Belgian Tripel Tripel Karmeliet Clone

Strange_Brew said:

I am going ahead with this formula and see how it turns out with jrfehon's hop schedule. I'll be using a 1.5L started of the forbidden fruit. Going to LHBS for the oat malt. Might have to play with that in some recipes to see what it's like.

Click to expand...

Only thing I could offer on what the oat malt brings to the beer vs regular oats or malted barley is the marketing blurbs, which are probably way embellished anyway! "texture and warm, grainy flavor", "unmistakable texture and silkiness only oats will produce" ?!?!?

Hex23 said:

Only thing I could offer on what the oat malt brings to the beer vs regular oats or malted barley is the marketing blurbs, which are probably way embellished anyway! "texture and warm, grainy flavor", "unmistakable texture and silkiness only oats will produce" ?!?!?

Click to expand...

Bought three pounds yesterday. Taste is ok (like oats, of course) but the texture is quite different. I'll play with it in some other recipes.

Brewing this today. Is the fresh orange peel the peel or just the zest (like if you used a grater on the peel)?

Never mind. In reviewing I see that zest was used

Update on my work...
I am brewing up a (couple different) variant(s) of this recipe to fill a 10-gallon gin barrel from Corsair... (and experiment with some raspberries, and saison)

So, I have now brewed variations on this recipe twice... The first brew I split into 2 x 5 gallon carboys... one of them got 2 packs of different yeast (supposedly the same yeast from 2 different vendors:
1.0 pkg Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463)
1.0 pkg Sweet Mead/Wine (White Labs #WLP720)

(The yeast from this carboy was salvaged and used in the next 10-gallon batch, which is the one going in the barrel, and the beer from this batch will be used to top up the barrel as necessary, from a keg I am keeping it in for now. Whatever is left over after the 2nd batch is out of the barrel will be bottled up from the keg, and bottle conditioned... I have not carbonated the keg, it is just acting as a holding tank for now)

The other carboy got some Saison yeast, and then got racked on top of some chopped-up raspberries in secondary (total experiment on that one, and the yeast is still working as we speak because it's slow like that with saisons...) (this whole experiment is to make my wife happy with some fruity beer that she will like)

1st recipe:
This one is scaled up from the ones posted here, but I substituted the hops for some that I had on hand in the freezer.
*The orange peel component was about 2 oz of the dried stuff from LHBS (actually 2 different varieties of the dried stuff) and then another ounce or so of fresh orange zest.
* The belgian candi sugar - I actually made a 8 pound batch of candi sugar for this, so I would have 4-lb for each 10-gallon batch, and not pay an arm and a leg for it... and it turned out a nice medium-amber color, which is a bit darker than I was shooting for, but had great flavor, so I went with it.
* No dry hopping has been done yet, that will happen after all of it comes out of the barrel, i'll do that in a keg for a few days before bottling it.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.61 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 28.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
19 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 59.4 %
4 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 12.5 %
4 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 12.5 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 1.6 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.6 %
4 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 6 12.5 %
3.50 oz Opal [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 25.3 IBUs
3.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 8 -
3.00 oz Lublin (Lubelski) [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 9 3.1 IBUs
4.00 Items Anise, Star (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 10 -
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 11 -
1.0 pkg Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463) [124 Yeast 12 -
1.0 pkg Sweet Mead/Wine (White Labs #WLP720) [35 Yeast 13 -
4.00 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 14 0.0 IBUs



2nd Batch Recipe
* (Basically the same, but added 1oz Juniper berries, to compliment the gin barrel, and used all fresh zest from oranges, instead of some dried and some fresh, as with the first one.
* I also used probably an ounce and a half of coriander instead of an ounce, and had 2 varities.. one from LHBS, and one from an international market. (ground up using new hand-crank coffee grinder I got to grind up spices.)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.61 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 28.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
19 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 59.4 %
4 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 12.5 %
4 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 12.5 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 1.6 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.6 %
4 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 6 12.5 %
3.50 oz Opal [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 25.3 IBUs
3.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 8 -
1.00 oz Juniper Berries (Boil 5.0 mins) Flavor 9 -
3.00 oz Lublin (Lubelski) [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 10 3.1 IBUs
4.00 Items Anise, Star (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 11 -
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 12 -
1.0 pkg Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463) [124 Yeast 13 -
1.0 pkg Sweet Mead/Wine (White Labs #WLP720) [35 Yeast 14 -
4.00 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

Wow! That sounds great. Again, keep us posted on the results with the barrel as well as the fruit. I am kegging a raspberry wheat this weekend. My attempt at the KT was .....not good. I missed my numbers and had other problems, so I will make another attempt in the near future.

AaronWadzinski said:

So, I have now brewed variations on this recipe twice... The first brew I split into 2 x 5 gallon carboys... one of them got 2 packs of different yeast (supposedly the same yeast from 2 different vendors:
1.0 pkg Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463)
1.0 pkg Sweet Mead/Wine (White Labs #WLP720)

Click to expand...

Very interested in your opinion of WY3463 vs WLP720. I brewed a version with WY3522 (Ardennes), that came out good, but the yeast character just didn't seem right. I brewed it again, but with 3463, and I have to say that my early impression is that this is not the right yeast at all, although it is still early. After a month in the keg the beer is as cloudy as mud, and really just seems more like a wit beer yeast in character than a tripel. Maybe WLP720 will be closer (that's what CSI recommends in their clone, I believe). I have seen a few places that claim they are definitely not the same strain, although other places say they are.

FYI, I added some lavender to my batch, as well as orange peel. I added too much lavender, and it is somewhat overpowering, but I think that there is probably a little bit of lavender in the real thing. Can't remember how much I used off the top of my head (at work right now so I can't look it up) but will try to post here once it has had some more time to settle out in the keg.

JG

tasted today one bottle in order to control the carbonation. not already carbed. i carbed it using the machine to carb water and... it's already a great beer! only ten days in the bottle and i like it a lot, i was scared because i used the same yeast for the wit and actually i don't like it a lot!

i'll post a comparison with the original karmeliet when mine it's ready (i'm not a great tester so...)

thanks!

JasonG said:

Very interested in your opinion of WY3463 vs WLP720. I brewed a version with WY3522 (Ardennes), that came out good, but the yeast character just didn't seem right. I brewed it again, but with 3463, and I have to say that my early impression is that this is not the right yeast at all, although it is still early. After a month in the keg the beer is as cloudy as mud, and really just seems more like a wit beer yeast in character than a tripel. Maybe WLP720 will be closer (that's what CSI recommends in their clone, I believe). I have seen a few places that claim they are definitely not the same strain, although other places say they are.

FYI, I added some lavender to my batch, as well as orange peel. I added too much lavender, and it is somewhat overpowering, but I think that there is probably a little bit of lavender in the real thing. Can't remember how much I used off the top of my head (at work right now so I can't look it up) but will try to post here once it has had some more time to settle out in the keg.

JG

Click to expand...

I did not use these two yeasts separately, but rather I used both of them at the same time together in the carboy. I did this because I first bought one of them, intending to do a yeast starter, and ended up not having the time to do the starter... so I went to a different LHBS to get another one, and they only had the other brand, so I got the one that was supposed to be the same strain, and just pitched them both into the fermenter...

THEN, the yeast slurry from THAT batch (with both yeasts in it) was saved, and split into two separate carboys to brew another 10 gallons for the final batch.

So, I won't be able to do any comparison.

So, I wanted to try my hand a a Tripel Karmeliet clone. I finally decided to follow the recipe on Candi Syrup website. I've searched all over the place and couldn't find much feedback on their recipes, so I figured I'd go for it and let you guys know how it turns out. I used the WLP720 yeast so I'm curious to see how it will turn out (a sweet mead yeast).
Had to substitute Styrian Goldings for Fuggles, but other than that I pretty much stuck to the recipe.

Update on my juniper-berry added gin-barrel aged Tripel Karmeliet-based recipe...
So the barrel-aging is done, and I've bottled corked & caged the resulting beer with enough corn sugar to shoot for 3.3vol of CO2...

If you want to look it up on untappd search for "brasserie d'octet" It is called "Gin Barrel Tripel"
I've posted a couple of pics here too...

Now just to wait a month or two until it's good and fully bottle-conditioned.

pmaster said:

So, I wanted to try my hand a a Tripel Karmeliet clone. I finally decided to follow the recipe on Candi Syrup website. I've searched all over the place and couldn't find much feedback on their recipes, so I figured I'd go for it and let you guys know how it turns out. I used the WLP720 yeast so I'm curious to see how it will turn out (a sweet mead yeast).
Had to substitute Styrian Goldings for Fuggles, but other than that I pretty much stuck to the recipe.

Click to expand...

Well its been a week, fermentation looks like is close to done. It went from 1.81 to 1.02. I had some more of the original yeast lying around so I made another starter to throw it to see if I can't get to the target FG of 1.12.
That yeast seems very finicky(and an attenuation rate of around 75%) and I don't think I'll be using it again. Anyhow I'll update on the FG once I bottle.

How long should i wait for carbonation in the bottles? Its been 3 weeks now and still flat

Pdaigle said:

How long should i wait for carbonation in the bottles? Its been 3 weeks now and still flat

Click to expand...

A few questions on this one:
What size batch?
How much bottling sugar did you add to the batch?
Did you add sugar to each bottle individually, or for the whole batch?
How long was fermentation, and did you secondary or bulk age it?
What yeast was used in your main fermentation?
What temperature are you storing your bottles at to get them to carb up?


All these factors can contribute to how long it will take for bottle conditioning to happen... but don't panic... as long as you actually dosed the sugar in correctly, it will eventually carb up. It may help to keep them at a warm-ish temperature in the high 70's or low 80's will help speed it up.

AaronWadzinski said:

A few questions on this one:
What size batch?
How much bottling sugar did you add to the batch?
Did you add sugar to each bottle individually, or for the whole batch?
How long was fermentation, and did you secondary or bulk age it?
What yeast was used in your main fermentation?
What temperature are you storing your bottles at to get them to carb up?


All these factors can contribute to how long it will take for bottle conditioning to happen... but don't panic... as long as you actually dosed the sugar in correctly, it will eventually carb up. It may help to keep them at a warm-ish temperature in the high 70's or low 80's will help speed it up.

Click to expand...

About 5 oz of corn sugar for around 5 gallon batch. I primed in the secondary before bottling. Its been 3-4weeks now storef at 68-70F.

Secondary for 7 days and secondary for 14 days and cold crash 7 days out of those 14 days

Yeast used was belgian ardenne

is it just me or it taste too much star anise. I haven't got much luck with Star Anises, each time it seems to taste too much. It kind of overpowered the taste.

this was my attempt:

Boil Size: 26,50 l
Post Boil Volume: 20,50 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 21,00 l
Bottling Volume: 21,00 l
Estimated OG: 1,075 SG
Estimated Color: 9,8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26,7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 67,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 67,0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3,80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3,9 EBC) Grain 1 51,0 %
1,00 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3,9 EBC) Grain 2 13,4 %
0,75 kg Oats, Malted (2,0 EBC) Grain 3 10,1 %
0,50 kg Barley, Flaked (3,3 EBC) Grain 4 6,7 %
0,25 kg Oats, Flaked (2,0 EBC) Grain 5 3,4 %
0,25 kg Wheat, Flaked (3,2 EBC) Grain 6 3,4 %
45,00 g Saaz [3,27 %] - Boil 50,0 min Hop 7 16,0 IBUs
2,00 Items Anise, Star (Boil 30,0 mins) Spice 8 -
15,00 g Saaz [3,27 %] - Boil 20,0 min Hop 9 3,4 IBUs
45,00 g Styrian Goldings [4,00 %] - Boil 10,0 mi Hop 10 7,4 IBUs
0,45 kg Candi Syrup, Golden [Boil for 5 min](9,8 Extract 11 6,0 %
0,45 kg Candi Syrup, Simplicity [Boil for 5 min] Extract 12 6,0 %
2,00 g pepe nero (Boil 5,0 mins) Flavor 13 -
25,00 g Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5,0 mins) Spice 14 -
15,00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 5,0 mins) Spice 15 -
4,0 pkg Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463) [124 Yeast 16 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7,45 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 26,00 l of water at 58,8 C 55,0 C 15 min
Mash Step Add 0,00 l of water and heat to 65,0 C 65,0 C 30 min
Mash Step Add 0,00 l of water and heat to 66,0 C 66,0 C 30 min
mash step Heat to 77,0 C over 4 min 77,0 C 15 min


it's pretty similar but lack a lot of coriander, i think the next time, at least I'll double it

the mounthfeel is pretty similar

mine it's a little bit darker

Nico93,

How did you think Wy3463 did in this beer? I have made a few attempts at getting something close, but the yeast profile has always been off. I have been considering using WLP720 (based on info from the CSI clone), but have trouble getting WLP products here. At least Mr Malty suggests that 720 and 3463 are similar.

JG

JasonG said:

Nico93,

How did you think Wy3463 did in this beer? I have made a few attempts at getting something close, but the yeast profile has always been off. I have been considering using WLP720 (based on info from the CSI clone), but have trouble getting WLP products here. At least Mr Malty suggests that 720 and 3463 are similar.

JG

Click to expand...

i think it works quite well, but it's not so close to the original yeast, this is my opinion but i'm not a great taster and the use of spiece may mislead me

This thread is been up for a while, is there a winner recipe yet ?

Hi all! Really inspired with this recipe, last week mashed both - jrfehon and CSI with some modification. After some explorations I decided to add oat malt. Also I've found that in all recipes I've seen %% of raw grains (or flaked) is 13-16% in grain bill. Another correction - I've doubled flaked oat and barley - don't think that you'll feel 1,6%.

In Rissia we don't have Wyeast or White Labs yest, so I choose dry M31 Tripel from Mangrove Jack's. I used them before, they have proper ester profile, very fruity, but attenuate too high. Taking that in mind mashed 154-155, hope that will help.

Recipes below. Sorry for metric units, hope everything is clear..

#1 jrfehon recipe

Кол-во Наименование Тип № %/IBU
4,00 kg CHÂTEAU PILSEN 2RS (3,0 EBC) Зерно 1 51,9 %
1,00 kg CHÂTEAU WHEAT BLANC (4,5 EBC) Зерно 2 13,0 %
0,80 kg CHÂTEAU OAT (2,3 EBC) Зерно 3 10,4 %
0,50 kg Oats, Flaked (2,0 EBC) Зерно 4 6,5 %
0,25 kg Barley, Flaked (3,3 EBC) Зерно 5 3,2 %
0,25 kg Wheat, Flaked (3,2 EBC) Зерно 6 3,2 %
0,90 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2,0 EBC) Сахар 7 11,7 %
20,00 g Styrian Goldings (Celeia) [3,40 %] - На кипячение 90,0 min Хмель 8 7,5 IBUs
20,00 g Styrian Goldings (Celeia) [3,40 %] - На кипячение 45,0 min Хмель 9 6,4 IBUs
5,00 g Irish Moss (Кипячение 15,0 mins) Очистка 10 -
40,00 g Saaz [3,50 %] - На кипячение 15,0 min Хмель 11 7,1 IBUs
50,00 g Orange Peel, Sweet (Кипячение 5,0 mins) Пряность 12 -
20,00 g Coriander Seed (Кипячение 5,0 mins) Пряность 13 -
3,00 g Anise, Star (Кипячение 5,0 mins) Пряность 14 -
40,00 g Saaz [3,50 %] - На кипячение 5,0 min Хмель 15 2,9 IBUs
1,0 pkg Belgian Tripel (Mangrove Jack's #M31) Дрожжи 16 -

#2 CSI recipe

Кол-во Наименование Тип № %/IBU
5,00 kg CHÂTEAU PILSEN 2RS (3,0 EBC) Зерно 1 63,3 %
1,00 kg CHÂTEAU WHEAT BLANC (4,5 EBC) Зерно 2 12,7 %
0,50 kg Barley, Flaked (3,3 EBC) Зерно 3 6,3 %
0,25 kg Oats, Flaked (2,0 EBC) Зерно 4 3,2 %
0,25 kg Wheat, Flaked (3,2 EBC) Зерно 5 3,2 %
0,20 kg CHÂTEAU OAT (2,3 EBC) Зерно 6 2,5 %
0,70 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2,0 EBC) Сахар 7 8,9 %
36,00 g Saaz [3,50 %] - На кипячение 50,0 min Хмель 8 11,9 IBUs
18,00 g Saaz [3,50 %] - На кипячение 20,0 min Хмель 9 3,8 IBUs
5,00 g Irish Moss (Кипячение 15,0 mins) Очистка 10 -
54,00 g Styrian Goldings (Celeia) [3,40 %] - На кипячение 10,0 min Хмель 11 6,6 IBUs
1,0 pkg Belgian Tripel (Mangrove Jack's #M31) Дрожжи 12 -

must #2 to the left and #1 to the right

Transferred to secondary, took a gravity reading - 1.004. Hops in jrfehon recipe really spot on.

Bottled both batches, carbed #1 to 2.9 CO2, another one - to 2.9 CO2.

It's been fun following this thread, which I started a few years ago. I'm onto somewhere around my 7th attempt at cloning this beer. My last try had the right flavor but the carbonation was a bit off and the mouthfeel was too thin. So I'm employing a step mash and I'm going to carb in the keg with sugar, instead of force carbing with straight CO2. I brewed this recipe yesterday. It went well, only flaw was my efficiency was low and I missed my targeted OG of 1.081. My second use of a Grain Father so I'm still figuring out how to get better efficiency. I ended up starting at 1.075.

5.5 Gallon Batch - Filtered Tap Water w/ 3 TSP Calcium Carbonate
10.5 LBs Dingmans Pilsner
2LBs Flaked Wheat
1LB Weyerman Wheat Malt
4oz Flaked Oats
4oz Oat Malt
4oz Flaked Barley
1LB Clear Candi Sugar (FO)

.5oz Styrian Goldings (90)
.5oz Styrian Goldings (45)
1oz Saaz (15)
1oz Saaz (5)

2 Star Anise (30 minutes left in boil) (by 2 I mean two stars, not ounces)
1.5oz fresh orange zest (5)
.5oz crushed coriander seeds (5)

Primary Yeast - White Labs 500
Carbing Yest - Salfale BE-256

Mash Steps:
110 Acid Rest (10 Minutes)
122 Protein Rest (15 minutes)
149 Beta Rest (30 Minutes)
158 Alpha Rest (30 Minutes)
172 Mash Out (10 Minutes)

I'm going to follow the fermentation schedule in Brew Like A Monk, 75 degrees for the first week. I might go a bit longer. Then I plan to secondary at 32 for three weeks before kegging (I didn't use any finings so I'm going to have to cold crash to clear it up a bit). I'll update in a few weeks when I transfer to the secondary.

I just had a Karmaliet Tripel a couple of weeks ago and it was so good, so I decided to brew it for my next batch, which led me here. Here's what I'll be trying:

Target: 20L, OG 1.084, FG 1.021, SRM 3, IBUs 22
~70% brewhouse efficiency, 60-minute boil, 60-minute mash
1 packet of WLP530 abbey ale yeast with a small starter

Grist:
4kg Crisp Europils Malt (51.0%)
1.05kg Crisp Wheat Malt (13.3%)
0.95kg Table Sugar (12.1%)
0.79kg Malted Oats (10.1%)
0.53kg Crisp Flaked Torrified Barley (6.8%)
0.26kg Crisp Torrified Wheat (3.3%)
0.26kg Crisp Flaked Torrified Oats (3.3%)
(before anyone asks about the weird numbers, these are rounded weights based on a scaled recipe from gal->L mentioned earlier in this thread)

Hops:
21g Styrian Golding (AA 4.8%) 60 minutes
42.1g Saaz (AA 3.4%) 15 minutes
42.1g Saaz (AA 3.4%) 5 mintues
29.0g Saaz (AA 3.4%) dry hop @ 5 days

Additional:
56g Star Anise 30 minutes
56g Sweet Orange Peel 5 minutes
28g Coriander Seeds 5 minutes

I'll be brewing tomorrow night and I'll post my results here!

Sgpk242 said:

56g Star Anise 30 minutes

Click to expand...

Yikes! I used one star and felt it was plenty!

Sgpk242 said:

Target: 20L, OG 1.084, FG 1.021, SRM 3, IBUs 22
...
0.95kg Table Sugar (12.1%)

Click to expand...

With WLP 530 and 12% of sugar FG will be something around 1.010-1.012 and 10%ABV. I'd suggest to make OG a little bit lower.

Thanks for the tips guys. @griffi, you used just one single crushed-up star anise? How long will they last, because dang I got a couple dozen of them for just a couple bucks... @Zver, you're probably right but I used a brewing recipe calculator that said to expect a final gravity of 1.021. Where did I go wrong? Is WLP530 particularly good at digesting table sugar?

Ok, when I made my batch, I forgot to put the star anise in the boil. But, since I was adding sugar to the fermenter, I boiled a lb of sugar in water to sanitize and I used that occasion to make a tea of the star anise. I didn't crush or anything, just boiled in the sugar for about 5 min. Believe me, 1 star anise added to a 5 gal batch this way is significant. IMO, Karmaliet doesn't have this citrus and anise out front, but rather in the background of flavors. But, try what you think will work and adjust for the next time...

I use BeerSmith and achieve predicted FG one time of ten.
Just look for WLP 530 attenuation issues at forum, and you’ll find that this amount of fermentables will show 95-90% apparent attenuation.
Another observation - almost everybody finally get more ABV, than expected. This is not so important for 5% ABV beer, but then you get 10%ABV instead of 8,5% - pfffff...

jrfehon said:

It's been fun following this thread, which I started a few years ago. I'm onto somewhere around my 7th attempt at cloning this beer. My last try had the right flavor but the carbonation was a bit off and the mouthfeel was too thin. So I'm employing a step mash and I'm going to carb in the keg with sugar, instead of force carbing with straight CO2. I brewed this recipe yesterday. It went well, only flaw was my efficiency was low and I missed my targeted OG of 1.081. My second use of a Grain Father so I'm still figuring out how to get better efficiency. I ended up starting at 1.075.

5.5 Gallon Batch - Filtered Tap Water w/ 3 TSP Calcium Carbonate
10.5 LBs Dingmans Pilsner
2LBs Flaked Wheat
1LB Weyerman Wheat Malt
4oz Flaked Oats
4oz Oat Malt
4oz Flaked Barley
1LB Clear Candi Sugar (FO)

.5oz Styrian Goldings (90)
.5oz Styrian Goldings (45)
1oz Saaz (15)
1oz Saaz (5)

2 Star Anise (30 minutes left in boil) (by 2 I mean two stars, not ounces)
1.5oz fresh orange zest (5)
.5oz crushed coriander seeds (5)

Primary Yeast - White Labs 500
Carbing Yest - Salfale BE-256

Mash Steps:
110 Acid Rest (10 Minutes)
122 Protein Rest (15 minutes)
149 Beta Rest (30 Minutes)
158 Alpha Rest (30 Minutes)
172 Mash Out (10 Minutes)

I'm going to follow the fermentation schedule in Brew Like A Monk, 75 degrees for the first week. I might go a bit longer. Then I plan to secondary at 32 for three weeks before kegging (I didn't use any finings so I'm going to have to cold crash to clear it up a bit). I'll update in a few weeks when I transfer to the secondary.

Click to expand...

Do they use a WL500 like strain ? What is the BLAM saying ? Also can most likely get a starter from the slurry of a bottle.

Did you make your own Candy Sirop ? Using sugar usually dries the beer and makes it lighter body but 158F should be good, the other steps won't create body but rather help yeast develop different esters.

About carbonation, the sugar calculation should use the highest temp the beer was at in the fermentation process and not the bottling temperature.

BLAM says they use two strains but not specific which ones. I’ve found WLP500 to be the closest of what I’ve used. This time I plan to bottle and referment with a dry Belgian abbey yeast. I’m almost ready to bottle my latest batch. Definitely the best flavor of all my attempts to clone TK.

Sounds good, keep us posted. I will have to retry it soon.

I always condition my belgians, its work to do 10.5 gallons but is worth it, the bottle conditioning does make the beer better most likely is fact the oxydation is reduced and the CO2 stays constant unlike in the kegs.

BTW my Portuguese corker does give me headaches ( even at 3.5 Volume i have to use a bottle opener) if have any good tips I'd take them

Oh, also star anise it could be hit and miss. Since the size differs. Anise seeds might give better/consistent aroma. Anyone tried them ?

Brewing this up over the weekend and will be the first using my new Grainfather so can finally do step mashes. Going by the CSI recipe (who I really rate) the total mash time is 2 hours 10 minutes. Now with heating times that could end up being a 3 hour minimum process. They list the mash as

Protein rest @ 50°C 45 minutes
Saccharification @ 63.9°C 60 minutes
Saccharification 2 @ 72.2°C 20 minutes
Mash out @ 76.6°C 15 minutes

Is this schedule overkill. I've never done a step mash so not sure if I should jut ffollow this schedule or scale the times back a bit.

Triple Karmeliet is one of my favorite beers so can't wait to try it. I got the star anise, coriander and orange peal but still not sure if I'll use them as its not on the CSI recipe. Does these additions make or break the beer?

My two cents, even though csi doesn’t mention the spices, use them but use them VERY sparingly.

If people haven't seen this, this article talks about the original 17th century manuscript recipe that Bosteels claimed to be inspired by, although there's an element of convenient fiction to that story :

http://lostbeers.com/the-original-17th-century-tripel-karmeliet-recipe/

20 litres
5.1kg pilsner (but pale might be a better approximation)
1.7kg malted wheat
0.85kg malted spelt (but Bosteels use malted oats )

97g Hallertau Mittelfruh 60 min

Brewed this over the weekend. The Grainfather is an incredible piece of kit. My final volume was off but thats my mistake and the chiller is so good, maybe even too good as it cooled my wort to around 58°F. I used the WLP720 meed/wine yeast just like Forbidden fruit. To me this is not the correct yeast, I had my reservations about using it before I started and I'm seeing why. Fermentation is non existent. Airlock action stopped after around 36 hours and krausen had completely dropped out in under 24 hours. Looks like I have a stuck fermentation. I'm at 1.024 after 48 hours and can't see it dropping much more. Sample tastes terrible, so sweet like a liquid Jolly Rancher, really can't see this working out. I'll take a gravity at the weekend and make a call as I know airlock activity isn't a sign of fermentation. I made a double starter for this so I have enough to pitch more if needed even though I know this isn't ideal.

Pretty disappointed in this as I had a Triple Karmeliet the night before making it. Reckon this will be going down the drain. What's everyone else's experience with this yeast? Is it very sluggish or is it because I put the yeast in when the wort was only 58°F? I had to go out straight after brewing and didn't know what time I'd be home. I have the temperature at 75°F now, should I go higher to try and drop a few more points?

jrfehon said:

I brewed today, my third try at this clone. I made a 1.5L starter of Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit. Since I upped the amount of sugar, I compensated by increasing my mash temperature to 154 from 152. I tend to get high attenuation so I'd like to get around 75% this go around instead of 85%, like I got before. I did end up stealing a few ideas from the CSI recipe.

5.5G Batch
OG 1.079
FG 1.015
ABV: 8.53%
SRM: 4.1
IBU: 23.2
Mash Temp: 154
Mash Time: 90 Minutes
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Fermentation Temp: 75 Degrees for 3 Weeks, Secondary 56 Degrees for 2 Months (temp of my basement)

8.75LBs Pilsner
2LBs Wheat Malt
2LBs Flaked Wheat
.25LBs Flaked Oats
.25LBs Oat Malt
.25LBs Flaked Barley
1.5LBs Sugar (FO)

.5oz Styrian Goldings (90)
.5oz Styrian Goldings (45)
1oz Saaz (15)
1oz Saaz (5)

1.5oz Fresh Orange Zest (5)
.5oz Crushed Coriander (5)
2 Star Anise (5)

I'll post results in a three weeks when I transfer to secondary.

Click to expand...

Hello, I want to try your recipe for my next beer and I have a question about the fermentation. You left your batch in primary fermentation for 3 weeks before moving it to secondary and I usually left my beer in primary for 1 week before moving it to secondary. Is there a reason why you don't transfer it more early in the process, are you not afraid of off flavor made by sleeping yeast? If I want to transfer it after 1 week, do you think the orange/corander/anis would have been in the beer enough time to add the flavors? What do you think? I never let a batch in the primary fermentation for more than a week so this is why all those questions

First of all I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this post. I can't wait to try this clone on my electric brewery setup. Second, I'd like to give a couple of suggestions if I may. Has anyone thought of making a tea out of the spices and adding at keg/bottle time instead of adding to the boil? I do this all the time and the flavors are extremely fresh tasting. Also, rigorous boils add increased color to wort. Seeing that this is a 90 minute boil, maybe lowering the boil temp will help with achieving a lighter color. I will try both and will post results. Wish me luck!