Tinpanharry
Well-Known Member
Noob here. I don't recall hearing when to add 5.2ph stabilizer so I sprinkeled the powder to the mash and stirred it in. Did I screw up? Any enlightenment is appreciated.
Thanks!
TPH
Thanks!
TPH
When do I add 5.2ph stabilizer?
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Northjerzyg
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I add at the begining of the mash. Usually pour the strike water, add stabilizer, then mash in. That is if I don't forget about it. Then it goes in after the grain.
lamarguy
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The correct answer is 'never'. Search for related threads (or at the bottom of this page).
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Adding grains will alter the pH level of the strike water. It should be added after the grains are in the MLT.
Did you test the pH level prior to adding the 5.2? Sometimes it can do more harm than good...
Did you test the pH level prior to adding the 5.2? Sometimes it can do more harm than good...
Spartan1979
Well-Known Member
I've stopped using it, but when I was, I was throwing it into the bucket with my crushed grains. So it was being added as I was mashing in.
That's my opinion too.
But if you feel you absolutely must have saltier beer, then add it to the mash.
OP
OP
Tinpanharry
Well-Known Member
Thanks all!
TPH
TPH
Grinder12000
Well-Known Member
Weird. I always use it and a judge has never mentioned it as a problem? People taste what they want to taste.
It does leave an off flavor, and it doesn't correct pH anyway. In short, it doesn't do what it proposes to do. If you use it, and your beer is good, that's great. But it isn't because of the 5.2 stabilizer.
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It works for me. It doesn't for others...
Experiment for yourself, with your system, and your water, and find what works for you.
Experiment for yourself, with your system, and your water, and find what works for you.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Like they say, God works in mysterious ways. So does 5.2 buffer. 
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Like they say, God works in mysterious ways. So does 5.2 buffer.
So if it doesn't work for you, it must automatically not work for anyone?
My data shows otherwise, for my grist and my water...
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Kai and I both conducted separate titration experiments using 5.2 buffer a couple of years ago. We both concluded it has no appreciable effect on the mash pH at the recommended dosage and the dosage required to have an effect lends a salty taste.
Basically, it's worthless in brewing.
Oh, so if it works for you, it must automatically work for everyone. Ha, calm down.
I'd love to see your data.
It doesn't work for me either, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't work at all. There may be some water profiles for which it works quite well.
-a.
-a.
Water is not the same for everyrone. There cannot be a single magic bullet that will work for everyone as they claim it works.
I would not use it unless my water profile worked well with it. How can you know that unless you get a report and study up on water chemistry and pH?
And if you do that, then you may as well just adjust your water manually since you will have figured out how to do it by then.
You might find out you have the perfect water for using it.
I would not use it unless my water profile worked well with it. How can you know that unless you get a report and study up on water chemistry and pH?
And if you do that, then you may as well just adjust your water manually since you will have figured out how to do it by then.
You might find out you have the perfect water for using it.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
That's the problem. With 5.2 buffer, I've discovered three camps (on this forum and in my local club):
- Experienced brewers who either have good water and/or already adjust their water but blindly believe the 5.2 buffer is making it all magically work.
- Folks that saw it on a website or catalog and have no reason to doubt it.
- Folks that know it doesn't work or tried it and didn't observe any difference in beer quality.
A lot of brewers either own a pH meter (or have access to one). They can (and should) conduct their own experiment. Unfortunately, if one "experienced" brewer claims it works (for whatever reason), new folks tend to follow.
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Hello Mr. Guy,
Here's a thread I started a couple years ago. There is some good discussion in it. I seem to be fortunate in that it works for me. As with most (all?) things brewing related, YMMV.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/5-2-ph-stabilizer-post-your-results-169092/
I am admittedly naive when it comes to brewing water chemistry, something i hope to tackle more this year...
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Sir AZ, please re-read remilard's question:
and aj's critique:
It's great that you feel 5.2 buffer works. I'm not trying to turn this into a debate thread.
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Sir AZ, please re-read remilard's question:
and aj's critique:
It's great that you feel 5.2 buffer works. I'm not trying to turn this into a debate thread.
It was a pale ale, and I'll have to dig out notes of the same recipe without 5.2, as of course I did that. The pH was higher without 5.2...
Only a dolt would make a claim without using the same grist/water and no 5.2. At least give me a little credit?
And again, any blanket statements in homebrewing really shouldn't be made. Well, except for making a starter with liquid yeast.
Finally, not looking for a debate either, just wanted to mention that i have had good results with the product, while acknowledging others have not.
I've used it, and for my water, I give it a meh. I have loads of carbonate in my water.
Now, I am a bit of a waste not, want not kinda guy, so I do still use a little of it - in my sparge water. I treat my water to remove carbonates but then have to bring the pH down before using it. Since I have some left, I toss a little bit of 5.2 in the sparge water and then use phosphoric acid to dial in my target pH. Once I've used it up, I won't buy anymore. I much prefer using phosphoric acid (which I use to adjust mash pH). Of course this does require the use of a pH meter.
Now, I am a bit of a waste not, want not kinda guy, so I do still use a little of it - in my sparge water. I treat my water to remove carbonates but then have to bring the pH down before using it. Since I have some left, I toss a little bit of 5.2 in the sparge water and then use phosphoric acid to dial in my target pH. Once I've used it up, I won't buy anymore. I much prefer using phosphoric acid (which I use to adjust mash pH). Of course this does require the use of a pH meter.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
I use a very similar process, except Austin city water is already lime and CO2 processed, reducing the RA from ~100 to ~40.
1/4 tsp of 85% phosphoric acid per 5 gallons reliably reduces the sparge pH to 6 - 6.2.
But yes, a pH meter is mandatory for the initial sparge water adjustment and ongoing mash adjustments. I still take a pH reading after mash-in but it's in the optimal 5.4 - 5.6 range 90% of the time.
A notable exception is when I recently brewed 12 gallons of 1.095 imperial stout (10% 120L crystal = high acidity). I really wish calcium carbonate would readily dissolve in the strike water prior to mash-in. But, it needs acidity to properly dissolve.
For the original poster, some of these answers could be confusing. So here is my feeble attempt to simplify.
Facts:
1. People have different water. Some hard, some soft.
2. In order for mash to be most effective, it needs to progress down to the right pH (5.2-5.4 or so).
3. Water mineral content and grain color/type affect pH during the mash. It can also affect the maltiness/bitterness perception for a given addition of bittering hops.
4. 5.2 is some kind of buffer to keep pH in the proper range during a mash.
5. Who knows what water 5.2 works best with (not distilled, for sure).
6. There is a lot more to it than this and I've oversimplified. THE BREW SCIENCE FORUM IS WHERE YOU NEED TO GO TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS.
Seriously, there is a great spreadsheet in the brew science forum for adjusting your water, as well as how to find out what you have in your water. Also, there are some simple recommendations for adjusting your water with a few simple, inexpensive additives. Easy to do even if you are not a chemist (I'm not). Your beer will get better.
Rich
Facts:
1. People have different water. Some hard, some soft.
2. In order for mash to be most effective, it needs to progress down to the right pH (5.2-5.4 or so).
3. Water mineral content and grain color/type affect pH during the mash. It can also affect the maltiness/bitterness perception for a given addition of bittering hops.
4. 5.2 is some kind of buffer to keep pH in the proper range during a mash.
5. Who knows what water 5.2 works best with (not distilled, for sure).
6. There is a lot more to it than this and I've oversimplified. THE BREW SCIENCE FORUM IS WHERE YOU NEED TO GO TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS.
Seriously, there is a great spreadsheet in the brew science forum for adjusting your water, as well as how to find out what you have in your water. Also, there are some simple recommendations for adjusting your water with a few simple, inexpensive additives. Easy to do even if you are not a chemist (I'm not). Your beer will get better.
Rich
I use a very similar process, except Austin city water is already lime and CO2 processed, reducing the RA from ~100 to ~40.
1/4 tsp of 85% phosphoric acid per 5 gallons reliably reduces the sparge pH to 6 - 6.2.
But yes, a pH meter is mandatory for the initial sparge water adjustment and ongoing mash adjustments. I still take a pH reading after mash-in but it's in the optimal 5.4 - 5.6 range 90% of the time.
A notable exception is when I recently brewed 12 gallons of 1.095 imperial stout (10% 120L crystal = high acidity). I really wish calcium carbonate would readily dissolve in the strike water prior to mash-in. But, it needs acidity to properly dissolve.
Pickling lime dissolves well. I had to order mine on the interwebs, though.
I've brewed with and without 5.2 and turned out great beers. Of course I think great water from my municipal source helps loads. But, since you have it, use it. I pitch a Tbls. in the strike water. I have also treated the sparge water, but that was for a 10 gal batch and I think we sparged with 8 gallons. Beer turned out fantastic, by the way. I'm only one person, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Do your own research.
builderguy
Well-Known Member
+1
Get a good water chemistry spreadsheet (like Bru'n Water) and add the specific salts you need to hit your goals depending on style and grainbill. You'll need to contact your city's water department for the initial info.
If your water chemistry software doesn't take grainbill into consideration, or doesn't tell you you're going to high on "saltiness" like Baking Soda then use a different one.
