Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics)
- Thread starter DeathBrewer
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Deathbrewer should have affiliate links to various sites so we can buy the Deathbrewer equipment kit without having to think.
Click here to buy the same stuff DB uses in this post.
How many hundreds of equipment kits would be sold???
Plus he can link some of his recipes like the famous dunkel?
Come on!
Click here to buy the same stuff DB uses in this post.
How many hundreds of equipment kits would be sold???
Plus he can link some of his recipes like the famous dunkel?
Come on!
SaltyD
New Member
Im looking forward to doing this for my first brew. I just need to decide which recipies to use! And where to get them!
OP
OP
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
After pouring the wort from your mash pot to your sparge pot, would there be any adverse affects from topping off to 4 gallons?
SaltyD
New Member
what would you like to make?
Im not sure yet, but I think im going to do some more reading on this forum before I dive in and decide!
OP
OP
Nope, as long as your pot can hold it and your burner can boil it, you're fine. Remember that the extract will add volume when you add it.
OP
OP
Good plan. Let me know if you want any recipes.
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I'm really looking forward to trying this out tomorrow. I'm excited about the possibilities for some good beers.
iamdooser
Member
I just tried this method on this recipe:
http://hopville.com/recipe/109638/home-brew/002---better-be-chocolate-malts
My gravity, and therefore efficiency, was a bit lower than I'd hoped but it seemed to work well. Thanks for posting the instructions and photos!
http://hopville.com/recipe/109638/home-brew/002---better-be-chocolate-malts
My gravity, and therefore efficiency, was a bit lower than I'd hoped but it seemed to work well. Thanks for posting the instructions and photos!
OkayDB, can you help me on this one?
The recipe I'm using calls for this:
12oz British Chocolate malt
12oz US 60L Crystal
4oz US Black Malt
1oz roasted barley
1.25 lbs US 2 row pale malt
12oz maltodextrin
4lbs Pale LME
2.25lbs Extra light DME
3/4oz Northern brewer
3/4oz Cascade
Wyeast 1056 American or Wyest 1332 northwest
I'd like to do more mash and less extract.
How would you change it for that purpose?
I'm a noob with three full extracts under my belt is all. 1 good, 1 bad, and 1 okay.
The recipe I'm using calls for this:
12oz British Chocolate malt
12oz US 60L Crystal
4oz US Black Malt
1oz roasted barley
1.25 lbs US 2 row pale malt
12oz maltodextrin
4lbs Pale LME
2.25lbs Extra light DME
3/4oz Northern brewer
3/4oz Cascade
Wyeast 1056 American or Wyest 1332 northwest
I'd like to do more mash and less extract.
How would you change it for that purpose?
I'm a noob with three full extracts under my belt is all. 1 good, 1 bad, and 1 okay.
OP
OP
Do you have promash? The best way to do it is to simply replace your extract with 2-row to match your OG until you reach your desired quantity for mashing.
By scratch you could do it, too. Roughly: 1 lbs grain = 0.75 lb = 0.6 lbs DME
So if you add 5.5 lbs of 2-row you could replace all of your LME. That may be too much, tho, if you don't want to mash more than ~6 lbs.
How about this:
4 lbs LME = 5.5 lbs grain
2.25 lbs DME = 3.75 lbs grain
+ 1.25 lbs 2-row already in recipe =
Total of 10.5 lbs 2-row if you replaced all of the extract.
You also have to account for your total of ~2.5 lbs specialty grains
So if you only want to use 6 lbs of grains use, 3.5 lbs of 2-row. That will leave you with 7 lbs of 2-row to make up for in extract.
7 * 0.6 (DME) = ~4 lbs DME.
So your recipe would be:
12oz British Chocolate malt
12oz US 60L Crystal
4oz US Black Malt
1oz roasted barley
3.5 lbs US 2 row pale malt
12oz maltodextrin
4.0 lbs Extra light DME
What a mess, eh? Sorry if I made that more confusing. In most recipes, replacing the extract is as simple as replacing the 2-row to match your gravity.
I personally would cut down on the crystal 60 and chocolate malt and completely do away with the maltodextrin.
Let me know if you have any more questions or are thinking of using a different amount of grain.
EDIT: Fixed DME qty
By scratch you could do it, too. Roughly: 1 lbs grain = 0.75 lb = 0.6 lbs DME
So if you add 5.5 lbs of 2-row you could replace all of your LME. That may be too much, tho, if you don't want to mash more than ~6 lbs.
How about this:
4 lbs LME = 5.5 lbs grain
2.25 lbs DME = 3.75 lbs grain
+ 1.25 lbs 2-row already in recipe =
Total of 10.5 lbs 2-row if you replaced all of the extract.
You also have to account for your total of ~2.5 lbs specialty grains
So if you only want to use 6 lbs of grains use, 3.5 lbs of 2-row. That will leave you with 7 lbs of 2-row to make up for in extract.
7 * 0.6 (DME) = ~4 lbs DME.
So your recipe would be:
12oz British Chocolate malt
12oz US 60L Crystal
4oz US Black Malt
1oz roasted barley
3.5 lbs US 2 row pale malt
12oz maltodextrin
4.0 lbs Extra light DME
What a mess, eh?
Sorry if I made that more confusing. In most recipes, replacing the extract is as simple as replacing the 2-row to match your gravity.I personally would cut down on the crystal 60 and chocolate malt and completely do away with the maltodextrin.
Let me know if you have any more questions or are thinking of using a different amount of grain.
EDIT: Fixed DME qty
I'm sorry if I missed this in the threads, do you have an online source for those huge grain bags? I can't seem to find them that large anywhere.. I think my pot is like 17" wide and Deeeeeeeep. Gotta find me some large bags.
Awesome post, I'm going with your methods totally!
Rock on!
Awesome post, I'm going with your methods totally!
Rock on!
I see it now, as a link on your list of ingredients! Sorry about that! Doh!
OP
OP
MoreBeer 24 x 24
NorthernBrewer 18 3/4 x 19
Austin Homebrew 18 x 32
Williams 18 x 22
I'd go with the bigger bags, myself...18 x 32 or 24 x 24.
You can also get large paint strainer bag at home depot, lowes, OSH, etc.
NorthernBrewer 18 3/4 x 19
Austin Homebrew 18 x 32
Williams 18 x 22
I'd go with the bigger bags, myself...18 x 32 or 24 x 24.
You can also get large paint strainer bag at home depot, lowes, OSH, etc.
You rock man. No I don't have promash or any of that stuff yet. This will be just my fourth batch of beer. Thanks for the suggestions. Would you make any other changes to the recipe?
Also, any good recipes for an ESB? I'd like to use some rye, maybe a ryESB?
I
OP
OP
A ryESB could be mighty tasty. I don't have my recipes or software in front of me right now, so I'm a bit rusty, but I could throw something together for you when I get home. Send me a message tonight and I'll try to remember.
OP
OP
lol, I'll try to remember tonight after my brew session. Otherwise hit me up later
P.S. definitely get an upgraded membership. TOTALLY worth it
P.S. definitely get an upgraded membership. TOTALLY worth it
OP
OP
Death, remember that rye ESB you were going to formulate for me?
I need to upgrade so I can send a PM. Next week I will.
Here you go...this is based off of my English IPA, toned down the malt and hops for an ESB and added 2 ounces of chocolate malt for color adjustment and to round out the flavor:
Nice! Thanks DB. I'm brewing the porter tonight and I've got the stuff a Fuller's ESB clone. I'm going to order the RyeESB.
I hope it all goes well tonight. I'm following your pictures, well except for the camo shirt and the long hair that is.
I hope it all goes well tonight. I'm following your pictures, well except for the camo shirt and the long hair that is.
OP
OP
Dude, the camo is crucial
It went well last night. Hit the temperatures just like you said. My OG was lower than I expected but my guess is the top off water had lots to do with it. I don't think I shook it up well enough. I also omitted a pound of DME as they only make three pound bags and I forgot to open the 1lber. I should have measured the OG of just the mash and the sparge water before the boil. Might be a little bitter for the lower aclohol content but I am excited to taste it in a few weeks.
I think it is a great technique which I am desitned to use from now on.
I poured the finished wort by hand with help from a fellow brewer but I think I'd syphon it next time into the fermentor.
Thanks for the thread. This brewing isn't so intimidating after all.
I think it is a great technique which I am desitned to use from now on.
I poured the finished wort by hand with help from a fellow brewer but I think I'd syphon it next time into the fermentor.
Thanks for the thread. This brewing isn't so intimidating after all.
mikeysab
Well-Known Member
This thread has definitely given me the push I needed to get into partial mashes,or even all grain. I just have a few questions. I brewed my first extract with steeping grains today, and I liked brewing this way better than straight extract. Fresher tasting wort, and it seems less like cheating. Question one is this: Is there a difference between steeping and mashing other than the time the grains spend in hot water? It seemed like steeping for a half hour was kind of a waste when I could have left it in their another half hour, then sparged for 10 or 15 minutes and gotten more out of the grains.
Secondly, with the way you used the grain bag, is it possible to do all grain this way? Are you limited to how much grain you mash by the size of the bag, or is it just not feasible to do all grain this way?
Thanks for your help DB. You definitely got me thinking of stepping it up. Seems like slightly more work than doing an extract, but not so much that it's not worth it.
Secondly, with the way you used the grain bag, is it possible to do all grain this way? Are you limited to how much grain you mash by the size of the bag, or is it just not feasible to do all grain this way?
Thanks for your help DB. You definitely got me thinking of stepping it up. Seems like slightly more work than doing an extract, but not so much that it's not worth it.
iamdooser
Member
You could steep and sparge for longer. I usually steep for an hour, and sparge for 30 minutes. I imagine it'd be very difficult to get enough grain inside a bag and inside a pot to do all grain. You must also consider the lower efficiency with extracting from a bag. For the inexpensive cost of a cooler all-mash setup, it makes more sense to go that route than to try to do it all in a grainbag. I think.
iamdooser
Member
I just did another partial mash with this method. Conclusion: grain bag used has a large effect on efficiency. I had to get a new bag before my dog destroyed my original grain sock (no, I'm not kidding). In the old bag, grains were free to move around a large portion of the stockpot, and I observed an efficiency around 60%. This new grain bag was small, no room for the grains to move around. I saw about 40% efficiency. Makes me upset with the brew store that pushed this new grain bag on me. 3$ down the drain as far as I'm concerned. Get a large grain sock even if you're only steeping a pound of grain!
I could be wrong but I think the main difference is the grains you use. You said steeping grains so I assume you mean specialty grains. The specialty grains are steeped and the base grains require mashing. Plus sparging a recipe with nothing but specialty grains might just wash a bunch of tannins into the brew.
DB has an all grain thread too using a bag. The limit is the pot size more than the bag size. There's only so much water and grain you can fit into most pots. If you had a pot that was much larger than the grain bag then I suppose that would start to mess up with the free flowing of the water.
I think the cost for a cooler setup is a bit trickier than it appears. I'm considering it myself but when you start to think about heating all the water and moving all the water around you start to re-think the process. I'm trying to picture making it work and being efficient and safe and it's driving the cost up.
iamdooser
Member
I'll admit I'm a bit skewed due to my experiences last night with grainbagging, and achieving 40% efficiency. It was quite sad.
OP
OP
Gonna answer all of this at once...kinda busy at werk today...
You can do any amount with a grain bag, as long as it's strong enough to hold the grain and you're strong enough to pull it out. People do huge all-grain batches with bags using a no-sparge technique. Google it and you could probably find it.
This method is better than using a mash tun in the following ways:
1 - Faster (this is the fastest method I use)
2 - Easier to clean (less equipment, no scrubbing, no taking apart, etc.)
3 - Use any grain (draining can be difficult with mash tun when using, for example, rye
Mash tuns still work better for holding heat, doing larger batches, not dealing with lifting a bag, cleaner wort (vorlaufing), etc. It's a preference thing and I made this thread to get people into using grain, not to replace other systems.
Method and equipment definitely affects efficiency and other factors. Using a bag that is too fine could be a problem for efficiency just like using a bag that is too coarse could allow grain to pass through.
Mashing and steeping differs in temperature, amount of water, and grains used. Mainly the difference is that steeping grains only gives you color and flavor whereas mashing gives you fermentable sugars. I've discussed this many times...you may wish to search the thread.
Check the all-grain thread in my sig for further details.
You can do any amount with a grain bag, as long as it's strong enough to hold the grain and you're strong enough to pull it out. People do huge all-grain batches with bags using a no-sparge technique. Google it and you could probably find it.
This method is better than using a mash tun in the following ways:
1 - Faster (this is the fastest method I use)
2 - Easier to clean (less equipment, no scrubbing, no taking apart, etc.)
3 - Use any grain (draining can be difficult with mash tun when using, for example, rye
Mash tuns still work better for holding heat, doing larger batches, not dealing with lifting a bag, cleaner wort (vorlaufing), etc. It's a preference thing and I made this thread to get people into using grain, not to replace other systems.
Method and equipment definitely affects efficiency and other factors. Using a bag that is too fine could be a problem for efficiency just like using a bag that is too coarse could allow grain to pass through.
Mashing and steeping differs in temperature, amount of water, and grains used. Mainly the difference is that steeping grains only gives you color and flavor whereas mashing gives you fermentable sugars. I've discussed this many times...you may wish to search the thread.
Check the all-grain thread in my sig for further details.
mikeysab
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply, DB. I actually did read it, but it gets confusing sometimes with all the confllicting information and opinions everyone has. I want to go with your method all the way, so I took all your posts from this thread and your stovetop all grain and copy and pasted them into a word file. It seems like your way works well for you, so instead of mixing up different techniques, I'd like to try your exact methods. After I posted my questions, I read your stovetop AG thread and it cleared up most of what I was wondering. I gotta stop opening links in new tabs and then forgetting I opened them. I didn't even realize I had about 8 tabs open when I posted.
Anyway, thanks for all your info. I'm gonna put together an order for a partial mash, and see how things go this weekend. I'll probably ask a million questions between now and brew day, so feel free to tell me to STFU. Thanks again.
Anyway, thanks for all your info. I'm gonna put together an order for a partial mash, and see how things go this weekend. I'll probably ask a million questions between now and brew day, so feel free to tell me to STFU. Thanks again.
OP
OP
Question away! That's what I'm here for...I usually will answer in full, but am pretty busy at the moment. I'm going out to the desert from Thur-Mon, and will not have internet access, but there are plenty of people who can help you around here. Hope all goes well!
I just got my Williams Brewing catalog (great timing! 
). Excellent equipment for a guy that has zero mechanical skills. Read, I can't cut metal or weld anything and I really have no desire to learn.
I'm think going to buy their 32 QT brew kettle with ball valve and their kettle screen for my brew pot. I have a great gas kitchen range with one pretty big burner with which I think I can heat up quite a bit of water . Maybe some all grain batches are in my future! I'm also going to start fermenting in their plastic siphonless fermenters. I can get gravity readings a lot easier and more accurately, they are cheaper so I can get more beers fermenting, and I don't have to siphon and get all that sediment into my kegs like I seem to be so good at doing.
They also sell carbonation sugar drops for bottling. I am a kegger but it sure would be nice to bottle a few bottles for gifts, etc. I'm going to give these a try. Has anyone used these before? With the siphonless fermenters it seems like it would be easy enough to bottle half a dozen or a dozen bottles and then keg the rest.
This has truly been a great thread for me. Before I bought kits and threw them together without really thinking about the process. Which is a fine a way to brew by the way. But now I'm starting to think more about the process and the finished product. I think my beers are going to really take off.
I just can't imagine doing things any other way now. Maybe I'll get more advanced someday but with a 2 year old running around and a 13 year old playing lots of sports I don't have Saturdays or Sundays to spend all day brewing.
Thanks DB. I really mean it.
). Excellent equipment for a guy that has zero mechanical skills. Read, I can't cut metal or weld anything and I really have no desire to learn.I'm think going to buy their 32 QT brew kettle with ball valve and their kettle screen for my brew pot. I have a great gas kitchen range with one pretty big burner with which I think I can heat up quite a bit of water . Maybe some all grain batches are in my future! I'm also going to start fermenting in their plastic siphonless fermenters. I can get gravity readings a lot easier and more accurately, they are cheaper so I can get more beers fermenting, and I don't have to siphon and get all that sediment into my kegs like I seem to be so good at doing.
They also sell carbonation sugar drops for bottling. I am a kegger but it sure would be nice to bottle a few bottles for gifts, etc. I'm going to give these a try. Has anyone used these before? With the siphonless fermenters it seems like it would be easy enough to bottle half a dozen or a dozen bottles and then keg the rest.
This has truly been a great thread for me. Before I bought kits and threw them together without really thinking about the process. Which is a fine a way to brew by the way.
But now I'm starting to think more about the process and the finished product. I think my beers are going to really take off.I just can't imagine doing things any other way now. Maybe I'll get more advanced someday but with a 2 year old running around and a 13 year old playing lots of sports I don't have Saturdays or Sundays to spend all day brewing.
Thanks DB. I really mean it.
mikeysab
Well-Known Member
I just got Wiliams' catalog too. I ordered their Belgian quad, and I'm actually gonna bottle it in about ten minutes. I'd say you could get fermenting buckets with spigots cheaper elsewhere. I bought one from Northern, lid and all for around 22 bucks, and I think they're even cheaper at morebeer. I just threw my first batch into one the other day. As I was looking through the catalog, I thought to myself how expensive they were compared to other online vendors. I haven't checked their websiste in awhile, but the catalog didn't have too much grains or hops, but I don't know if their website is any different. I'm thinking of trying a stovetop all grain batch, and I'm probably going to order everything from rebel. They seem to have the cheapest grains and hops. I usually put together the same list on three different sites and order from the cheapest.
bgough
Well-Known Member
Death Brewer, I was just wondering how long you go before you replace your nylon bag strainer? I've been using mine for a few months now, and was thinking about replacing it.
As a side note, I'm getting a 10 gallon cooler so I can start doing all-grain. It seems much easier because I already have a good understanding of how the mash works, thanks to your method!
Thanks again for your help
As a side note, I'm getting a 10 gallon cooler so I can start doing all-grain. It seems much easier because I already have a good understanding of how the mash works, thanks to your method!
Thanks again for your help
OP
OP
I've never replaced my bags, but I have quite a few of them. A couple of them are starting to tear a bit at the top, so they're about due. I've been using them for years.
It really depends on the quality of the bag...there are so many different types.
It really depends on the quality of the bag...there are so many different types.
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DB great thread. It got me thinking about doing a PM on my next brew.
It also got me thinking about how to do this with what I have around the house. Trying to maintain a constant temp during the mash process. I thought about using a crock pot for the mash tun since these are designed to hold/maintain temps. Just preheat it with hot water, mix the grains with the right amount of water and then cover the lid for a hour. Only problem the crock pot is only 7 quarts. To small for a five gallon batch. So off to plan B. Buy another stock pot.
It also got me thinking about how to do this with what I have around the house. Trying to maintain a constant temp during the mash process. I thought about using a crock pot for the mash tun since these are designed to hold/maintain temps. Just preheat it with hot water, mix the grains with the right amount of water and then cover the lid for a hour. Only problem the crock pot is only 7 quarts. To small for a five gallon batch. So off to plan B. Buy another stock pot.
OP
OP
Yeah, 7 quarts is a bit too small...that would only allow you to do about 3 lbs of grain...tops.
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Yea, I looked up crock pots on the internet to see if they made any larger than that and 7 quarts was the biggest size I found.
I have a receipe in mind with a total grain bill of 4lb 13oz. I could decrease the grains a little and just add more extract. I'll have to look at the receipe and see if that will work.
Maybe an excuse to buy more beer brew ware.
I have a receipe in mind with a total grain bill of 4lb 13oz. I could decrease the grains a little and just add more extract. I'll have to look at the receipe and see if that will work.
Maybe an excuse to buy more beer brew ware.
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