NB Sierra Madre: How Can I Describe This?

Hey Everyone.

New to the forum and back into home brewing after a 15 year hiatus.

Enjoying (or trying to) my 3rd batch - the Sierra Madre extract kit from Northern Brewer. I'm not exactly sure how to describe what I'm tasting, but if this is supposed to be in the Sierra Nevada ballpark, something went wrong. The aroma is on the sweet side. And there's a clear aftertaste that seems to be an equal mix of sweetness and bitterness - but they're not getting along.

Not sure what may have gone wrong - or if this is what I'm supposed to be tasting. Here's a recap:

* 3 gallon boil; topped off in the primary. (Just upgraded to a pot that will allow a full boil on my next batch so I'm interested to see what effect that will have. Have read that it helps.)
* Cooled in an ice bath. 190 to 80 in 20 minutes. Dropped to mid-70s in primary by the time I pitched. (Due to added room temp water.)
* Dry yeast for this batch. (Used a liquid in a Chinook IPA that's ready to bottle so also curious to see what kind of difference this makes.)
* 2 weeks primary, 4 weeks secondary, 3 weeks in the bottle all in the basement at roughly 68 degrees
* OG 1.048, FG 1.012

Thoughts? Hit me.

Wow....nothing?

You're process looks fine. What's in the kit?

I'm assuming the yeast was US-05, that's the same strain Sierra Nevada uses.

Sierra Nevada is kind-of sweet and bitter. Have you tried them both side by side (preferably blind)?

I racked my Sierra Madre to secondary last weekend. Tasted fine to me, and it looks as if we both followed the same procedure. Except, my fermentation temperature was pretty much rock steady at 62F, since I use a fermentation chamber. Did you control temperature at all? Of course, unless your temp climbed over 70 for a long period of time, I don't think that is the problem.

Were you extremely careful to sanitize EVERYTHING that touches the liquid when racking from one container to the next? As well as sanitizing the fermentation vessels, wine theif, everything and anything that ever touches the wort post-boil?

I would try a blind taste test with the real deal. Have you ever had SN pale ale? gotta ask!

Good luck, I don't see much wrong with your process so far though.

If memory serves me correctly when I made this kit it came close in taste to SN Pale Ale. I kept mine in the primary for the five or six week duration and in the bottles for three weeks before sticking them in the fridge. I used liquid yeast though. It was very a good beer. AHS West Coast Pale Ale was another that came close and was awsome.

Appreciate the responses. Glad to hear the process looks solid.

Ravenshead, here are the kit components:
1/2 lb Briess Caramel 60 Specialty Grains for steeping
6 lbs Gold malt syrup
1 lb Briess Golden Light DME
1/2 oz Summit hops at 0 min of boil
1 oz Perle hops at 20 min
1 oz Cascade at end
Safale US-05 Ale Yeast (dry)

As I've forced down a few more of these, an issue almost as noticeable as the off taste is the really light carbonation and very poor head retention. And I'm sitting here wondering if I rehydrated the yeast. I know I did on my prior batch, and I enjoyed it a lot more than this one. There is nothing in these instructions that tells you to do this but I read it in Palmer's book. This would explain a lot, I'm sure.

I should write down all the key steps. Seems I always forget something.

The recipe looks fine though not as hoppy as I would have thought. SA-05 is a tough yeast, a lot of people don't re-hydrate it (not recommended) without issue. I doubt that's the problem even if you pitched dry. If you pull the tech sheet on SA-05 it will have re-hydrating instructions.

You could add 1/2 to 1 lbs of carapils to help with head, the half pound of crystal may be a little light for that. The only thing that would hurt your carbonation would be the amount of priming sugar. How much did you use?

That still doesn't address your taste issue. I don't see anything that would affect that other than your pallet. You really need to to try a blind taste test.

FWIW: I would have dry-hopped with cascade but what you have shouldn't taste bad.

Pretty sure he meant 2oz Cascade at flame out. Because that is what my kit came with (instructions said it too) Its a nicely hopped Pale Ale.

I can't figure it out, either. Same kit, same procedure and after primary mine taste pretty good (flat but good!)

Ravenshead - used the standard 5 oz bag of priming sugar that comes with these kits. Could be that I did not mix it well enough with the batch before bottling.

Nymtber - double checked my instructions and it does say 1 oz Cascade, in two different places. Tossed the packets, but maybe I did get 2 oz.

Could be a sanitation issue. Will have to be tighter about that.

But I do think yeast had something to do with it. Fermentation activity looked OK, but weak compared to this last batch I made which was my first with the Wyeast smack pack. That fermentation was crazy. First time I saw the need for a blow-off tube.

Final gravity on this SM was 1.012. No idea if that's near the target because these instructions don't tell you what you're shooting for. Maybe the fermentation wasn't as effective as it needed to be.

Tried the blind taste test last night and it was beyond easy to ID the SN vs. mine. They're not even close.

Next batch (Chinook IPA) is ready to drink next weekend, so I'm hoping for some better results.

I've got nothing then. I wouldn't blame the SA-05 though. It the same strain as the Wyeast 1056. I use and re-use it all the time. Maybe you just got an old package.

1012 is fine for an FG. Sanitation maybe an issue but it's pretty hard to screw that up with extract. You'd most likely see other signs of infection--strange things in the fermenter, gushing bottles etc.

Now that I think about, de-carbonate (leave it out warm overnight) and take another sample. If you have a bug, you may see it in a lower SG. I'm grasping at straws here so take this advise as worth what you paid for it.

Edit: According to Fermentis, rehydrating yeast is not required: http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/EN/Safale_US-05_HB.pdf.

Summit instead of Magnum? That's an interesting choice by NB that could account for some of the difference in bittering character.

The extract probably accounts for the lingering sweetness.

UPDATE!

So of course I couldn't wait and popped the Chinook IPA a little earlier in order to compare. (Two weeks in the bottle and I try to wait 3.) The difference between this and my "bad" Sierra Madre batch is night and day.

Picture is wort a thousand words. IPA on the right. A lot more like what I was expecting out of the Sierra.

You bottle that Chinook IPA with priming sugar also?

Same priming sugar - type and amount. Baffled.

Lol, Lazarus here, just raising this post from the dead. Don't jump on me for being 3 years late to post on this, I was wandering around the forums looking for Sierra Madre reviews as I was thinking about brewing it.

The symptoms you describe are identical to those I experienced when I made NBs Bavarian Hefeweizen extract kit. I never really figured out what happened, but I put it down to pitching when the wort was still a little too hot > high diacetyl > and the heat maybe killing the yeast. But I had a somewhat slick mouthfeel, no head retention, very little carbonation and a sweetness I didn't like.