Cooper's Kits - feedback requested!

Hi,

I just got a Cooper's Kit (w/Lager, IPA & 'Real Ale batches)

I have questions:

1) Anyone who has tried this 'self-contained' kit comments/feedback?

It seems like a good kit, easy to use and all that. Specifically looking for other's compliments/comments/roadblocks/issues with them.

2) PET (plastic) bottle feedback (good or bad?)

I am sure those who are 'old school' will recommend glass over plastic for it's plusses. Right now I see more plusses with the plastic (sani, no capping, no breakage, etc.) as a viable alternative to standard or growler bottles

Thanks and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
may your next brew always be better than the one before!

Texas Stu

The self contained systems are ok for learning. If you want to keep brewing, you will probably want to get some other equipment to at least do some extract batches.

Is your question on glass vs plastic for bottling or fermenting? A glass fermenter is always perfered over a plastic. Easier to clean, do not harbor bacteria, good for longer strage. As for bottling, I always go with glass. They sell glass pop top bottles at every grocery store. The great thing is they come with free beer inside them.

Good luck on the first kit.

Their kits are fine, they all taste good. The IPA is not that impressive but it's by no means bad... still went quick .

Their bottles work fine, but they get a bit expensive if you stock up. I've had a few of the caps work their way off because of pressure so make sure you tighten well.

Thanks for the reply!
My bottling question was for bottling.
The Cooper's kit has a nice (rounded bottom/sides) primary fermenter (with spigot, seals, sediment-reducer & airlock( - see: Coopers Microbrewery Kit | Beer Making Kit

Secondary fermentation (according to the kit) is done while in bottles.
Obviously the plastic bottles are not suited for longterm (over 6 mos.? but recommended by others as fine unless over a year?).

The kit/system is 4-6 days in primary fermenter tand then 7-14 days (minimum) in bottles.

I'm sure I will play with various methods and equipment. The Coopers kit (now distributed in the USA) which originated in Australia from the brewery of the same name I picture as more of a 'get your feet wet'/disposable solution for 1st time users.

I would be very interested in hearing from ANYONE who has one and has used it (even fairly consistantly for several batches and over time.

Still using my Coopers Primary a year later. I made the 'lager' it came with and switched to LHBS kits after that. Don't do anything that can scratch the inside and you have a great fermenter.

Read "How to Brew" online or buy "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" and follow the directions from those sources. The kit directions are guaranteed to confuse and discourage.

Those PET bottles are really good for telling you when your beer is well carbonated. The plastic becomes very rigid and there is no flex when you squeze. Yes, make sure you put the lids on good and tight and check them once in a while.

Welcome to the obsession.! If you're married, remember to pay at least a little attention to your wife once in a while. Brewing will take over your life. A year ago, I got the kit. Now I brew AG, keg my own and built a keggerator to serve 3 beers on tap.

Thanks Kilgore! I sure appreciate hearing positives about the Cooper's kit!
I'm antsy to get home and sanitize, looking to start a batch this weekend!
I did get a bottle of their sanitizer (sodium percarbonate) as seen HERE.

I have enough supplies to make 2 batches and just lack the additional bottles to produce a 3rd batch. Obviously I doubt I will have emptied the 1st batch before I am ready to bottle the 3rd batch so I was looking at bottle info specifically (at this time) to make an additional purchase (enough for 23 liters).

I am also trying to figure out a good bottle-racking/storage solution to organise and store bottled batches prior to drinking/refridgerating. That is not nearly as urgent of course.

I'm just trying to do it 'right' (with what I have) so I don't have initial adverse results that might 'turn me off' to continuing brewing.

I've been a lover of microbrews, pale ales and such for decades. One of my favorite purchases is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (and related brews by them). I love a hopsy brew.
I want to produce tasty variations as well, eventually (summer ales, winter ales, seasonals, etc.) and I think I went a good way with the Cooper's kit (based on reviews) to get the best quality for ease of use and lack of available brewing space in my home based on what others have previously written. I hope I made a good choice and it gives me at least a year's worth of batches before I feel I need to 'expand'/restructure.

Thanks Teufel!

I think they have revamped the kit somewhat. Mine came with a DVD of the instructions (as well as the printed user manual). Seems rather straight-forward but I do have a question about the 'invert bottles 4 times' part of the instructions. Not mentioned at all in the DVD. Slow flip 4 times right after capping OR 'stationed' and 4 inverts over the entire 'secondary fermentation' period? (1-2 weeks?) They don't tell you. perhaps you can shed light on that?

Here's a great article from Oz.Craftbrewer.com, on how to make the best beer with cooper's kits...It's from Australia, the home of coopers, and from the craftbrewer radio guys.

Improving Your Kit

Thanks Revvy! I'll take a look!

I would seriously use those Coopers fermenters as my primaries if I could find some! Those are frickin' nice looking vessels!! I am stuck with ghetto food grade plastic pails with lids.

To clean a plastic fermenter give it a good 2 day soak with Oxyclean solution, 1 half scoop per gallon/4L. After the soak, pour off half of the solution and shake up the fermenter really well for 30 seconds to remove any remaining stuck-on goop. Then dump and rinse really well with hot tap water. Voila, clean fermenter with no scrubbing. If there is any residue left after all that, I just use my finger to gently rub it off while running water over the spot. If you can't reach inside a few paper towels tossed in and then shaken with a little bit of hot water will usually loosen it right up. With this method you don't scratch your plastic and you will get years of service from it!

As long as you wait 2-3 weeks before bottling you will have little residue in the bottles so no worries about no secondary vessel. Bottling in plastic is fine. Soda bottles generally don't work well because they aren't meant to be reused, but I have found that you can reuse 1L seltzer bottles over and over, as they have much thicker walls. My grocer also sells cheap flavored carbonated water beverage in very thick walled plastic. For 50c each I drink the contents and reuse the 1L bottles. Location says SE Texas if you have HEB I'm talking about the HEB flavored carbonated waters.


Cheers

Thanks Sacc!

I only have Brookshire Bros. stores nearby (50 miles to closest HEB). I think I will try the PET (plastic) bottles for a time and see how much I do NOT like them. A part of me dispises the aestetics of a plastic bottle but I realise I will be pouring it into glass to drink. Got a collection growing of glassware (including some pint glasses from Nawlins).
I wanted to hear how bad they are but time is a great teller of that, eh?

I do love the design of the Cooper fermenter. having no 90 degree parts to accumulate bacteria is the best part but I will see.

i love the cooper's real ale kit. makes a great session beer
i usually do it by boiling one pound of light DME for twenty minutes then adding the cooper's kit, stirring it, covering it, turning off the burner and leaving it alone for twenty minutes.

not telling you how to do it, just saying that's how i usually get the best results from canned beer kits.

also...i must agree that those cooper's plastic buckets are excellent primary fermentors.
i had one my first year of brewing.
had to give it back when the guy who brought it to my house finally came back for it. (he made one batch with me, then got lazy, and a year later, he got the urge again)

Pardon my ig'nance.. what is DME?

Saccharomyces said:

I would seriously use those Coopers fermenters as my primaries if I could find some! Those are frickin' nice looking vessels!! I am stuck with ghetto food grade plastic pails with lids.

To clean a plastic fermenter give it a good 2 day soak with Oxyclean solution, 1 half scoop per gallon/4L. After the soak, pour off half of the solution and shake up the fermenter really well for 30 seconds to remove any remaining stuck-on goop. Then dump and rinse really well with hot tap water. Voila, clean fermenter with no scrubbing. If there is any residue left after all that, I just use my finger to gently rub it off while running water over the spot. If you can't reach inside a few paper towels tossed in and then shaken with a little bit of hot water will usually loosen it right up. With this method you don't scratch your plastic and you will get years of service from it!

As long as you wait 2-3 weeks before bottling you will have little residue in the bottles so no worries about no secondary vessel. Bottling in plastic is fine. Soda bottles generally don't work well because they aren't meant to be reused, but I have found that you can reuse 1L seltzer bottles over and over, as they have much thicker walls. My grocer also sells cheap flavored carbonated water beverage in very thick walled plastic. For 50c each I drink the contents and reuse the 1L bottles. Location says SE Texas if you have HEB I'm talking about the HEB flavored carbonated waters.


Cheers

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+1 on Coopers, I own 2 of them and absolutely love it. If I get my hands on another one I'll pick it up for sure. They are perfect size to fit into my 70 qt cooler with the lid closed (using blow off tube). They are also larger then 6.5 gallon (what most HBS kits use) so there is more room for the yeasties to work. In fact in 5 batches only batch #1 had crazy airlock activity but that was due to pitching to high and keeping around 75.

Keep a good care of your Coopers fermentor and it will last you for many years. You can also use it as a bottling bucket.

As far as their beer kits go they have completely different instructions then other HBS made kits. You should also let the beer sit longer then what the instructions say (at least 3 weeks in primary) and 3 weeks in bottles.

TexasStu said:

Pardon my ig'nance.. what is DME?

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Dried Malt Extract sir.
no worries...i still don't understand all the abbreviated lingo either

Hello and welcome.

I bought the Coopers Micro-Brew kit too. I'm still on my first brew though. So far it's been in the primary ten days.

The kit and equipment are great... just ignore the instruction manual, lol... the guys on here will put you in the right direction. Four to seven days is not enough time in the primary.

Ah, Thanks Belgian!

Great info, Pivzavod! I apprecite your contribution to my learning-curve!
I intended on using the 'basic' ground-rules of the two consecutive days at same specific gravity to determine 'time to bottle'.
Would you say that even if the gravity changes 'flatten out' I should still wait additional time prior to bottling? If so, how do you determine how much longer to wait?

Another question I have floating atop all the other questions is..

Temperature.
Obviously I want as stable a temp as possible and I will be bottling probably during the coldest time of year. To avoid 'spikes' I also purchased a heating 'belt' from homebrew in Austin. ..(Sidenote: WONDERFUL turn-around time! I had received delivery the next day! I would gladly order from them again).. But I am concerned it is not regulated. Of course, I will be brewing indoors and we have central heat OR A/C (old thermostat type?).. I am considering doing my 1st batch primary in corner of kitchen counter. Obviously external influences like cooking as well as day/night can pose spiking issues outside my desired temp. range. I was considering using a old throw blanket around fermenter to lessen these 'spikes'. Not sure if even using the heat belt is a good idea or not. I obviously do not want to go above 75F (especially doing the Lager first).
I realise it's not rocket science but yeast comes pretty ddarn close (with it's temp. range) and I look at it kind of like when I made silicon chips (back in Silicon Valley) in a diffusion lab. Without the correct temp., it just won't 'grow'. (Another lifeform of it's own).

I got a Coopers' beer kit two years ago for Christmas. I wasn't that impressed with the pre-hopped Coopers kit. My .02 is dont use sugar like the recipe says but rather go with some dme. My two Coopers beers had a cidery taste that I later found out is common with beer that use sugar. I have sinced moved on to other extract kits. I will say this. The hardware that comes in the Coopers kit is great, Especially the fermenter. I too wish I could just buy a Coopers primary without buying all the other stuff that I dont need.Welcome to the addiction

You leave it in the primary even after there are two consecutive days at the same hydrometer reading so the yeast has a chance to clear up all the by-products of fermentation.

Three weeks is recommended as a minimum I think... but I'm going to bottle my first batch after two weeks because I simply can't discipline myself to wait any longer, lol... my second batch (which is brewing in my second primary now) I will endeavour to wait three weeks.

Thanks NZGirl!
Nice to be here!
Has your (1st batch) 'leveled off' with the hydrometer readings? How much are you still dropping each day?
I imagined the 4-7 days would be minimum. As with the 14 days in the bottle. I imagined more like 21-30 in the bottle and the longer the better (up until the disadvantages of the plastic vs. glass kicks in and we start losing carbonation) - probly over a year?

Thanks Phunhog!

I will have to see how it works out and will likely make the logical 'ascension' eventually!

Let me know how the differences turn out for you, NZGirl! I am very interested to hear your results!

TexasStu said:

Thanks NZGirl!
Nice to be here!
Has your (1st batch) 'leveled off' with the hydrometer readings? How much are you still dropping each day?
I imagined the 4-7 days would be minimum. As with the 14 days in the bottle. I imagined more like 21-30 in the bottle and the longer the better (up until the disadvantages of the plastic vs. glass kicks in and we start losing carbonation) - probly over a year?

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I forgot to take an OG with my first batch... silly me... but after it was in the fermenter for about eight days I took a reading and it was 1008. I haven't taken another one, I think if I took one now it would still be 1008.

I'm going to taste my beer after two weeks in a bottle, then again after three weeks... and save some for four weeks etc so I can see how it improves with time.

TexasStu said:

Let me know how the differences turn out for you, NZGirl! I am very interested to hear your results!

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For sure, I can't wait, it's so exciting

I intend on (easy to say) keeping a notebook and logging results that I can learn from and apply to future batches.

NZGirl, why won't you take another now just to confirm your hypothosis?

A question for all here: How critical is it to bottle (rather than let 'sit') immediately based on hydrometer readings? What other 'downsides' might there be to the aforememntioned 'upside' of a cleaner tasting beer if you wait another (say) week?

You really can't go wrong by letting it sit 3 weeks in the fermenter before bottling. Most brews are best 6-12 weeks after brewing, so following a 3-3 or 2-1-3 schedule of primary-bottle or primary-secondary-bottle will yield great results.

It's hard to wait that long on your first batch, which is why you should start your second as soon as the fermenter is available.

TexasStu said:

A question for all here: How critical is it to bottle (rather than let 'sit') immediately based on hydrometer readings? What other 'downsides' might there be to the aforememntioned 'upside' of a cleaner tasting beer if you wait another (say) week?

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There is no downside to leaving it another week (or 2 or 3) only the upside with cleaner tasting clearer beer.

I obviously need more fermenters!

TexasStu said:

I obviously need more fermenters!

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Of course you do! That is just a silly thing to even question.

Heh, more of an observation, actually. But I am a self-admitted n00b so using my 'slack' while I can?

Here is (yet) another question I could use help with....

Ok, I have the brand new (read: unused) Cooper's fermenter...
Obviously it would be best to let sit in the sanitizer overnight. Of course the kit's instructions say otherwise (just rinse and go for it).

Should I soak all the parts overnight in the fermenter (in sanitizing solution) OR should I be okay with doing a 10-15 minute soak on all this never-used stuff?
I am not talking bottles here, just the fermenter, o-rings, air valve, spigot and spoon(?)

TexasStu said:

Should I soak all the parts overnight in the fermenter (in sanitizing solution) OR should I be okay with doing a 10-15 minute soak on all this never-used stuff?
I am not talking bottles here, just the fermenter, o-rings, air valve, spigot and spoon(?)

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It depends on what sanitizer you are using, but none of the common sanitizers require an overnight soak. Starsan, bleach and iodoform all require 5 min or less contact, as best I recall. I use starsan, which is easy and quick.

Cooper's brand (sodium percarbonate) as seen HERE.

Thank though, I think you pretty much helped me make up my mind. I'll worry more after my 1st batch when I clean for the next batch

Yesterday I bottled a batch in made in Coopers fermentor (first time using Party Pig). Today I bottled another batch made in my 9 gallon fermentor and currently cooling down wort that will go into my other Coopers fermentor. I took out my White Labs out of the fridge 6 hours ago. In order to get it adjusted to room temperature better I kept it in a cup of rotated water which was kept between 70-75. I am not making a starter (I will only use Wyeast Activators for liquid yeast from now) and I wanted to kick start the yeasties as much as I could without a starter.

Not bad for a newbie? Next week I am getting 2 kits (Hanks Hefe & Witbier), both with liquid yeast, I will brew a New Year beer and furthermore establish my pipeline.

Now time to update the signature....

Not bad 2 days for a newbie

OK!
I have some warm wort so am waiting to pitch the yeast until it gets a few degrees cooler. Wish my wort luck and thanks for the replies!

Thanks again!

I pitched and sealed at 2000 CST tonight. If I messed up somewhere I imagine I'll find out. If not I should be bottling by the 16th!

I *always* screw something up but my beer comes out fine..

When I have a smooth brewday where nothing went wrong, I worry I *REALLY* messed up.

Saccharomyces said:

I *always* screw something up but my beer comes out fine..

When I have a smooth brewday where nothing went wrong, I worry I *REALLY* messed up.

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lol

TexasStu, I can't believe you're going to be patient and wait until the 16th! Good on you! Congrats on getting the first brew up and going...

It'll be bubbling by morning no doubt.

Good to hear, NZGirl! I'm already worried because it doesn't seem to be bubbling at all and it's been 5 hours! I'll check in the morning and see

Oh! and I didn't say I'd wait. I said by the 16th.
I'm going to TRY to wait 3 full weeks though. Not sure I'll make it throught the night at this point.
Ever feel like your batch is your baby (with SIDS?) LOL! Well, I'm off to try to get a few winks and see how it goes
Enjoy!

haha Mr Impatient... my batches weren't bubbling within the first few hours either... but I think by the time you get up in the morning it will be...

But don't worry if it's not... I've read it can even take 72 hours...

Let us know if it's bubbling...

Tex -

What OG did you log into the notebook which you have started?

Just curious, since I intend to do a lot of experimenting with extract kits as well.

Pogo