My first 'custom' recipe..

Trying to make a simple Pale Ale....am I close?

No Name Pale Ale

Malts

• 2.3 lbs Briess Golden Light DME
• 0.5 lbs Crystal 80L (Steeped 30mins @ 160 F)

Hops (30 minute boil)

• 1/4 oz Nugget @ 30 mins
• 1/4 oz Cascade @ 20 mins
• 1/2 oz Cascade @ 5 mins
• 3/4 oz Cascade - Dry Hopped (7 Days)

Specs (Using BeerCalculus)

• Starting Gravity: 1.050 (estimated)
• Final Gravity: 1.013 (estimated)
• SRM: 13 (estimated)
• IBU: 35 (estimated)
• ABV: 5.5% (estimated)
• Yeast: Safale US-05 (6 grams)
• Batch Size: 2.1 Gallons Yes it's a Mr. Beer
• Fermentation: 10-12 Days @ 65-66 F
• Dry Hop In Primary for 7-10 days
• Priming Solution + Bottle Carbonation

Why use hopped extract when you are adding hops? Also 2.5 lbs of crystal malt is waaaay to much for that sized batch. It's even too much for a 5 gallon batch. A fifth to a quarter of a pound would be more appropriate for 5 gallons. Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels is great book for making recipes.

JonK331 said:

Why use hopped extract when you are adding hops? Also 2.5 lbs of crystal malt is waaaay to much for that sized batch. It's even too much for a 5 gallon batch. A fifth to a quarter of a pound would be more appropriate for 5 gallons. Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels is great book for making recipes.

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I need to use up this Mr beer extract and its hopped already (that's the 1.5lbs).

A quarter of a pound steeped crystal only adds 2.5 points to the total sugars. (So 1.028 OG instead of 1.052) How is that too much? I'm steeping, not mashing.

Slider46 said:

I need to use up this Mr beer extract and its hopped already (that's the 1.5lbs).

A quarter of a pound steeped crystal only adds 2.5 points to the total sugars. (So 1.028 OG instead of 1.052) How is that too much? I'm steeping, not mashing.

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I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying here. You are adding 2.5 lb crystal, not 0.25 lb
1.5 lbs LME made up to 2.125g will give you a gravity of about 1.026
Bumping up the gravity to 1.052 by using crystal would mean that 50% of your fermentables have to come from the crystal.
I think that most people would agree that you don't want more than 20% of the fermentables to come from crystal, yet you are anticipating 50% (2.5 times the recommended maximum).
My opinion is that you don't want more than about 5% crystal, but that is based on what I like, so you are exceeding what I consider acceptable by a factor of 10.
The maximum of 20% is literally a maximum. Most people would say the maximum acceptable to them would be rather less than 20% My maximum of 5% is based on my prejudices, and I will concede that there are plenty of people that would be happy to exceed that percentage.
What I think you need to do is to cut way back on the crystal, and to add some DME or LME to increase the gravity.
If you do this, you will need to add some hops, but you have addressed this in your OP. I'm not going to try to guess how much hops to add without having a more balanced idea of the fermentable composition.

-a.

What's the reasoning for not exceeding 20% fermentables (from crystal)? Just curious.

Flavor and attenuation.
In small amounts crystal malt adds flavor and color. If you keep the amount of crystal within bounds, you will not find the flavor excessive. If you add too much, you will get a cloying flavor in the finished beer.
Think of it a bit like salt when cooking. Adding a little bit of salt to something enhances the flavor of that something. If you add too much, all you can taste is the excess salt.
Also, crystal malt is not very fermentable, and adding a large amount will result in a high final gravity.

-a.

ajf said:

Flavor and attenuation.
In small amounts crystal malt adds flavor and color. If you keep the amount of crystal within bounds, you will not find the flavor excessive. If you add too much, you will get a cloying flavor in the finished beer.
Think of it a bit like salt when cooking. Adding a little bit of salt to something enhances the flavor of that something. If you add too much, all you can taste is the excess salt.
Also, crystal malt is not very fermentable, and adding a large amount will result in a high final gravity.

-a.

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Good info. Thanks

Since you are already doing a partial mash, cut down the crystal (cut the 40 out completely), and add some two-row or maris otter. That would give you a great Pale Ale.

I don't see a partial mash here. Crystal doesn't require mashing, just steeping; but I agree that doing a partial mash is not much more difficult than just steeping, and replacing the 2 lb crystal 40 with 2 lb pale malt and using 1/4 - 1/2 lb crystal 60 could make a pretty good pale ale.

-a.

if hes steeping that much grain, than replacing the 2lb of crystal with 2lb of 2-row is basically the same thing. Steep at 152ish for 30 mins and you are ready to go. steep/mini mash...same thing

That's what I meant. Although one wouldn't normally partial-mash crystal malt, I saw the amount and figured he was pretty much mashing it.

I think you're confusing crystal malt with base malt. You don't want fermentable sugars from crystal malts, really, you just use those malts for flavor and color contributions. They contribute primarily unfermentable sugars.

When you add base malts to your mash they provide fermentables, which in this case your 1.5 lb LME is contributing. 2.5 lb crystal in a 2.5 gallon brew would be cloying most likely, but it *might* be good so it's up to you ultimately. However, I wouldn't do it.

Airborneguy said:

Since you are already doing a partial mash, cut down the crystal (cut the 40 out completely), and add some two-row or maris otter. That would give you a great Pale Ale.

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ajf said:

I don't see a partial mash here. Crystal doesn't require mashing, just steeping; but I agree that doing a partial mash is not much more difficult than just steeping, and replacing the 2 lb crystal 40 with 2 lb pale malt and using 1/4 - 1/2 lb crystal 60 could make a pretty good pale ale.

-a.

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dirty_martini said:

if hes steeping that much grain, than replacing the 2lb of crystal with 2lb of 2-row is basically the same thing. Steep at 152ish for 30 mins and you are ready to go. steep/mini mash...same thing

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So I technically don't need a mash tun to "mini mash" a regular malt? (Thats what is keeping me from using other grains. I thought they had to be mashed separately whereas crystal just needs to be steeped..)

Updated the recipe...

Not at all. You can get various sized nylon/muslin bags and mash however much malt you decide right in the pot. It's harder to keep the temperature steady, but it will be effective in providing you with more fermentables.

Slider46 said:

So I technically don't need a mash tun to "mini mash" a regular malt? (Thats what is keeping me from using other grains. I thought they had to be mashed separately whereas crystal just needs to be steeped..)

Updated the recipe...

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Technically mashing is different than steeping in that starches get converted into sugars and dextrins during a mash, while grains that just need steeping are already converted.
Procedurally, the only difference is that with a mash you need to pay a bit more attention to the temperature, and to steep for long enough for the starches to convert.
Deathbrewer has an excellent sticky in the stickies of the beginner section https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/
As a mash is simply a steep with base malts, it isn't necessary to mash the base malts, and separately steep the specialty malts. They all go in the mash together.
If you can't get the recommended hop/grain bag, you can get paint strainer bags from the hardware store that work really well. You will need the 5g size.

-a.

Also, Maris Otter needs to be mashed - it is a base grain. You'll get some sugars if you can hold the steep temp steady enough, but maybe only 50% of what you could get from a mash. You'll also end up with more starches in the beer this way, which is not usually a good thing.

If you're steeping with a base malt, then you are mashing, and as I and Deathbrewer said, you need to give it long enough for the starches to convert. If you do that, you are mashing, and you won't end up with starches in the beer. You probably won't get quite the efficiency with the brew in a bag, that you could get with a traditional sparge, but there are plenty of people on this forum that do it, and do it successfully.

-a.

Changed the recipe again, trying to get something close to a Flying Dog Classic Pale Ale