Probable infection... :(

Seems to have been a rough fall here for brewing.

Brewed up a coopers real ale over a month ago, and wound up having to do it with a modified "no chill" method because my ice water had melted. So, I put my bucket in the kegger for about 24 hours, and then pitched the yeast.

I'm pretty sure my sanitation was OK, and I remember tasting this wort and opening the bucket over a week after fermentation. All seemed quite well then.

Just opened up today to transfer to corny for chill and carb, and found what appears to be my first infection Based on research, this is some fairly common infection. When pulling off the lid, I didn't much like the smell, and even though this picture doesn't show it, there were 2-3 big nasty looking bubbles on top of this white film.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but the film was quite thin. When I checked back on my syphon, it appeared to be nearly gone, and the bucket seemed to smell better. So, I took a second shot after I pulled my syphon. In the top of the keg, I could see what appeared to maybe be some white residue floating around in there, but it was hard to tell.

I supposed I should just chill, carb, and taste this again, but wanted to see how bad you guys think this may be given the circumstances. I'm pretty sure this infection started well after the first week in the primary.

are you gonna drink it? how's it taste?

I do want to drink it. I just didn't feel like tasting it right after seeing the film on top. I think I'll chill it, and maybe taste this weekend .. or force carb and then taste?

Infections manifest themselves on top, but they go all through the beer/wort. Looking closely at the bucket as the level goes down, you'll notice the film on top leaching towards the sides of the fermenter & sticking as the level goes down. I saw this more easily in my 6G better bottle.

unionrdr said:

Infections manifest themselves on top, but they go all through the beer/wort. Looking closely at the bucket as the level goes down, you'll notice the film on top leaching towards the sides of the fermenter & sticking as the level goes down. I saw this more easily in my 6G better bottle.

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Well , that may have been why it seemed to "clear" as it went down.

I'm taste testing it from a shot glass right now. The beer seems to have the right color and clarity. However, the taste seems possibly dulled from where is should be. Like watered down... Since I read about the vinegar taste, I think there may be a hint of that in there as well, but if there is, it's not very pronounced.

As far as the smell, I'm not really sure. I have a difficult time discerning smells, especially on something like warm beer. Had my wife smell it from this glass, and she said it smelled like beer. This was sort of a relief, because it seemed to smell like something a lot worse last night when I cracked the top of the bucket.

I think I'm just going to have to try to carb it up. I'm not sure how full my CO2 tank is anyway, so I'll probably be getting a recharge soon.

If this is the "aceto" , have I likely lost a bunch of alcohol from the infection converting it to vinegar?

Acetobacter can come from fruit flies, but I imagine you'd need a lot of'em getting in there to infect it. That's likely from something else. Besides green beer taste, & the fact that it's flat. prime & bottle it. I saved one that was worse than that once.

If it was acetobacter you would have no doubt about the vinegar. If it's not too strong yet, then I doubt they've chewed through the alcohols just yet. Go get yourself some kombucha. After a week that stuff has a very strong vinegar smell. I would imagine after a week or two in the beer, it would be nearly as strong. As you've already kegged it, you might as well see how it tastes. I mean people pay to get those probiotics, and you got em for free!

infected.

Infected beers might taste good, especially if you chill them before the infection has its way with your beer. However, like sausage and similar things, infected beers can be hard to stomach once you've seen it made. Good luck there.

joshesmusica said:

If it was acetobacter you would have no doubt about the vinegar. If it's not too strong yet, then I doubt they've chewed through the alcohols just yet. Go get yourself some kombucha. After a week that stuff has a very strong vinegar smell. I would imagine after a week or two in the beer, it would be nearly as strong. As you've already kegged it, you might as well see how it tastes. I mean people pay to get those probiotics, and you got em for free!

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Thanks. I seem to be reading that some infection can basically "dull" the taste of the beer. At this point , that's what I'm afraid of, even though I fear no beer.

Gonna taste another sample, do a rolling force carb, and let it sit til tomorrow or so...

Well, after taste testing it flat, and colder, it really seems to have that chemical/astringent flavor coming through.

With this same bucket, or my carboy (can't remember which), I had a batch of beer ruined last year with that chemical/astringent flavor. Left it sit in the fridge for over 8 months and under carb, and even though it looked great and smelled OK, the chemical taste only remained the same or slightly worse.

I wonder if I could have had this same infection before, and got it back again? Only thing is , I do not remember ever seeing a pellicle on top of any of my beers ever, until now. I always look at the surface and smell before racking, and was once alarmed by kreusen ... but this pellicle was definitely something new and kind of gross.

The beer seemed to turn out OK, and I'm still drinking on it.

I am puzzled about what seems to be the aging taking place, and how it seems to be getting better with time, instead of worse as I expected with the infection.

Had a friend over on Halloween, and he drank a pint, and then I thought it would be funny to tell him it was "infected" (as we were watching the Walking Dead. I did this after asking for an honest opinion on the taste. He said it tasted good, and surprisingly even after it had warmed a bit.

In any case, the only off flavor I notice is bitterness/skunk. The beer also seems to have too much head, and the head tastes VERY bitter/skunky. However, the head volume has been reducing over time, and the color/clarity is near perfect. On the plus side, there isn't much aftertaste, and the beer is still drinkable - especially with food.

So, I'm not sure on what infection this was , or if this is typical in some cases.

Based on what I read, I decided to buy a cheap racking cane and tubing to move my next batch from carboy to keg. This batch does not appear to have an infection, although I'm still confused on the dangers of using the same auto-syphon I used with the infected beer, to transfer non-infected beer from carboy to keg.

The other question I had is what does it mean when people say "use it for sours" when talking about the bucket and syphon I used for the infected beer? Is it OK for a sour to get an infection, or is it less likely to transfer to a sour? Thanks for any ideas!

sour beers are purposefully infected. You are just selecting what organisms infect it. You shouldnt use anything plastic that touched that beer again with any future clean beers

A sour IS an infection. The bugs used in souring will give you a much more pronounced version of that pellicle. Also, sours are often times an experiment of sorts, and a mixture of other bacteria's can be a good thing for the beer, hence dedicated sour equipment. If the infection is from something unfavorable, then maybe not so much.

Thanks. Is there some style of sour I might want to try , given the previous infection?

Also, am I mistaking the bitterness/skunk off flavor in this beer for something else? I've read skunk isn't generally caused by infection, but it could just be my taste buds being off.

Could just be a difference in description of the taste.

Most sours take months to develop, and can be an acquired taste, so if you aren't well versed in sours, maybe try some before committing to making one yourself. For something quicker, I would try a saison in there, as souring bacteria are often used in some styles of saisons these days.

What about my gas and beverage connections, faucet, and hose in my kegerator? I only have two taps, so I'm hoping I don't have to completely replace the line and fittings just to do something like charge another keg filled with sanitizer.

As I understand it, the infection only takes hold with oxygen, so wouldn't my cornies be relatively "immune" once full and carbed?

christyle said:

Could just be a difference in description of the taste.

Most sours take months to develop, and can be an acquired taste, so if you aren't well versed in sours, maybe try some before committing to making one yourself. For something quicker, I would try a saison in there, as souring bacteria are often used in some styles of saisons these days.

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thanks! could you point me in the direction of a kit or partial mash recipe for a good saison? i'm not yet setup for all grain...

The already fermented beer has less of a risk from being infected due to the less-than-desireable conditions you're asking it to grow in, so It shouldn't be very well established, and hopefully easy to wipe out with a good oxy/PBW and star san rinse cycle, buuuuut I've never had to do that.....so....REPLACE EVERYTHING! Really, I'm not sure. I'll probably be lazy if i put a sour on tap and do next to nothing.

I have only brewed one saison so far, as they aren't my fav style. Here are a couple from the "Top 100 Recipes" articles:

BBD Saison Furtif

How Rye I am: Rye Saison

The first has a partial mash recipe, the other is all grain, but im sure some have asked somewhere in there for an extract version.

This saison kit from Northern Brewer is pretty good & sessionable. It comes as either E/SG or AG. http://www.northernbrewer.com/petite-saison-d-ete-extract-kit