Carapils and Caramel as specialties in extract brewing

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sloppy

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I am still doing extract brewing, but also steep specialties for an hour in the 150F-160F range, prior to adding the extract.

This has worked fine with roast barley and black patent. I don't pretend to understand the sugar and enzyme issues; I simply know that I can clearly taste this stuff in my stout.

But when I read about Carapils and Crystal/Caramel malt, everything I see on the net suggests that I've been using them wrong: unless you mash these with pale malt (or something else that contributes enzymes), steeping won't actually extract the sugars. Is that right?

Should I be using these types of grains in combination with a pound or two of 2-row or something like that? Or, alternatively, should I be steeping these grains after adding some extract to the water?
 
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But both carapils and crystal/carmel malt just aren't vey high in fermentables regardless of what you do to them. They are more for improving mouthfeel than anything else. Crystal/carmel malt also adds color and flavor too.

I've been steeping them between 150 - 160F in my extract brews too.
 
Whether fermentable or not, doesn't the process used and enzymes present (e.g. amylase), have an effect on what (starches versus dextrins) these specialty grains end up contributing to the wort for mouthfeel?

I guess what's got me confused, is that as a newbie, I can't figure out when and for what types of grains, steeping is enough, versus when partial mashing is required. I look at a web page like this which says "Carapils must be mashed with pale malt, due to its lack of enzymes," and get the impression that merely steeping carapils in plain water, isn't enough.
 
Carapils will give you starch haze if it isn't mashed.

Caramels will give you about half as much steeped as mashed. Palmer has some good charts in howtobrew.com chapter 13.
 
sloppy said:
I am still doing extract brewing, but also steep specialties for an hour in the 150F-160F range, prior to adding the extract.

This has worked fine with roast barley and black patent. I don't pretend to understand the sugar and enzyme issues; I simply know that I can clearly taste this stuff in my stout.

But when I read about Carapils and Crystal/Caramel malt, everything I see on the net suggests that I've been using them wrong: unless you mash these with pale malt (or something else that contributes enzymes), steeping won't actually extract the sugars. Is that right?

Should I be using these types of grains in combination with a pound or two of 2-row or something like that? Or, alternatively, should I be steeping these grains after adding some extract to the water?

I was wondering the same thing. Mash/steep with some *ME or just in water?
 
david_42 said:
Carapils will give you starch haze if it isn't mashed.

Caramels will give you about half as much steeped as mashed. Palmer has some good charts in howtobrew.com chapter 13.

I second that, I brewed a pale ale with 60L crystal and 1/2lb of Carapils, steeped. Even with clarifiers, their is still a ton of haze in the beer. And its cause the carapils. I suggest doing a mini-mash if you are going to use carapils.
 
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