How Do You Make Your Own Chestnut Chips?

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone knows how to make Chestnut chips appropriate for brewing. Google is failing me on this one.

My assumption would be to chop them up into small pieces (maybe with a food processor) and then press the oil out of the nuts with a nut oil expeller. And then roast slightly for a pale and more for darker beers.

Is there more to it? I'm in New Zealand and am not finding any sources for them here, but I do have a chestnut tree which usually yields a few bags full. Figured I'd give it a go.

Short of that, does anyone know of a source that currently has them in stock in the US? I have a reshipping service so I could probably have them sent if needed. The only ones I'm finding are out of stock.

Last question: Is there a difference between chestnut chips for beer and regular chestnut chips?

Thanks.

Sorry, I've never even heard of chestnut chips. However, I'm intrigued...

Well, I'll be...

Check this...

http://www.centerforagroforestry.org/pubs/chestnut/v9n1/v9n1.pdf

ianw58 said:

Sorry, I've never even heard of chestnut chips. However, I'm intrigued...

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Chestnuts are said to be the closest alternative to barley, in terms of taste. The require amylase to convert the starches though. I see recipes all over the place calling for chestnut chips but can't seem to find them and so I thought I'd try and make some. Just not quite sure how.

ianw58 said:

Well, I'll be...

Check this...

http://www.centerforagroforestry.org/pubs/chestnut/v9n1/v9n1.pdf

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Thanks. The company that article is talking about is the main source that comes up, however they are out of stock.

They explain the process a little bit in that article but something tells me there is a tad more too it. Maybe I'm wrong. My assumption was that the oil would be an issue if not pressed out. Maybe I'll just need to try it and see what happens.

They are most certainly NOT the closest in flavor to barley. They have a nice taste but it's definitely a "chestnut" taste. Malted millet is much, much closer to barley. Bordering on indistinguishable with the right combo of pale, crystal, and vienna malts together. I speak from ample experience with both.

Unfortunately, I can't answer your question about making chestnut chips. Someone needs to tell more chestnut growers that they're sitting on a gold mine, the only two sources I know that sell to brewers have been sold out for months due to sky-rocketing demand from both homebrewers and gluten-free commercial breweries like Harvester and Glutenberg that use chestnuts in many of their beers.

igliashon said:

They are most certainly NOT the closest in flavor to barley. They have a nice taste but it's definitely a "chestnut" taste. Malted millet is much, much closer to barley. Bordering on indistinguishable with the right combo of pale, crystal, and vienna malts together. I speak from ample experience with both.

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Thanks for the info. Really good to know. I've only had a few gluten free beers and they were horrible, but I feel like I need to get away from gluten so I've been researching recipes and am hoping I can make some nice GF beers on par with regular ones. Especially darker beers. I hadn't heard much about millet.

What can you tell me about finding the right kind of millet and malting it? Or is it sold already malted? Reading a bit about it I got the impression that the stuff sold in the store is already processed quite a bit. How would I go about making a gluten free millet beer?

Ans someone who has a lot of experience with GF beers, any recipes you'd recommend?

If you don't have a bad reaction to gluten and just want to reduce the amount of gluten, then you should consider one of the methods of reducing gluten from barley based brew. A lot cheaper then shipping malt over seas and a lot easier then malting your own. I don't have that choice, but if I did I would just drink regular beer and eat gluten free in the rest of my diet.

If you want a good tutorial on malting, search on Andrew Lavery and malting.

If you want to brew gluten free this is the best forum IMO. There is a specific category for gluten free recipes.

Dang, did not notice you are in New Zealand. I'm curious what GF beers you've been able to find in your hemisphere...I imagine they may be a bit different than what we've got going here in the 'States.

I'll second glutarded-chris's recommendation of Andrew Lavery's writings. They've been shared here on the forum and are about as comprehensive as you could like (though they are NOT the only way to go about making GF beer from alternative malts). He's based in Australia IIRC, so you may even be able to contact him for some guidance. I'd be hesitant to recommend anything else to you since I really have no idea where you could procure ingredients or what they would be like. Sadly there aren't too many of us in this forum that hail from your neck of the woods.

igliashon said:

Dang, did not notice you are in New Zealand. I'm curious what GF beers you've been able to find in your hemisphere...I imagine they may be a bit different than what we've got going here in the 'States.

I'll second glutarded-chris's recommendation of Andrew Lavery's writings. They've been shared here on the forum and are about as comprehensive as you could like (though they are NOT the only way to go about making GF beer from alternative malts). He's based in Australia IIRC, so you may even be able to contact him for some guidance. I'd be hesitant to recommend anything else to you since I really have no idea where you could procure ingredients or what they would be like. Sadly there aren't too many of us in this forum that hail from your neck of the woods.

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Thanks glutarded-chris and igliashon. I'll look into Andrew Lavery's writings.

I haven't been diagnosed as having any kind of gluten intolerance but I think I have one. I've been mostly low carb for the last 7 or 8 years now and find that whenever I stick to it I lose a ton of weight and feel great. But over the last year I've become obsessed with brewing and that introduced a lot more regular gluten then I've had in my system and along that time line I've been experiencing everything from anxiety to joint pain to weight gain. My hunch is that it's from the gluten. A recent beer trip full of two weeks of tastings left me feeling particularly bad (no hangover jokes please And so I thought I'd explore gluten free beers as I really don't want to stop brewing.

The only gluten free commercial beer I can find around here is Scott's: http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/scotts-gluten-free-pale-ale/110389/

And no offense to the good people involved with that company but man, I really find it hard to drink.

We have a pretty decent home brew shop in Auckland which ships things to me. It's ore limited than stuff in the states (I'm from LA), but not bad at all.

Any recipes you guys would recommend that taste just as good as regular beers? Can I just go and buy millet in the stores and malt that or is that already processed?

If you feel your health is better without gluten then keep it out completely. My experience is that with moderate knowledge and experience you can brew better beer then you can buy, and I believe that is true in North America where we may have the best selection. Commercial brewers are beginning to realize that there is an untapped market and we will pay good money for beer. For now anyway GF home brewing is pretty satisfying.

It looks like you can get the basics. Did a quick search and found the following:
http://www.brewshop.co.nz/malt-extract?p=2
Sorghum liquid malt extract (Briessweet)
Dry yeast such as Safale us-05, Nottingham etc.
Maltodextrin (have to make sure it is GF)

Belgian candy syrup - might be able to get from these guys:
http://www.brewerscoop.co.nz/beerProds.php?id=BEIN&menu=BEIN

As far as grain goes, my view is that steeped millet crystal gives the most benefit if you are looking to minimize the amount of grain you purchase or malt yourself. Igliashon and a few others have a lot more experience with a wider variety of grains and unmalted grain, so I would rely on their advise if you cannot get your hands on malted millet or buckwheat.

Some basic recipes that I posted:
www.homebrewtalk.com/f240/phat-tire-gluten-free-ale-443549/
www.homebrewtalk.com/f240/steep-yourself-gluten-free-ale-442319/

There are others that add fruit, sweet potato, coffee, chocolate etc. but I have not tried those so I cannot advise. I would start simple and go from there.

glutarded-chris said:

If you feel your health is better without gluten then keep it out completely. My experience is that with moderate knowledge and experience you can brew better beer then you can buy, and I believe that is true in North America where we may have the best selection. Commercial brewers are beginning to realize that there is an untapped market and we will pay good money for beer. For now anyway GF home brewing is pretty satisfying.

It looks like you can get the basics. Did a quick search and found the following:
http://www.brewshop.co.nz/malt-extract?p=2
Sorghum liquid malt extract (Briessweet)
Dry yeast such as Safale us-05, Nottingham etc.
Maltodextrin (have to make sure it is GF)

Belgian candy syrup - might be able to get from these guys:
http://www.brewerscoop.co.nz/beerProds.php?id=BEIN&menu=BEIN

As far as grain goes, my view is that steeped millet crystal gives the most benefit if you are looking to minimize the amount of grain you purchase or malt yourself. Igliashon and a few others have a lot more experience with a wider variety of grains and unmalted grain, so I would rely on their advise if you cannot get your hands on malted millet or buckwheat.

Some basic recipes that I posted:
www.homebrewtalk.com/f240/phat-tire-gluten-free-ale-443549/
www.homebrewtalk.com/f240/steep-yourself-gluten-free-ale-442319/

There are others that add fruit, sweet potato, coffee, chocolate etc. but I have not tried those so I cannot advise. I would start simple and go from there.

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Thanks for taking the time to look all that up. Finding Candy syrup, Sorghum syrup, and rice syrup is no problem, but my only experience with a sorghum based beer was so bad I've been sort of turned off of the idea. I'm really interested in Millet and Chestnuts though. I just can't find much info on Millet. I can find info on malting it, and recipes that include it, but I also read that the store bought stuff was fairly processed. So I'm not sure what to get if I do want to give malting my own a try.

Thanks again.

It is a personal preference but I second Igliashon's comments about chestnuts. I don't think they taste like beer. If you like chestnuts, then you will like it. The batch I brewed tasted very close to a commercial brewer's chestnut beer. I hated it and my wife liked it ... personal preference.

The sorghum LME brings a lot to the table in the way of FAN etc. I would not assume that since you did not like the commercial brews containing sorghum that you should avoid it completely! Yes, if you just use sorghum LME, hops, yeast and water it will be citrusy, thin and boring. But if you offset and augment you can beat the commercial brews hands down.

I agree that millet malts will take it to a higher level but if you don't have easy access to millet malts or don't want to take the trouble to malt yourself, then you get to something you like with an extract brew.

Give it a go! Whatever you choose will be good if not great and you can improve from there.

Thanks all. I have been reading everything I can for the last few days and am only now finding all the info on Clarity-Firm and the whole reduced gluten debate. But most of the info I have found is a few years old. What is the current consensus on that? I'm almost certain I don't have celiac disease. I just don't feel so awesome after consuming a lot of gluten> i feel kind of swollen and crappy for a few days. I assume I have some sort of sensitivity. If that's the case is Clarity Firm a good option? What is the current feeling about how effective that has been for removing any impactful percentage of gluten? I found a NZ brew shop that has it and ships and I'm excited about the option. Anyone have any experience?

You would be best suited to find some local clarity-firm-treated beers and try them first. Look for any "gluten-free" beer made with barley. Or "<20 ppm gluten" or whatever.

It is literally impossible to make specific recommendations to individuals because what is known as "gluten sensitivity" is actually a sensitivity to any number of peptide sequences, some of which are sufficiently degraded by clarity-ferm and some of which are apparently not. No tests currently exist that can determine which peptide sequences in specific will trigger a reaction in a given individual and there is no comprehensive understanding of how clarity-ferm acts on all peptide sequences that may trigger reactions among those who suffer from gluten-intolerance. So it's basically a roll of the dice.

In any case, any beer not brewed with wheat, i.e. only barley, rye, corn, rice, etc., is going to be generally low in gluten, as the malting process for barley naturally degrades much of the hordein naturally present. If it's only "massive amounts of gluten" that cause you problems, then barley beers are probably not a major concern for you.

Just walked past a big ole pile of chestnuts in the grocery store last weekend. I don't know what shipping would be if they still have them.

igliashon said:

You would be best suited to find some local clarity-firm-treated beers and try them first. Look for any "gluten-free" beer made with barley. Or "<20 ppm gluten" or whatever.

It is literally impossible to make specific recommendations to individuals because what is known as "gluten sensitivity" is actually a sensitivity to any number of peptide sequences, some of which are sufficiently degraded by clarity-ferm and some of which are apparently not. No tests currently exist that can determine which peptide sequences in specific will trigger a reaction in a given individual and there is no comprehensive understanding of how clarity-ferm acts on all peptide sequences that may trigger reactions among those who suffer from gluten-intolerance. So it's basically a roll of the dice.

In any case, any beer not brewed with wheat, i.e. only barley, rye, corn, rice, etc., is going to be generally low in gluten, as the malting process for barley naturally degrades much of the hordein naturally present. If it's only "massive amounts of gluten" that cause you problems, then barley beers are probably not a major concern for you.

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Thanks for the info. It's helpful. I've been learning a lot over the last few days. I doubt I'll be able to get any of those low gluten barley beers where I am so I think I'll just give the clarity-firm a try and see what happens. At the very least it sounds like it will be a step in the right direction. I also found a source for raw millet. Going to give malting it a try and see what I can come up with on that front as well.

Thanks for all the help everyone. Such a great forum.

I wanted to add to this that sorghum has a place in GF brewing and is a great place to start. Just remember that what you've had commercially was akin to coors light. Do some research through proven recipes on here and you can make something great. If I was the first oil painter, Rembrandt might have decided to make shoes, thinking it made for terrible art.

Hi,

I brew gluten free in NZ. Millet is really go for flavor and aroma, however, trying to find some that hasn't been treated is a hole new can of worms. I have found some from Ravensdown think it was 25kgs for around $250 NZD but it came in a red protective coating which made it usless. Buckwheat you can malt and buy from any Binninn. Sorghum Malt was available from Brewers coop which is good to add FAN to any brew. Also if you are looking for chestnut chips i know a person in NZ that produces and sells if you are interested just send me a message.

lxmuir said:

Hi,

I brew gluten free in NZ. Millet is really go for flavor and aroma, however, trying to find some that hasn't been treated is a hole new can of worms. I have found some from Ravensdown think it was 25kgs for around $250 NZD but it came in a red protective coating which made it usless. Buckwheat you can malt and buy from any Binninn. Sorghum Malt was available from Brewers coop which is good to add FAN to any brew. Also if you are looking for chestnut chips i know a person in NZ that produces and sells if you are interested just send me a message.

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Thanks for the info. I found some millet an Bin Inn. they said it was raw, but who knows. Now I need to attempt to malt it. I have a healthy harvest of Chestnuts that we just pulled in from our chest nut tree, but I have no idea how to process them into what is suitable for brewing. I'm assuming I would dehydrate and roast them? No idea.

But sure, I'd be happy to get in touch with your friend who sells them commercially. At the very least for the future. Cheers.

If you plan to use sorghum syrup (or better yet rice syrup)as a base and are only looking for a kg or 2 of malted millet to add flavor and body to your brew... you can try "psudo malting" some millet or buckwheat. This is my standard practice. Cook grain in a rice cooker, cool to warm room temp, add a solution containing amylase and protease, hold at warm room temp for 3 to 5 hours, then refrigerate overnight. In the morning I add gf rolled oats (dry) and some white sugar...then I cook the whole mess in the oven at 350 untill it is the color of burnt toast (stiring ocasionally) I call this "brewers granola" and I use it in every batch as part of a partial mash. You just need amylase and protease, the rest you can get at the grocery store. I add 1 to 2 kg of this "granola" along with some amylase to a mini mash for each batch.

I have used millet, gf oats, sorghum, and buckwheat, with varying amounts of sugar added. I made two batches today, one millet and oat that is munich-ish, and one millet and buckwheat that is close to crystal malt.

Thanks Legume, that's very interesting. I might give it a try. Not sure how easy it will be for me to find amylase and protease here in New Zealand but I'll give it a go. Thanks.

You can buy Amylase from http://www.brewerscoop.co.nz/ as for protease youll have to email them and ask, they have alot of stock so i wouldnt be suprised if they did. Contact David at NZ chestnut Council and ask about the chestnut chips. all you have to do is roast them to your desired level. A lot easier then shelling, dehydrating and grinding them your self i tell you now. Have you tryed to malt the millet you got from Binnin? Id be rather interested in it worked. If it doesn't keep the grain and just use it for steeping purposes (for colour and flavour)

Awesome. Thanks for all that info. What is the protease actually for? I know Amylase, but not protease.

I haven't tried malting it yet. Gping on a trip for a few months but will as soon as I return and will let you know.

The protease is to break up proteins...it is not strictly nessassarry...if you cant find it...skip it (you do need amylase though)The idea is to create some free amino acids to undergo maillard reactions during toasting...I am not convinced that the protease makes a big diffrence, but I have reciently started using it.

Does anyone know where to source chestnut chips in Canada? I'm looking to brew a GF beer with it. All my favourite beers use it in their brews and is unreal. Thanks for the help