti Beersmith and pro understanding brewing science and calculating your own recipes. No offense intended, I just think brewing is based on tradition and understanding, so a person owes it to tradition to understand whats going on. So, here's a handy calculation you can use at any temperature.

Hydrometer Temperature Correction:

Actual Gravity = Measured Gravity + (Correction/1000)

Where:
Correction = 0.0011x^2 - 0.0339x - 1.9408
x = Temperature at which you measured the gravity

Quadratic fit of data from "Brewmaster's Bible", Steven Snyder, p 354.

If you want to cool something fast you really need direct contact. Putting it in the freezer is not the fastest way...putting it in ice water is. In a case like this (and most cases involving cooking), conduction will beat convection everytime for quickly removing heat (adding it too...wanna thaw something quickly put it in running warm water...frying is faster than baking, etc.). And sometimes it helps to remember that we are technically removing heat when we cool something.

Is the density of the liquid directly proportional to it's heat or is the equation
less accurate at extremes?

0202 said:

Is the density of the liquid directly proportional to it's heat or is the equation
less accurate at extremes?

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The equation is simply a fit of data similar to that which comes on that little slip of paper in your hydrometer. It assumes isothermal conditions, so has no consideration for thermal gradients in your sample.

It would probably break down at extremes, likely because the temperature of your sample would be changing rapidly. In practice, my typical gravity measurement is at 130-140F, as that appears to be the temp that my mash sample drops to in a couple minutes. I've checked that same sample at various temperatures as it cooled and only saw +/- 1-2 points of total variation.

Sixbillionethans said:

I'm anti Beersmith and pro understanding brewing science and calculating your own recipes. No offense intended, I just think brewing is based on tradition and understanding, so a person owes it to tradition to understand whats going on. So, here's a handy calculation you can use at any temperature.

Hydrometer Temperature Correction:

Actual Gravity = Measured Gravity + (Correction/1000)

Where:
Correction = 0.0011x^2 - 0.0339x - 1.9408
x = Temperature at which you measured the gravity

Quadratic fit of data from "Brewmaster's Bible", Steven Snyder, p 354.

Click to expand...

+1 I've checked the equation many times as well and its accurate. I don't bother cooling anymore. You can do the math much quicker (or excel can).

I put a small sauce pan in the freezer.
It has a thick bottom, so lots of thermal mass.
And, unlike glass, steel can take the thermal shock.

I cool my samples in a small covered jar in ice water (works well in the winter) until it gets below 40C then I take a hydrometer reading and use one of these tables (there are various combinations of SG->SG and SG->Plato and Plato->Plato for Celsius and Fahrenheit) to correct for temperature. The table I&#8217;m using also corrects for the fact that my hydrometer reads a little low (by about 0.5 Plato). I use a table for my broad range and my FG range hydrometer. They are on the front and back of my brewing notes folder.

You should always prevent evaporation when chilling the sample. I used to chill mine in a large open bowl and the readings turned out 0.5 &#8211; 1.0 Plato higher than what it actually was.

Kai

Sixbillionethans said:

I'm anti Beersmith and pro understanding brewing science and calculating your own recipes. No offense intended, I just think brewing is based on tradition and understanding, so a person owes it to tradition to understand whats going on. So, here's a handy calculation you can use at any temperature.

Hydrometer Temperature Correction:

Actual Gravity = Measured Gravity + (Correction/1000)

Where:
Correction = 0.0011x^2 - 0.0339x - 1.9408
x = Temperature at which you measured the gravity

Quadratic fit of data from "Brewmaster's Bible", Steven Snyder, p 354.

Click to expand...

Have you memorized this in your head??? Cuz if you go to the book every time you need the formula you are doing exactly what we Beersmith users do, only you are doing it slower...

It doesn't matter what tool you use. You can use books and advice by word of
mouth and still be negligent of the overall process.

Using a computer program doesn't negate your understanding anymore than
using a book verifies it.

Sixbillionethans said:

I'm anti Beersmith and pro understanding brewing science and calculating your own recipes. No offense intended, I just think brewing is based on tradition and understanding, so a person owes it to tradition to understand whats going on. So, here's a handy calculation you can use at any temperature . . .

Click to expand...

Yeah, that means no calculator, no pencil, no paper. But if it makes you feel better and your beer is good, go to it. Me, I like to use tools.

And as for tradition, just stir your wort with a dirty paddle. We don&#8217;t need no stinkin&#8217; yeast.

Traditionally they didn't "understand what was going on."

I put my hot wort sample in a metal 9" pie tin and swirl it around a few times. Set it on the counter top or in the fridge and the sample is nice and cool in just a few minutes. No need for an ice bath just to cool a wort sample.

Beerthoven said:

I put my hot wort sample in a metal 9" pie tin and swirl it around a few times. Set it on the counter top or in the fridge and the sample is nice and cool in just a few minutes. No need for an ice bath just to cool a wort sample.

Click to expand...

That practice gave me false readings. You may want to compare the gravity of a sample cooled that way and one that you kept in a closed container.

As for using computer programs, I have migrated away from them after having used Beersmith for a long time. The problem was that I never had a running Beersmith application around when I needed it. So I had to go to the computer and start the program just to correct a hydrometer reading. That quickly became cumbersome and I found the tables much more helpful. I even have them for attenuation and alcohol. It is just quicker for me to find the table in my note book than starting Beersmith.

I’m also keeping detailed notes that I don’t bother to put into Beersmith. When I prepare a recipe for a completely new beer I may use Beersmith again. But these days I’m refining recipes a lot. So I don’t need Beersmith for that. If my notes say that the beer should be more bitter I just increase the amount of alpha acids used. If the beer was to dark I dial down the dark malts. And things like efficiency are calculated pretty quickly by hand.

The only cases for which I need a calculator are carbonation and water profile. But for that I have now spreadsheets.

But I do remember they fun it was to design recipes in Beersmith so I see how it can be helpful for many brewers.

Kai

Kaiser said:

That practice gave me false readings. You may want to compare the gravity of a sample cooled that way and one that you kept in a closed container.

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I'll do that on my next brew day Kaiser, thanks for the heads-up.

I usually take my hydro reading right before pitching the yeast, by that time my wort is cooled to around 68-70 degrees. That way, when I take my FG the wort will be at that same temp. No adding and subtracting for me.

brrman said:

Have you memorized this in your head??? Cuz if you go to the book every time you need the formula you are doing exactly what we Beersmith users do, only you are doing it slower...

Click to expand...

No, I've put the equation into the brew spreadsheet that I built.

AnOldUR said:

Yeah, that means no calculator, no pencil, no paper. But if it makes you feel better and your beer is good, go to it. Me, I like to use tools.

And as for tradition, just stir your wort with a dirty paddle. We don&#8217;t need no stinkin&#8217; yeast.

Traditionally they didn't "understand what was going on."

Click to expand...

I may not have been clear enough. I'm all for using spreadsheets, tools, etc. They're great, I just think they're used as a crutch.

The spreadsheet I use was built from the ground up using equations from books or data gathered from books, web, etc. I understand every equation in it, and it has been tailored and optimized to my brewing system, so I have a solid understanding of how the recipes are formulated.

Compare that with the usage of a pre-programmed tool that operates as a black box, and the user can be clueless as to what is really going on under the hood.

Now, you may understand all of the science and still choose to use Beersmith, and that's A-ok. It's not a black box for you. But when I see a comment like "3. Enter numbers in beersmith's "hydrometer adjust" tool" I grow afraid that we're all just letting brewsmith do all the work for us and never truly understanding what's going on.

In the end, it's a hobby and one should gather whatever enjoyment they can from it. For me, I get the most enjoyment from understanding the process and, thus, being able to continually perfect beers for my own personal enjoyment.

I also disagree with your premise that brewers traditionally didn't know what was going on. They may not have known the science, but they KNEW what was going on based on years/generations of acquired knowledge. That's why there are "classic" styles that brewers spend lifetimes trying to perfect.

Cougfan
We used to place 1/2 cup or so of late runnings (when it gets most important) into a ss pot and place the pot in the snow and swirl around about 10 seconds. If you need some snow, ship me an empty box and I will get you some.
Now adays we pull the wort from the mlt with a pump and pressure feed it to bottom of the kettle. It is soft plumbed (hose fittings etc.)
As it exits the pump we pull a sample via a tee fitting and valve and feed it through about 10 feet of copper tubing submerged in cold water. From here we transfer to hydrometer and test. Before each reading though we drain a cup or so out of the coil so it is an up to date sample. All drained and tested wort gets returned to the mlt. Works beautifully.
r
w mi

BeerPressure said:

1. Put hydrometer in pot that is collecting wort after sparge
2. Write down the temp and gravity of wort
3. Enter numbers in beersmith's "hydrometer adjust" tool
4. ???
5. Profit

Click to expand...

Are you making a referance to the "Underpants Gnomes?" If you are, that is frickin funny!!

Sixbillionethans said:

I may not have been clear enough. I'm all for using spreadsheets, tools, etc. They're great, I just think they're used as a crutch.

.....But when I see a comment like "3. Enter numbers in beersmith's "hydrometer adjust" tool" I grow afraid that we're all just letting brewsmith do all the work for us and never truly understanding what's going on.

Click to expand...

Here's my take on this: This is a pretty deep hobby. You can make beer, even great beer without knowing all the math / physics / other sciences behind eveything that goes on. I know that when I started out I was overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge it seemed I had to understand just to get started. But you pick up the main points, brew something, make some mistakes, and go at it again with some lessons learned and hopefully some more knowledge.

Some people only want to get to the point where they can consistently brew good or great beer using beersmith or other "crutches" to do the number crunching for them, and that's all they want (and honestly, maybe all that matters if consistently great beer is the end goal). Some people really need to get farther into the process and understand WHY things work they do.

I think it's really cool that you need and seek out that deeper understanding, but that's not for everyone.

Quick story: when I was in college I was in 3 different types of engineering. All the engineering students had to take Calculus I, II, and III. I've always LOVED math, and I got A's in calc with my $10 calculator that couldn't do anything more complicated than exponents. The vast majority of the other engineering majors got C's or lower with their $120 graphing calculators that they could store every formula in the book into, test answers into, etc.....They got C's because they didn't understand the principles, or have a passion for them, or they just plain hated math. I got out of engineering, but these people (a few of whom I still know) went on to get great engineering jobs, and to this day I bet they couldn't do a lick of calculus because they have computer programs that do the math for them. I don't think that makes them bad engineers.

I don't think it matters what field you are in -- you simply cannot know everything about it. We keep building on knowledge that our ancestors give us, accept it for fact, and go on to discover new ideas based on that knowledge.

Some people are fascinated by the science of brewing, some enjoy the art of it, some get into to save money (ha), some just want to feel the pride of creating great beer, and most are probably a mix of several of these. I don't think that any one of these is a bad thing.

Sixbillionethans said:

In the end, it's a hobby and one should gather whatever enjoyment they can from it. For me, I get the most enjoyment from understanding the process and, thus, being able to continually perfect beers for my own personal enjoyment.

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I very much agree with this -- I think that is what it's all about.

Wow...this seems to have become a VERY touchy subject...geeezz.

Tools are there for us to use and make things easier. Just because someone does or does not use the same methods does not make he/she any better or worse of a beer maker. If HAVING to TOTALLY understand EVERY SINGLE THING makes you happy then GREAT!! If someone wants to use BEERSMITH then what does anyone else care??? I know that when I make beer...and good beer it is...I really don't like having to do equations, or even have the time to...I do enough equations in EE...I'm just enjoying what I am doing and my results are AWSOME!!!

Carry on! :cross:

Tools are just that...tools. Use what works for you.

To cool a sample quickly, put it in a small metal cocktail shaker. Put that in a bowl of ice water for a couple minutes. Done.

Denny said:

Tools are just that...tools. Use what works for you.

To cool a sample quickly, put it in a small metal cocktail shaker. Put that in a bowl of ice water for a couple minutes. Done.

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That's a darn good idea!!!! :rockin:

I just so happen to have one sittin' around collecting dust!!!

Thanks Denny!

Kugster said:

That's a darn good idea!!!! :rockin:

I just so happen to have one sittin' around collecting dust!!!

Thanks Denny!

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I can't take credit for thinking of it, but it works great! BTW, leave the lid of the strainer part and it cools a lot faster.

Martini Shaker used here too... or if I am bored keyboard cleaner turned upside down.

12" of 3/4 Copper pipe with a cap on one end. Fill with wort, submerse in ice bath(I use a wine chiller for the ice bath), in about two minutes you can have the sample down to ~60*. It works great.

JacobInIndy said:

12" of 3/4 Copper pipe with a cap on one end. Fill with wort, submerse in ice bath(I use a wine chiller for the ice bath), in about two minutes you can have the sample down to ~60*. It works great.

Click to expand...

OK, time to break out the tube cutter and solder.

Great idea! :rockin:

Well...after you've broken a hydrometer or two you'll have the tubes they come in kicking around. I put the pre-boil wort in one, take my reading, taste it, then rinse them both, but I can put the hydrometer back in its proper tube in a timely manner w/o breaking it

Or build one of these:



This is a hydrometer sample cooling device I saw in an old brewery.

Kai

khuygie88 said:

Well...after you've broken a hydrometer or two you'll have the tubes they come in kicking around. I put the pre-boil wort in one, take my reading, taste it, then rinse them both, but I can put the hydrometer back in its proper tube in a timely manner w/o breaking it

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I used to do that, until I put some wort that was too hot in it and it melted and warped the tube. Now I can't fit the hydro in it for storage, let alone a reading.

As long as its not too hot and gonna melt anything why bother cooling it? Seems like a lot of fuss when there are calcs that adjust your gravity for temp. Here is one that I use and it has a bunch of other calcs too...

BrewCalcs: Free Homebrewing Calculations Specifically the Hydrometer Gravity Corrector section

dmob29 said:

As long as its not too hot and gonna melt anything why bother cooling it?

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b/c you may crack your hydrometer. These things are not build to withstand the thermal shock of near boiling wort.

Kai

Kaiser said:

b/c you may crack your hydrometer. These things are not build to withstand the thermal shock of near boiling wort.

Kai

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Very good point! Glass in wort = bad!!

Do most usually take a reading right after the boil? I guess to see what your effeciency is right?

dmob29 said:

Very good point! Glass in wort = bad!!

Do most usually take a reading right after the boil? I guess to see what your effeciency is right?

Click to expand...

Take one Pre-Boil to get effeciency of your mash...then one after to get your SG.

Yeah, the hydrometer won't take the excessive heat...I put my wort in my tube (plastic) and stick it in the door of my fridge then after a while I check it...using Beersmith to make the adjustment for me (which others disagree with) because it's a tool and makes my job easier.

Correct me if wrong, but I don't think there will be a reading difference if I wait an hour to take a reading, will there?

Kugster said:

Take one Pre-Boil to get effeciency of your mash...then one after to get your SG.

Yeah, the hydrometer won't take the excessive heat...I put my wort in my tube (plastic) and stick it in the door of my fridge then after a while I check it...using Beersmith to make the adjustment for me (which others disagree with) because it's a tool and makes my job easier.

Correct me if wrong, but I don't think there will be a reading difference if I wait an hour to take a reading, will there?

Click to expand...

No, it won't be different. But by then it'll be too late to adjust the boil to suit your actual OG. I've got a new barley crusher, and my efficiency has been varying. I've got from 72-88% efficiency in January. So, I check the OG so that I can adjust the hopping rates. Once my efficiency is dialed in, then I'll probably not worry about the preboil OG as much.

I've used Beersmith to adjust the OG, but it's notoriously inaccurate over 100 degrees. I'd tried it. Take the temp of the sample and use the tool and adjust it, then simply cool that same sample. They've been so far off that the first one (taking with 170 degree wort) is useless. I now use a small round pitcher and put ice water in it and cool my sample in that. It takes about 6-7 minutes to get it under 80 degrees, then I check the OG and adjust to the calibration temperature.