Quick question, I just racked off a 3 week 1 gallon batch of mead. Its been about 3 days and I have a small amount of lees already showing. Will I need to rack this again or just let her age to clearing? Im still getting one bubble every 5-10 minutes or so give or take...real slow but still somewhat active...Is there a level I should consider racking at as far as the lees go?
Secondary Lees question
- Thread starter ruger12pk
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pulpfiction32
Well-Known Member
let it sit for another month and rack again
OP
OP
ruger12pk
Well-Known Member
hightest
Well-Known Member
Once your mead is racked off the primary lees, there is no reason to be concerned over secondary lees accumulation, unless:
- You intend to leave it in the secondary several months (over 6-9 months), or
- An excessive amount of lees accumulate (say over 3/4")
OP
OP
ruger12pk
Well-Known Member
Id say there is no more than 1/16 in there right now So Im not to concerned. I sorta of doubt it will be in there 6 - 9 months...3 months perhaps and when it starts to clear Ill drop in a tad of bentonite and when im sure its no longer active ill bottle it up!!!
Thanks Hightest!
Kauai_Kahuna
Well-Known Member
ruger12pk - Only thing I could add is you may have racked a little too soon. You want fermentation to be slowing, IE 90% done. If there has been one thing I have learned is giving the primary fermentation time, it allows the yeast to complete their cycle and clean up after themselves.
When you rack too early you dramatically reduce the yeast population, change their environment and generally really F... up their day, and they go into a work stoppage.
The good news is; Your still make good mead, and I'm proud to say I have done the same thing on many meads, beers, ciders, etc. In short don't really worry about it. If after two to nine months it is still not clear and ready to bottle, then check back.
When you rack too early you dramatically reduce the yeast population, change their environment and generally really F... up their day, and they go into a work stoppage.
The good news is; Your still make good mead, and I'm proud to say I have done the same thing on many meads, beers, ciders, etc. In short don't really worry about it. If after two to nine months it is still not clear and ready to bottle, then check back.
OP
OP
ruger12pk
Well-Known Member
ruger12pk - Only thing I could add is you may have racked a little too soon. You want fermentation to be slowing, IE 90% done. If there has been one thing I have learned is giving the primary fermentation time, it allows the yeast to complete their cycle and clean up after themselves.
When you rack too early you dramatically reduce the yeast population, change their environment and generally really F... up their day, and they go into a work stoppage.
The good news is; Your still make good mead, and I'm proud to say I have done the same thing on many meads, beers, ciders, etc. In short don't really worry about it. If after two to nine months it is still not clear and ready to bottle, then check back.
Well, from what ive heard and seen is that once the primary gets about 3 weeks and its only bubbling once every 30 seconds then its time...so I racked it when that stage was reached...I was concerned for a bit that I may have stuck it but it has a bubble every 5-10 minutes or so....so at least its still doing something and the apperance of new lees either means its ok or dying off..dunno which..maybe both!
SegmentedMonkey
Well-Known Member
Can you re-pitch yeast in the event that one F-s up the yeasts' day?
Would this re-populate them quickly, in order to let them continue their work? Basically turning the secondary back in to a primary in the case of a premature evacuation.
Would this re-populate them quickly, in order to let them continue their work? Basically turning the secondary back in to a primary in the case of a premature evacuation.
I'm also somewhat concerned about how my mead is progressing.
I started on: 4/4/2017
with:
2 packets of lalvin D47
4 gal h20
18lb wildflower honey
2.5tsp energizer
5tsp nutrient
for a total of 5 gal.
The hydrometer read around 15% alcohol content and SG of around 1.115
This was fermented in a "5" gal (little larger than that) bucket with a double airlock.
I let it sit until 4/22/2017 so roughly 2 1/2 weeks and by this time the airlock was bubbling approx. every 1 min.
Did a second hydrometer reading and got a FG of 1.010. so roughly 15% alcohol content. I'd assumed from what I read that and after doing the math that primary fermentation had pretty much ended by this point.
I then transferred to a 6.5 gal carboy and topped it off with 1 gal of h20.
Once I'd transferred it I noticed very little lees left behind on the bottom of the bucket. (maybe like a millimeter or 2 of dead yeast at the bottom.)
It's been 5 days since secondary racking and I've noticed that it has cleared quite a bit compared to right after racking and there's roughly 3/4 in of lees now at the bottom of the carboy. The airlock is bubbling every minute pretty much on the dot.
I've read that you don't want to keep the accumulated lees in with your mead due to the off flavors it can produce but I've been having a really hard time trying to nail down specifics. (everyone seems to think something different).
I also plan on letting this sit for several months to let it age but I don't want to leave an inch of lees at the bottom if it will end up ruining the taste.
I have a secondary batch that I've started with more or less the same values (the good orange blossom honey this time) So I'd like to nail down any mistakes I might have made before that second batch is ready to rack.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: I don't plan on back sweetening as when I took a sample for my hydrometer reading I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone and drank it and enjoyed the taste (kind of like a heavy wine) which I'm sure will taste lighter once the mead has completely cleared.
The energizer and nutrient were all added into the must and mixed prior to adding the re-hydrated D47. I haven't added anything to it other than the gallon of spring water to top it off once racking to the carboy.
After some intense searching I realized I probably should have left my mead at primary fermentation for a bit longer due to the way this yeast works as well as kept it a bit cooler (temp ranged from 66-70F)
Second times the charm, there's a reason I used the not-so-good honey as my first time ferment
I did just pour some off to recheck the FG and it's now around 1.005.
It definitely has a mild alcohol smell to it but more of a mild sweet smell. After several sips (a finger or two) I can already feel the buzz, about on par with drinking half a glass of wine.
The taste is sweet at first but not enough to cover the alcohol taste which hits strong at first but tapers off within a few seconds of passing the pallet. (much like a strong white wine) The vapors also give off a somewhat strong aroma after passing the pallet but leave quite quickly. I'm guessing this will eventually smooth out with age? Also, as I noticed through the glass carboy, it has significantly cleared and thinned (which I'm guessing explains all of the yeast at the bottom). There is no yeast settling at the bottom of the glass like there was when I first racked it off. I wouldn't say it is corona clear but it definitely is halfway there.
Now if you've stuck with me through all of this I have only three questions that really need answering (although any other helpful comments are welcome):
1. I read that with d47 strain, the lees can sit for about a month before the mead should be poured off. What are your thoughts folks?
2. From my description, is the current product on the correct course or did I screw up someplace?
3. Since I racked at 1.010 and it is now around 1.005, I know I should continue to monitor SG readings every couple weeks until stable. I know this is more of a primary fermentation question but since I've already racked it off, should I continue to do this or should I just consider myself in secondary and allow it to further clarify and at some point rack to a tertiary carboy once enough lees has accumulated and only recheck SG several times prior to bottling?
Thank you for any insights you can share! As a scientist this is such a fun hobby, even when/if I've screwed up
I started on: 4/4/2017
with:
2 packets of lalvin D47
4 gal h20
18lb wildflower honey
2.5tsp energizer
5tsp nutrient
for a total of 5 gal.
The hydrometer read around 15% alcohol content and SG of around 1.115
This was fermented in a "5" gal (little larger than that) bucket with a double airlock.
I let it sit until 4/22/2017 so roughly 2 1/2 weeks and by this time the airlock was bubbling approx. every 1 min.
Did a second hydrometer reading and got a FG of 1.010. so roughly 15% alcohol content. I'd assumed from what I read that and after doing the math that primary fermentation had pretty much ended by this point.
I then transferred to a 6.5 gal carboy and topped it off with 1 gal of h20.
Once I'd transferred it I noticed very little lees left behind on the bottom of the bucket. (maybe like a millimeter or 2 of dead yeast at the bottom.)
It's been 5 days since secondary racking and I've noticed that it has cleared quite a bit compared to right after racking and there's roughly 3/4 in of lees now at the bottom of the carboy. The airlock is bubbling every minute pretty much on the dot.
I've read that you don't want to keep the accumulated lees in with your mead due to the off flavors it can produce but I've been having a really hard time trying to nail down specifics. (everyone seems to think something different).
I also plan on letting this sit for several months to let it age but I don't want to leave an inch of lees at the bottom if it will end up ruining the taste.
I have a secondary batch that I've started with more or less the same values (the good orange blossom honey this time) So I'd like to nail down any mistakes I might have made before that second batch is ready to rack.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: I don't plan on back sweetening as when I took a sample for my hydrometer reading I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone and drank it and enjoyed the taste (kind of like a heavy wine) which I'm sure will taste lighter once the mead has completely cleared.
The energizer and nutrient were all added into the must and mixed prior to adding the re-hydrated D47. I haven't added anything to it other than the gallon of spring water to top it off once racking to the carboy.
After some intense searching I realized I probably should have left my mead at primary fermentation for a bit longer due to the way this yeast works as well as kept it a bit cooler (temp ranged from 66-70F)
Second times the charm, there's a reason I used the not-so-good honey as my first time ferment
I did just pour some off to recheck the FG and it's now around 1.005.
It definitely has a mild alcohol smell to it but more of a mild sweet smell. After several sips (a finger or two) I can already feel the buzz, about on par with drinking half a glass of wine.
The taste is sweet at first but not enough to cover the alcohol taste which hits strong at first but tapers off within a few seconds of passing the pallet. (much like a strong white wine) The vapors also give off a somewhat strong aroma after passing the pallet but leave quite quickly. I'm guessing this will eventually smooth out with age? Also, as I noticed through the glass carboy, it has significantly cleared and thinned (which I'm guessing explains all of the yeast at the bottom). There is no yeast settling at the bottom of the glass like there was when I first racked it off. I wouldn't say it is corona clear but it definitely is halfway there.
Now if you've stuck with me through all of this I have only three questions that really need answering (although any other helpful comments are welcome):
1. I read that with d47 strain, the lees can sit for about a month before the mead should be poured off. What are your thoughts folks?
2. From my description, is the current product on the correct course or did I screw up someplace?
3. Since I racked at 1.010 and it is now around 1.005, I know I should continue to monitor SG readings every couple weeks until stable. I know this is more of a primary fermentation question but since I've already racked it off, should I continue to do this or should I just consider myself in secondary and allow it to further clarify and at some point rack to a tertiary carboy once enough lees has accumulated and only recheck SG several times prior to bottling?
Thank you for any insights you can share! As a scientist this is such a fun hobby, even when/if I've screwed up
Your question is similar to the OPs but you would likely get more response if you had posted on your own thread. No worries here, just thought I would share a trick for getting more folks to view and respond to it.
In my opinion the response by Kauai_Kahuna applies - "you may have racked a little too soon. You want fermentation to be slowing, IE 90% done. If there has been one thing I have learned is giving the primary fermentation time, it allows the yeast to complete their cycle and clean up after themselves.
When you rack too early you dramatically reduce the yeast population, change their environment and generally really F... up their day, and they go into a work stoppage."
In answer to your questions:
1. I read that with d47 strain, the lees can sit for about a month before the mead should be poured off. What are your thoughts folks?
I have used D47 on many occasions and yes in my opinion the advice is good when in secondary. However, I have not noticed an appreciable difference even at a few months on the lees in primary. Lees do add flavor and some folks prefer the flavor the yeast / lees throw over time. I can see why you would be confused. Like many other practices it really boils down to personal preference. (You might want to try building a design of experiment.)
2. From my description, is the current product on the correct course or did I screw up someplace?
Looks to me like you are on track. I would suggest as Kahuna stated you did rack a little early. Lees in primary are OK for a good long time as long as active fermentation is taking place, In this case D47 at 66 deg F is about the right temperature. Can take up to a few months in primary to near completion.
I would discourage the use of water to top off your Mead. My feeling is it thins out the Mead, does add volume but dilutes the flavors. Consider going to a smaller carboy or add sanitized flat marbles if you are concerned about head space and oxidation, again not a concern if fermenting.
3. Since I racked at 1.010 and it is now around 1.005, I know I should continue to monitor SG readings every couple weeks until stable. I know this is more of a primary fermentation question but since I've already racked it off, should I continue to do this or should I just consider myself in secondary and allow it to further clarify and at some point rack to a tertiary carboy once enough lees has accumulated and only recheck SG several times prior to bottling?
The reason it is called secondary is because it is still fermenting a bit. As long as the SG is still dropping you should consider it to be still fermenting. Check it periodically and as noted if stable over a few weeks then you are done, then rack to tertiary for aging.
In secondary I rack each time I notice 1/4 " lees or so OR until I just cant stand not messing with it anymore. Usually only takes a couple of racks. Be sure to give it time as that is one of the best ways of letting it clear.
Finally - I noticed you mentioned you are a Scientist. I am a Chemist and have found with this craft (err addiction) that if you want reasonably repeatable results good solid practices and techniques are very important. However my first career was as a Chef and as a Chef your ingredients and the synergies between them are key to a successful result. What i am implying is that good solid practice and technique are more important than exacting conditions. Mead is pretty forgiving ingredients vary greatly and come in many flavor profiles. I believe this is more of a craft that relies on science for the desired end result.
Don't over think this, take good notes and follow good general practices most often what you find on the forums is solid advice even though it at times is conflicting advice. The point is it works for them under the conditions they have while using the ingredients and techniques they are following. As well, each of us have varying likes and or pallets and of course our own preferences. Figure out what works for you. I am convinced with a little experience you will be able to produce what you and perhaps others would consider some good to great Mead.
In my opinion the response by Kauai_Kahuna applies - "you may have racked a little too soon. You want fermentation to be slowing, IE 90% done. If there has been one thing I have learned is giving the primary fermentation time, it allows the yeast to complete their cycle and clean up after themselves.
When you rack too early you dramatically reduce the yeast population, change their environment and generally really F... up their day, and they go into a work stoppage."
In answer to your questions:
1. I read that with d47 strain, the lees can sit for about a month before the mead should be poured off. What are your thoughts folks?
I have used D47 on many occasions and yes in my opinion the advice is good when in secondary. However, I have not noticed an appreciable difference even at a few months on the lees in primary. Lees do add flavor and some folks prefer the flavor the yeast / lees throw over time. I can see why you would be confused. Like many other practices it really boils down to personal preference. (You might want to try building a design of experiment.)
2. From my description, is the current product on the correct course or did I screw up someplace?
Looks to me like you are on track. I would suggest as Kahuna stated you did rack a little early. Lees in primary are OK for a good long time as long as active fermentation is taking place, In this case D47 at 66 deg F is about the right temperature. Can take up to a few months in primary to near completion.
I would discourage the use of water to top off your Mead. My feeling is it thins out the Mead, does add volume but dilutes the flavors. Consider going to a smaller carboy or add sanitized flat marbles if you are concerned about head space and oxidation, again not a concern if fermenting.
3. Since I racked at 1.010 and it is now around 1.005, I know I should continue to monitor SG readings every couple weeks until stable. I know this is more of a primary fermentation question but since I've already racked it off, should I continue to do this or should I just consider myself in secondary and allow it to further clarify and at some point rack to a tertiary carboy once enough lees has accumulated and only recheck SG several times prior to bottling?
The reason it is called secondary is because it is still fermenting a bit. As long as the SG is still dropping you should consider it to be still fermenting. Check it periodically and as noted if stable over a few weeks then you are done, then rack to tertiary for aging.
In secondary I rack each time I notice 1/4 " lees or so OR until I just cant stand not messing with it anymore. Usually only takes a couple of racks. Be sure to give it time as that is one of the best ways of letting it clear.
Finally - I noticed you mentioned you are a Scientist. I am a Chemist and have found with this craft (err addiction) that if you want reasonably repeatable results good solid practices and techniques are very important. However my first career was as a Chef and as a Chef your ingredients and the synergies between them are key to a successful result. What i am implying is that good solid practice and technique are more important than exacting conditions. Mead is pretty forgiving ingredients vary greatly and come in many flavor profiles. I believe this is more of a craft that relies on science for the desired end result.
Don't over think this, take good notes and follow good general practices most often what you find on the forums is solid advice even though it at times is conflicting advice. The point is it works for them under the conditions they have while using the ingredients and techniques they are following. As well, each of us have varying likes and or pallets and of course our own preferences. Figure out what works for you. I am convinced with a little experience you will be able to produce what you and perhaps others would consider some good to great Mead.
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