1st Brew! Irish Red

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Brewjangle

Brewjangle

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Greetings HBT!
I am in the middle of my first brew and I wanted to share my happenings from brew day and possibly get some advice or an All Clear from a more seasoned brewer!

First, I am very appreciative of this site with the wealth of knowledge, tips, techniques, etc... That have really inspired me to dive into this hobby! I have been reading about and researching methods/techniques for a few weeks. While its absolutely dizzying trying to piece it all together when you are new to it, i have had a great time reading your posts, checking out pics of past and present brews and feel like I learned so much great knowledge that I was pretty confident on my first brew day!

So, Rather than rip the kick stand off and tackle a pretty tall hill right off the bat I opted for an Irish Red extract kit to start. It came with pretty good step by step instructions to make it pretty fool proof, however, I didn't test my equipment before getting started which caused some problems.
I have a Bayou Classic single burner that, for some reason would not light and stay lit when turning up the gas. It continued to blow itself out. Not knowing what to do I found a balance that worked but it wasn't the full flame. With that, it took forever to bring to steeping temp, 155. I held the temp pretty steady only varying +-1 degree during the 30 min steep.
After which I added the included malt extract per the directions. The boil is where I'm not sure if I messed up.
Due to the low flame it took almost an hour to get above 200. It never fully reached a boil, but it hit 210 and because of my impatience I added the 1st addition of hops and started my 60 minute timer. After about 20 minutes holding steady just below boil I decided to pull the kettle inside to my stove to get a boil. It came to boil pretty quickly and at the 3 minute mark I added the last oz of hops. At 60 mins I pulled the kettle off and put it in a cold water bath to cool. I dropped the temp to 80 in about 30 minutes after which I rehydrated my yeast and pitched at about 75 degrees. OG was 1.042
Fermentation started within 24 hrs and bubbled happily all week! Today, I tested and the gravity came in at 1.012 so I transferred to secondary.

My question is, since I had problems getting to boil temp and added hops before truly boiling should I be concerned about off flavors, burnt taste, etc... Or something else I'm not even aware of?View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1446781621.767850.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1446781662.580276.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1446781681.456697.jpg

Brew
 
Hmmm. I will have to say yes? Reaching a boil is extremely important and I would venture to say 95% of extract brewing. Without a full boil, you arent getting the full usage of the hops, you arent boiling off DMS and tannins. You also do not get any boil off. You will still ferment because adding LME and DME is like adding lots of sugars, so yeast will eat that up. In the end, you made beer! As long as it reached and held boil for 5 minutes, you at least killed the nasties. As they say in the books, RDWHAHB!
 
Correction, I boiled on the stove for about 35 minutes, so I did get a boil just not the full hour. And I think I should have written that I pulled the kettle of the flame at 0 minutes. Not 60.
 
That is a lot of headspace in the secondary. If it is done fermenting, I would get that bottled sooner rather than later. Congratulations on your first batch!
 
BrewMeister49 said:
Hmmm. I will have to say yes? Reaching a boil is extremely important and I would venture to say 95% of extract brewing. Without a full boil, you arent getting the full usage of the hops, you arent boiling off DMS and tannins. You also do not get any boil off. You will still ferment because adding LME and DME is like adding lots of sugars, so yeast will eat that up. In the end, you made beer! As long as it reached and held boil for 5 minutes, you at least killed the nasties. As they say in the books, RDWHAHB!
Click to expand...
A lot of this is straight up wrong

If your thermometer was immersed in liquid and you were reading 210 then you were getting boiling. The heat loss from vapor escaping makes the liquid mass have a lower temp than the escaping vapor. You had full hop utilization, iso acids form at like 170 degrees. DMS is a non concern with extract and wouldn't have been an issue. Tannins don't get boiled off (their melting point is like at 200 Celsius imagine what the boiling point is) and they mostly reside in grain husk. Hops have small amounts of tannins.
 
BrewMeister49 said:
Hmmm. I will have to say yes? Reaching a boil is extremely important and I would venture to say 95% of extract brewing. Without a full boil, you arent getting the full usage of the hops, you arent boiling off DMS and tannins. You also do not get any boil off. You will still ferment because adding LME and DME is like adding lots of sugars, so yeast will eat that up. In the end, you made beer! As long as it reached and held boil for 5 minutes, you at least killed the nasties. As they say in the books, RDWHAHB!
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree and say you shouldn't be concerned. If it was really at 210, it MAY have made a minor difference if anything but I don't think it will be a difference that you will be able to tell. Also, I would completely skip secondary next time unless you are doing a big beer that you will be aging for a while. That is a lot of head space to keep that in there for an extended amount of time, so I would bottle up soon as long as your gravity is consistent over a few days. Brew on!
 
Why the need for a secondary with this beer? I would have skipped that. I rarely do them now unless im adding something weird like fruit. Hell, even then I just toss everything in the primary most of the time.
 
On the contrary. Large difference between steeping and boiling. Some people due to altitude boil at 200*f and some it takes the full 212*f. So depending on his altitude and weather ( temp where the boil occurred ) it may not have came to a boil. And that has a huge impact on your beer. That's why they advocate a roiling boil and not a small steep.
 
Probably won't be the best beer ever, but it will still be beer, so enjoy! Next time you'll want to make sure you have means of bringing the worrywort to a boil.

Also, there's a lot of good opinion here on the subject, although I would strongly suggest moving away from using a secondary unless you're adding fruit or spices.

Another key item to making great beer is temperature control during fermentation, as the yeast react differently based upon their temperature.

Good luck and enjoy!
 
theheroguy said:
A lot of this is straight up wrong

If your thermometer was immersed in liquid and you were reading 210 then you were getting boiling. The heat loss from vapor escaping makes the liquid mass have a lower temp than the escaping vapor. You had full hop utilization, iso acids form at like 170 degrees. DMS is a non concern with extract and wouldn't have been an issue. Tannins don't get boiled off (their melting point is like at 200 Celsius imagine what the boiling point is) and they mostly reside in grain husk. Hops have small amounts of tannins.
Click to expand...
Define "a lot"? The fact I used the word tannin instead of saying other off flavors? If I squeezed the snot out of my mash and released tannins, why would that be a big deal if it all boils out? Steeping hops and wort is very different than having a full boil. You don't utilize your hops and the boil off is out of whack, because there isn't any. Sorry homes. That creates a completely different beer than you intended.
 
BrewMeister49 said:
Define "a lot"? The fact I used the word tannin instead of saying other off flavors? If I squeezed the snot out of my mash and released tannins, why would that be a big deal if it all boils out? Steeping hops and wort is very different than having a full boil. You don't utilize your hops and the boil off is out of whack, because there isn't any. Sorry homes. That creates a completely different beer than you intended.
Click to expand...
First of all the whole "squeezing the bag releases tannins" is pretty much a known myth at this point. You mention tannins boiling out against but as I previously said tannins don't even melt until about 200c which is about 392 F If you meant another thing you would have said that but you don't know what you're talking about. Explain why hops aren't being utilized above isomerization temperature? You can't because it doesn't make sense. The only thing you listed that might be correct is about boil off (I don't really know and I will readily admit that) and I never corrected that. It isn't going to be a rolling boil but it will be a boil non the less. Please don't completely ignore the chemistry of what I posted next time you reply. I never said the OP would create a beer like what they intended (its a first time brew so that wasn't going to be likely anyway). I can't stand you making all these nonsense claims to a new brewer.

Revvy said:
I think the answer is found in these two quotes.



And from here; http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11694

From the Australians who pretty much came up with Brew In a Bag;



From Here- http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?p=30



So if you are not steeping any grains BIAB or Extract W/grains, tannins should not be an issue, and squeezing anything should be fine.

I tend to think this whole "don't squeeze the bag" thing was another "extrapolation" that someone once made as a comparison to tea bags, and like so many other things that turn out to be busted myths (Like Hot Side Aeration) it keeps getting passed around with very little actually validity.

I think that Basic Brewing/BYO may be due to doing another one of their joint experiments. There was some comments on youtube where James posted the basic brewin BIAB episode I referenced above.

Personally if you want to avoid it, do so...obviously it can't hurt NOT to squeeze the bag (though when I BIAB I am going to continue to squeeze the heck out of mine till I am proved wrong in my own experience.)

But, if you do squeeze, then don't panic, there is enough cases mentioned in ALL the "squeeze" threads of folks doing it and having no issues, to assume that you have a 50/50 shot or more of your beer turing out OK.

I've said it a million times, our beer is hardier than must new brewers give it credit. It tends to turn out OK, no matter what we do to it.
Click to expand...
 
Brewjangle: ignore BrewMeister49, those concerns are unfounded and not based on science. While it's true it is best to achieve a full rolling boil, you will not end up with terrible beer as a result. If you left the beer near boiling for longer after putting in your hops in, you might end up with a more bitter beer than intended, but that's about all. Pitching at 75 is a bit on the high side but nothing to worry about. I'm sure your first beer will be....beer. congrats!
 
Your right. I have no clue what I'm talking about. He stated that he never reached boil until the end when he brought it inside. He maintained "just below boil". But if you want to blow fluff to a new Brewer than cool. The fact is, it will not turn out as anticipated. If it did not even reach boil then the steeped the hops. But heck. You know that. I'm certain you know that everyone hits boil at the same temps. A boil is a boil. Not boiling is not the same as boiling. For one, it does not sterilize anything. I didn't see you said Celsius regarding tannins. And I'm not convinced that's a myth. I won't do it. Again, just as I stated, as long as it's not infected, it will turn out to be beer.
 
All that said, what was your target OG? That will define how it will turn out. Was this 100% extract or did you steep grains?
 
Brewjangle said:
Greetings HBT!
I am in the middle of my first brew and I wanted to share my happenings from brew day and possibly get some advice or an All Clear from a more seasoned brewer!

First, I am very appreciative of this site with the wealth of knowledge, tips, techniques, etc... That have really inspired me to dive into this hobby! I have been reading about and researching methods/techniques for a few weeks. While its absolutely dizzying trying to piece it all together when you are new to it, i have had a great time reading your posts, checking out pics of past and present brews and feel like I learned so much great knowledge that I was pretty confident on my first brew day!

So, Rather than rip the kick stand off and tackle a pretty tall hill right off the bat I opted for an Irish Red extract kit to start. It came with pretty good step by step instructions to make it pretty fool proof, however, I didn't test my equipment before getting started which caused some problems.
I have a Bayou Classic single burner that, for some reason would not light and stay lit when turning up the gas. It continued to blow itself out. Not knowing what to do I found a balance that worked but it wasn't the full flame. With that, it took forever to bring to steeping temp, 155. I held the temp pretty steady only varying +-1 degree during the 30 min steep.
After which I added the included malt extract per the directions. The boil is where I'm not sure if I messed up.
Due to the low flame it took almost an hour to get above 200. It never fully reached a boil, but it hit 210 and because of my impatience I added the 1st addition of hops and started my 60 minute timer. After about 20 minutes holding steady just below boil I decided to pull the kettle inside to my stove to get a boil. It came to boil pretty quickly and at the 3 minute mark I added the last oz of hops. At 60 mins I pulled the kettle off and put it in a cold water bath to cool. I dropped the temp to 80 in about 30 minutes after which I rehydrated my yeast and pitched at about 75 degrees. OG was 1.042
Fermentation started within 24 hrs and bubbled happily all week! Today, I tested and the gravity came in at 1.012 so I transferred to secondary.

My question is, since I had problems getting to boil temp and added hops before truly boiling should I be concerned about off flavors, burnt taste, etc... Or something else I'm not even aware of?View attachment 314165View attachment 314166View attachment 314167

Brew
Click to expand...

Im happy for you! Welcome to homebrewing...your beer will be great you will love it. I saw a video of soeone who knows there stuff and trust me he was doing 15 minute boils....anyways you dont have to worry as much about extract cause it had the holy cow boiled out of it to become extract! . ...you got plenty of bitter from hops at 60 im sure and healthy ferment umm where was i ...ill drink some with you cheers!
 
applescrap said:
Im happy for you! Welcome to homebrewing...your beer will be great you will love it. I saw a video of soeone who knows there stuff and trust me he was doing 15 minute boils....anyways you dont have to worry as much about extract cause it had the holy cow boiled out of it to become extract! . ...you got plenty of bitter from hops at 60 im sure and healthy ferment umm where was i ...ill drink some with you cheers!
Click to expand...

This. Your process will improve with every batch and your beer will keep getting better. Cheers.
 
BrewMeister49 said:
Your right. I have no clue what I'm talking about. He stated that he never reached boil until the end when he brought it inside. He maintained "just below boil". But if you want to blow fluff to a new Brewer than cool. The fact is, it will not turn out as anticipated. If it did not even reach boil then the steeped the hops. But heck. You know that. I'm certain you know that everyone hits boil at the same temps. A boil is a boil. Not boiling is not the same as boiling. For one, it does not sterilize anything. I didn't see you said Celsius regarding tannins. And I'm not convinced that's a myth. I won't do it. Again, just as I stated, as long as it's not infected, it will turn out to be beer.
Click to expand...

I think you need to do more reading. Hops will isomerize well below the boiling point which those of us who do no chill have to take into account because they do continue to isomerize until the wort is below about 170F. Boiling does not sterilize anything. For sterilization you need to use a pressure cooker because there are a couple things that can survive the boil, such as botulin spores that can survive up to about 259F but for most of the infectious agents that we brewers have to worry about, pasteurization is enough and that occurs at much lower temperatures. Milk is considered pasteurized if held at 140 degrees for 30 minutes. The time required for pasteurization goes down quickly as the temperature increases until at the boiling point it takes less than a second.

Tannin extraction comes from grain husks and it takes a combination of high pH and high temperature. Neither of those is sufficient by itself and tannins cannot be squeezed out.

Since this is an extract batch, DMS is probably nothing to worry about (one of the big reasons for a rolling boil) because the extract shouldn't have any in it as it would have be removed by the process of making the extract.
 
Thanks for all the GREAT feedback!!
Without quoting everyone, here are a few answers and additional info:
I did steep grains so it was not extract only. It had 12oz of Caramel 40L, 2oz special B and 2oz roasted barley specialty grains. After steeping I did not squeeze the bag (I've read that is a BAD thing to do) but did let it drain for about 5 minutes. I have a rather large kettle for extract brewing, 12.5 gallon, so I had a full 5 gallon brew going. After the "boil" I had 3.5 gallons transferred to the fermenter so I did get some boil off.
My target OG was 1.012 which is what I hit when I tested before racking to secondary.
My reason for racking to secondary, other than following the instructions, was hoping that would help it clarify. Will it help or am I wasting my time?
 
applescrap said:
Im happy for you! Welcome to homebrewing...your beer will be great you will love it. I saw a video of soeone who knows there stuff and trust me he was doing 15 minute boils....anyways you dont have to worry as much about extract cause it had the holy cow boiled out of it to become extract! . ...you got plenty of bitter from hops at 60 im sure and healthy ferment umm where was i ...ill drink some with you cheers!
Click to expand...


Thanks!!! I appreciate the encouragement!
 
I am guessing your TARGET FG was 1.012, not your target OG :). Your target OG was probably like 1.045 or so. To find your ABV, take your OG-FG and then multiply that difference by 131.5. To rack or not rack, that is the question - it might be the most debated topic on this entire forum. You learned the process and you'll have to see for yourself if it's "worth it." Many say it's dumb to do it unless you're aging, dry hopping or adding fruit. Many dry hop in primary anyway. I rack pretty much all beers, but it's personal preference. Many fear oxidation/infection from racking. In my 50+ batches, that's never been a problem. I don't consider racking "work" but others have their own views.

The big thing is that you LEARNED A LOT in your brew day. A brew day, IMO, is only a failure if it results in NEITHER drinkable brew OR acquired knowledge. If you get EITHER of those out of your brew day, than it's a good brew day.

I bet you'll get both from your debut batch. You never forget your first... brew :)
 
Yes, I meant my target FG. Thanks
I racked to try to clear it up since it had a lot of material floating around. I'm hoping it helps before bottling.
As for learning, it's been a very informative process. I journaled the entire process up till now so there are several things I will do differently on the next.
Thanks for all the help!
 
To help you with the issue of why you could not get a boil, have you checked the burner air intake settings? you most likely do not have the correct flame settings thats why you are getting a flame out when you increase the gas flow.
 
I read something about that afterwords, but I'm not sure how to adjust. It seems that maybe I adjust the circular cap where the hose meets the burner, but even then there seems to be a lot of open space. Doesn't look like it was adjusting as much as just moving a plate.
 
Brewjangle said:
I read something about that afterwords, but I'm not sure how to adjust. It seems that maybe I adjust the circular cap where the hose meets the burner, but even then there seems to be a lot of open space. Doesn't look like it was adjusting as much as just moving a plate.
Click to expand...
That is all you are doing, adjusting the mixture of fuel and air, you want to have all blue flames if possible.
 
Brewjangle, if you haven't bottled yet, I recommend you check out a good online priming calculator. Most kits provide 5 oz of corn sugar, which is usually way more than you need for all but the most carbonated beers. BTW, congrats on your first batch. It may not win an award, but it's just like the first fly you tie...if it catches a fish, you are a winner! Welcome to the obsession!
 
RedlegEd said:
Brewjangle, if you haven't bottled yet, I recommend you check out a good online priming calculator. Most kits provide 5 oz of corn sugar, which is usually way more than you need for all but the most carbonated beers. BTW, congrats on your first batch. It may not win an award, but it's just like the first fly you tie...if it catches a fish, you are a winner! Welcome to the obsession!
Click to expand...


Thanks for the calculator! The kit did include a 5oz bag, but it looks like I only need 3.7! Guess I will have some leftover FREE priming sugar! That's a great resource! Again, thanks!!'
 
RedlegEd said:
Brewjangle, if you haven't bottled yet, I recommend you check out a good online priming calculator. Most kits provide 5 oz of corn sugar, which is usually way more than you need for all but the most carbonated beers. BTW, congrats on your first batch. It may not win an award, but it's just like the first fly you tie...if it catches a fish, you are a winner! Welcome to the obsession!
Click to expand...


Thanks for the calculator! The kit did include a 5oz bag, but it looks like I only need 3.7! Guess I will have some leftover FREE priming sugar! That's a great resource! Again, thanks!!'
 
Brewjangle said:
Thanks for the calculator! The kit did include a 5oz bag, but it looks like I only need 3.7! Guess I will have some leftover FREE priming sugar! That's a great resource! Again, thanks!!'
Click to expand...

Hey Brewjangle. Let me also add my welcome to the other well-wishers.

Congrats on your first brew. Nicely done.

Couple of small pointers should you be interested

Steeping: Temperature is not critical. Bag the grains, throw them in and remove after 30 mins or 170F is reached as you're heating, whichever comes first.

Squeeze the bag if you want. Fear not. Tannins are not extractable via pressure. 170+F and 6.0+pH are both needed (not applicable here)

Secondary: If you want to use one, fill it all the way to the neck. That's why they are usually size-matched to the planned batch volume. Think of it just like a giant beer bottle. You wouldn't under-fill a beer bottle, nor should you under-fill a secondary vessel.

In short: Sounds like a very successful first brew. Congratulations. be sure to post a pic of that memorable first delicious pour of homebrew. A feeling that never really gets old. Cheers :mug:
 
Brewjangle, home brewing is all about learning, trying, and refining your process. Let me offer another really valuable resource. Brulosophy.com is a great site that backs up theory and/or conjecture with Exbeeriments (mispelling intended.) Read this to give yourself a better understanding of the impact of primary vs secondary.
 
Gavin C said:
Hey Brewjangle. Let me also add my welcome to the other well-wishers.

Congrats on your first brew. Nicely done.

Couple of small pointers should you be interested

Steeping: Temperature is not critical. Bag the grains, throw them in and remove after 30 mins or 170F is reached as you're heating, whichever comes first.

Squeeze the bag if you want. Fear not. Tannins are not extractable via pressure. 170+F and 6.0+pH are both needed (not applicable here)

Secondary: If you want to use one, fill it all the way to the neck. That's why they are usually size-matched to the planned batch volume. Think of it just like a giant beer bottle. You wouldn't under-fill a beer bottle, nor should you under-fill a secondary vessel.

In short: Sounds like a very successful first brew. Congratulations. be sure to post a pic of that memorable first delicious pour of homebrew. A feeling that never really gets old. Cheers :mug:
Click to expand...

I trust his advice.....except for when im being a jerk....Sorry gavin

View attachment 1446958157011.jpg
 
Brewjangle said:
Does that hold true even if it's only a 5 gal batch but the Carboy is 6.5 gal?
Click to expand...

Yes. That size vessel is ill-suited as a secondary vessel for a 5 gallon batch.

Correctly filled Secondary Vessels
maxresdefault.jpg
 
RedlegEd said:
Brewjangle, home brewing is all about learning, trying, and refining your process. Let me offer another really valuable resource. Brulosophy.com is a great site that backs up theory and/or conjecture with Exbeeriments (mispelling intended.) Read this to give yourself a better understanding of the impact of primary vs secondary.
Click to expand...


Hi RedLegEd,
I found his blog a couple of weeks ago and have read a few articles, but I had not come across the one you referred. Thanks! That was a great exBEERiment on the use of secondaries! Greatly appreciate you passing that on! I think I have spend the better part of 6 hours reading through his posts so far!
 
Gavin C said:
Yes. That size vessel is ill-suited as a secondary vessel for a 5 gallon batch.



Correctly filled Secondary Vessels

maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...


Ah, guess I will need to add a couple of items to the wish list. Prior to this brew I have only made wine so I just went with what I have on hand. Thanks!
 
Brewjangle said:
Ah, guess I will need to add a couple of items to the wish list. Prior to this brew I have only made wine so I just went with what I have on hand. Thanks!
Click to expand...

No worries. There is of course the other way, free and simple, to prevent too much head-space in a secondary vessel.
 

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