Can't get stainless compression fitting to sit tight on my copper CFC!

I have this CFC from B3 which uses 5/8" copper for wort transfer (inner coil):

I want to stick stainless QD's on the bare copper ends so I figured a couple of these 5/8" compresssion x 1/2" FPT fittings would do the trick (also from B3):

Problem is that they're a bit loose. I can't get it to sit tight on the bare 5/8" and cranking then tigher is just deforming the copper in a smallish area.

The QD's I'm using are the typical stainless 1/2" ones from B3:

So how I do stick a couple of these QD's on the CFC wort in/out lines and have a nice tight reliable connection? Any ideas?

Thanks!

Kal

If you are using compression fittings on copper you need a rigid insert. They are normally made of brass or hardened copper for brass compression fittings. Soft copper is so soft it will collapse under the pressure of a compression fitting so you need the inner sleeve thingy to reinforce the metal.

Similar to item #50915K247 from McMaster-Carr.

Before you go restricting the ID of the tubing with an insert, I'd like to suggest you replace the stainless ferrule with either a nylon ferrule or a stack of 2 or 3 silicone ORINGs. The #113 oring size would be ideal.

Interesting. Good ideas guys.

There are 4 pieces to these compression fittings. Here's a picture:



If I understand correctly, the ferrule the 3rd from the left right? Simply putting in a nylon one would ensure that I don't crush/compress the copper I'm assuming.

Bobby: I don't follow what you mean by 2 or 3 silicone o-rings. Are you saying replace the entire ferrule with 2-3 silicone o-rings? Wouldn't that cause the thing to wobble around a lot and not provide a tight fit?

Kal

Any reason not to use a 5/8" compression fitting like this one from Lowe's?

Anderson Barrows at Lowe's: 5/8" x 3/4" Compression Connector

If that is a stainless fitting it is an unreal price. I wonder if how quality they are???

Any reason not to sweat a copper female adapter on that?

Did you tighten the fitting the required 7 flats from finger tight (1 1/6 rotation) to swage the ferrules onto the tubing.

That's a 2-piece ferrule so if you try a nylon one, remove both. The stack of orings works really well. It's how I put the polycarbonate tube into the fitting for my sightglass. As the nut tightens down, it pushes the orings further into that cone so they get tighter around the tubing.

The nylon ferrule is a lot softer than stainless so it seals with a lot less force.

BargainFittings said:

Any reason not to sweat a copper female adapter on that?

Click to expand...

That's an excellent question. After I posted this I wondered why I wouldn't just sweat (solder) on a brass or copper 1/2" FPT x 5/8" female straight fitting and be done with. No compression fittings needed. Why the hell did I buy these compression fittings??

All I'm trying to do is get these 1/2" MPT QD's:

Onto the 5/8" bare copper pipe on this:


Kal

Bobby_M said:

Before you go restricting the ID of the tubing with an insert, I'd like to suggest you replace the stainless ferrule with either a nylon ferrule or a stack of 2 or 3 silicone ORINGs. The #113 oring size would be ideal.

Click to expand...

I tried the 3 silicone o-ring idea that Bobby had. Turns out that the keg post o-rings fit perfectly (I have a bag of 100 silicone ones from McMaster). The thing is super-snug. Great idea! If I have any problems with leaks I'll just sweat on a fitting and be done with.

In retrospect using stainless compression fittings is expensive/overkill but I already have them now so why not use them.... Not sure why I didn't think of sweating on something simpler.

Kal

Closing the loop here: After more than a year of brewing the o-ring idea is still working great.

I created instructions for building my wort chiller setup on my brewing site which includes the ideas from this thread.

See: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/wort-chiller

Kal

kladue said:

Did you tighten the fitting the required 7 flats from finger tight (1 1/6 rotation) to swage the ferrules onto the tubing.

Click to expand...

Well, it's a little late now, but I was wondering the same thing. I've never had problems mating either brass or stainless SL fittings with copper tubing.

JKoravos said:

Well, it's a little late now, but I was wondering the same thing. I've never had problems mating either brass or stainless SL fittings with copper tubing.

Click to expand...

I did and it was hard to get a good leak free fit. The o-ring way seems to create a better seal.

Kal

kal said:

Closing the loop here: After more than a year of brewing the o-ring idea is still working great.

I created instructions for building my wort chiller setup on my brewing site which includes the ideas from this thread.

See: http://theelectricbrewery.com/node/18

Kal

Click to expand...

Execellent write up! I just placed my order for the Chillus Convolutus and the SS compression fittings and thermo. I have all the other parts and will use my male camlocks in place of the male QD's you mentioned.

I couldn't quite grasp what you and Bobby were referring to with the orings. The pictures in the write up made it very clear.

Thank you for taking the time to do that. The links were a huge help ti insure I got the right parts.

Cool! Glad it helped! I'm a visual person myself too so lots of pictures are always the best I find.

Good luck!

Kal

Got my chiller and parts in. Added the camlock QD's as it goes with the rest of my connections. Has a larger footprint than I would like (due to the collars I added to make the camlocks work), but it'll do. Thanks again Kal fro your write up. Couldn't have done it without it!





Checking the thermo against my calibrated digital. Appears to be spot on.

Nice job!

Though I'm not sure I like it... with the QDs also on your water lines, yours has more shiny parts than mine!

Kal

copper inside of copper?

big beefy expensive DIY chiller right there

-=Jason=-

Flomaster said:

copper inside of copper?

big beefy expensive DIY chiller right there

-=Jason=-

Click to expand...

?

It's not DIY. It's a commercial product. See here.

Many of us use these CFC's. I explain why I think it's one of the best solutions on my site here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/wort-chiller

Kal

kal said:

?

It's not DIY. It's a commercial product. See here.

Many of us use these CFC's. I explain why I think it's one of the best solutions on my site here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/wort-chiller

Kal

Click to expand...

ahh quite a bit larger than the 1/4" ID of the DIY CFC I'm sure it works a treat, but its not the the budget brewer thats for sure.

-=Jason=-

I don't see how this is working? A 5/8" compression fitting is HUGE on the pipe. I called fermentap, they said a 1/2" copper sweat fitting would work, so I bought 2- 1/2" to 1/2"FTP, and they we're super loose as well.

I've never sweated copper before, my dad said he could do it, and now they both leak(he did a crap job, but they certainly did not fit like they we're supposed to). This is crap, $200 for a stupid chiller you can't put fittings on.

I would love to crush someone's skull right now. Why not use damn copper tubing you can get a freaking fitting for!!!! Man i'm PISSED!

how about a 3/8" compression fitting?

-=Jason=-

Flomaster said:

how about a 3/8" compression fitting?

-=Jason=-

Click to expand...

1/2" is to small and 5/8" is to big. Although I haven't tried sandwiching 30 orings on there, should I have to?

wildwest450 said:

1/2" is to small and 5/8" is to big. Although I haven't tried sandwiching 30 orings on there, should I have to?

Click to expand...

well by rights no you shouldn't HAVE to, but it might work.

another thing to consider is cooper tube sizing Vs. Iron Pipe Size.

Copper Tube size is smaller OD than Iron Pipe size. if your fittings are meant for Iron pipe not copper they aren't going to fit.

at my work we only stock CTS fittings, but can order IPS fittings every once in a while some one comes in looking for IPS and we have to turn them away or order it for them.


-=Jason=-

Flomaster said:

well by rights no you shouldn't HAVE to, but it might work.

another thing to consider is cooper tube sizing Vs. Iron Pipe Size.

Copper Tube size is smaller OD than Iron Pipe size. if your fittings are meant for Iron pipe not copper they aren't going to fit.

at my work we only stock CTS fittings, but can order IPS fittings every once in a while some one comes in looking for IPS and we have to turn them away or order it for them.


-=Jason=-

Click to expand...

Wouldn't a brass compression fitting be made for copper?

wildwest450 said:

1/2" is to small and 5/8" is to big. Although I haven't tried sandwiching 30 orings on there, should I have to?

Click to expand...

No.

However, this is exactly what I did and it doesn't leak. It even moves (turns) and still doesn't leak. In case this leak doesn't take you straight to it, go to the bottom of the page and click on page 3 of his how to.

http://theelectricbrewery.com/wort-chiller?page=3

Yambor44 said:

No.

However, this is exactly what I did and it doesn't leak. It even moves (turns) and still doesn't leak. In case this leak doesn't take you straight to it, go to the bottom of the page and click on page 3 of his how to.

http://theelectricbrewery.com/wort-chiller?page=3

Click to expand...

I guess I have no choice. Off to buy 100 o-rings so i can use 6 of them.

Oh how I miss my aluminum pot and cooler setup.

WW, if you keg, it's the same orings that fit on the keg posts. If not, I have plenty, if you would like PM me your mailing address and I can send you some.

The compression fittings were a little spendy for me, but once I saw how Kal set it up (and Bobby suggested), I wanted something tried and true so I sprung for it.

wildwest450 said:

I guess I have no choice. Off to buy 100 o-rings so i can use 6 of them.

Oh how I miss my aluminum pot and cooler setup.

Click to expand...

I hear ya on that one! My friend Scott gives me hell every brew day when I am screwing with the burner to keep temp up in my $300+ Blichmann Mash tun while he just lets his sit for an hour in a $40 cooler and it only loses maybe 2 degrees!