iodine vs Iodophor

Is there any reason I could not use Iodine from wal-mart. Seems to me as long as the % solution was the in the correct range I don't see any reason to pay the LHBS 4 time the price for Iodine. I know I'm being a cheap skate here but I looking for ways to justify all the money I just spent for equipt.

I am curious about that as well. It seems like it should be ok once you figure the right amount to use. I know that the next time I need new sanitizer I will go out of town to a farm supply store and look for the iodine based sanitizer that they sell there. Apparently they sell something remarkably similar to iodophor, but much cheaper, and by the gallon.

- magno

magno said:

I am curious about that as well. It seems like it should be ok once you figure the right amount to use. I know that the next time I need new sanitizer I will go out of town to a farm supply store and look for the iodine based sanitizer that they sell there. Apparently they sell something remarkably similar to iodophor, but much cheaper, and by the gallon.

- magno

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That's a great thought I didn't know that I'll check the farm store the next time I go.

The betadine equivilent at wal-mart has an Iodine content of 1% the iodophor is 1.5% the directions for iodophor say use 2 oz. to 5 gal of water.
So it seems that 2 oz. of betadine would make 1/3 less or about 3.67 gal. Or 3 oz. of betadine to 5 gal. water.

I use medical Betadine. 10% auqueous iodine standard solution.
The Stuff is good enough for surgery so it's good enough for me.

1.25ml in 1 litre of water make a no rinse solution

A 500ml $6 bottle is enough for around 100 brews:rockin:


If you use Betadine and oxyclean I reckon you're running at around 10% cost of the LHBS equivalents

The old 'Iodine' chestnut!

'No rinse' sanitizers don't seem to be approved in the UK so are expensive when you price them at online HBS.

I've looked and compared the contents of the 'Idophor' brand (Thanks ajf for giving me the ingredients off the back of your bottle!) to standard 'povidone iodine' solutions used in both veterinary and medical applications.

It's not the Iodine thats the problem - It's the contents of the 'solution' that's put me off. I've never found one in the UK that matches the list of ingredients which I know is 'at least US levels of safety'. Every one I've ever found is purely for 'external use', not ingesting.

I know - "Tiny quantities used, use a bottle tree, drip dry them, plus you'll also lose that goitre, etc, etc"

Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I'm not. But really, I've already donated my liver to the greater good of this forum - I can't give up much more!

If I'm not mistake Mouthwash uses 1% solution of iodine.
Surely the aqueous solution is just water.

So I'm running at less than the strength of an ingestible mouth wash. (Or have I got it wrong)
If so I've had no side effects yet.

orfy said:

If I'm not mistake Mouthwash uses 1% solution of iodine.
Surely the aqueous solution is just water.

So I'm running at less than the strength of an ingestible mouth wash. (Or have I got it wrong)
If so I've had no side effects yet.

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As I said it's not the iodine that 'worries' me but the 'solution' in povodine iodine isn't 'just water'.
It's a fair point that some of the other chemicals used (not just the iodine) may be found in mouthwash too.
The alcohol we drink causes more damage I'm sure.......

Any idea what's in it then? I think the company is metlock. I though it'd be listed. I could always give them a call.

Caplan said:

The old 'Iodine' chestnut!

'No rinse' sanitizers don't seem to be approved in the UK so are expensive when you price them at online HBS.

I've looked and compared the contents of the 'Idophor' brand (Thanks ajf for giving me the ingredients off the back of your bottle!) to standard 'povidone iodine' solutions used in both veterinary and medical applications.

It's not the Iodine thats the problem - It's the contents of the 'solution' that's put me off. I've never found one in the UK that matches the list of ingredients which I know is 'at least US levels of safety'. Every one I've ever found is purely for 'external use', not ingesting.

I know - "Tiny quantities used, use a bottle tree, drip dry them, plus you'll also lose that goitre, etc, etc"

Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I'm not. But really, I've already donated my liver to the greater good of this forum - I can't give up much more!

Click to expand...

You know I was wondering the same thing. Then I thought it's probably just water that's the cheapest thing they can put in so I'd have to say I'm with Orfy here.
I figure I can always give up Iodized salt.

We have tons of this Zep brand Zep-I-Dine at work. I always wondered if I could use it in place of iodophor. It says it contains "iodophor" and is safe for hospitals, restaurants, and dairies, which leads me to think that it is safe for brewing on the cheap.

http://www.zep.com/ProductCatalog/ProductBrowse.asp?img=&superSection=25&section=146&subSection=1046

I picked up a bottle of the Equate (Wal-Mart brand) Providone today. The inactive ingredients are: citric acid, disodium phosphate, glycerin, nonoxynol-9, sodium hydroxide, and purified water.

Some of those I'm unfamiliar with, but I'll give it a try anyway. It can't be too harmful, or it wouldn't be any good for a product that's supposed to sanitize open wounds.

Lil' Sparky said:

I picked up a bottle of the Equate (Wal-Mart brand) Providone today. The inactive ingredients are: citric acid, disodium phosphate, glycerin, nonoxynol-9, sodium hydroxide, and purified water.

Some of those I'm unfamiliar with, but I'll give it a try anyway. It can't be too harmful, or it wouldn't be any good for a product that's supposed to sanitize open wounds.

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Hmmmmm......nonoxynol-9....the same active ingredient used in spermicides....

Probably OK, but I just don't like the though of that being near my beer...

I guess if you put sperm in any sanitiser it'll kill them.
Any one want to try an experiment?

Did it list the % ? I'd think you'd absorb more using it full strenght on a cut or scrap that you would by diluting 3 oz. to 5 gal of water then drinking the stuff. It all sounds harmless except the nonoxynol-9 which is a germicidal detergetent

here's a link about the side effects of high doses

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/1053DE9E-E170-4007-8627-16A4BA628054.asp

nkonkie said:

Did it list the % ? I'd think you'd absorb more using it full strenght on a cut or scrap that you would by diluting 3 oz. to 5 gal of water then drinking the stuff. It all sounds harmless except the nonoxynol-9 which is a germicidal detergetent

here's a link about the side effects of high doses

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/1053DE9E-E170-4007-8627-16A4BA628054.asp

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did you have to reference it from the aids web? lol

nkonkie said:

Did it list the % ? I'd think you'd absorb more using it full strenght on a cut or scrap that you would by diluting 3 oz. to 5 gal of water then drinking the stuff.

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Not the % N-9. It is 1% iodine, whereas iodophor is 1.6%. You should then be able to use it at 1.5 * the rate of iodophor. Interestingly, iodophor doesn't list what inactive ingredients it has. FAIK, it could have the sperm-killer in it, too...

At least if you get overly excited while brewing, nobody will get pregnant from drinking your beer!

Iodophor - 2 oz. to 5 gal....how much is 2 oz? A cap full. What are the risks of not letting it dry? Health risks?

thanks

According to the Iodophor that I have, it's 0.5 oz or 15 mL to 5 gallons.
One capful is 0.25 oz or 7.5 mL

-a.

McTarnamins said:

What are the risks of not letting it dry? Health risks?

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ajf gave you the no-rinse concentration, and you don't have to let it things completely dry.

McTarnamins said:

Iodophor - 2 oz. to 5 gal....how much is 2 oz? A cap full. What are the risks of not letting it dry? Health risks?

thanks

Click to expand...

here's a portion of what wikipedia says about iodine:

Dietary intake
The United States Food and Drug Administration recommends (21 CFR 101.9 (c)(8)(iv)) 150 micrograms of iodine per day for both men and women. This is necessary for proper production of thyroid hormone. Natural sources of iodine include sea life, such as kelp and certain seafood. [1] Salt for human consumption is often enriched with iodine and is referred to as iodized salt.


[edit] Iodine deficiency
Main article: Iodine deficiency
In areas where there is little iodine in the diet—typically remote inland areas and semi-arid equatorial climates where no marine foods are eaten—iodine deficiency gives rise to hypothyroidism, symptoms of which are extreme fatigue, goiter, mental slowing, depression, weight gain, and low basal body temperatures.

Iodine deficiency is also the leading cause of preventable mental retardation, an effect which happens primarily when babies and small children are made hypothyroid by lack of the element. The addition of iodine to table salt has largely eliminated this problem in the wealthier nations, but iodine deficiency remains a serious public health problem in the developing world.


[edit] Toxicity of iodine
Excess iodine has symptoms similar to those of iodine deficiency. Commonly encountered symptoms are abnormal growth of the thyroid gland and disorders in functioning and growth of the organism as a whole. Elemental iodine, I2, is deadly poison if taken in larger amounts; if 2-3 grams of it is consumed, it is fatal to humans. Iodides are similar in toxicity to bromides.

I am new to this, but not to biology/chemistry. I'm a microbiologist, so I know a thing or two about iodine. When I saw the price of the solution at the home brew shop I was shocked. $20 for half a liter of iodine solution, you have to be out of your mind. So I figured how to make my own.

***quick answer:
Stock solution: 3.33g iodine/1L water.
Working solution:: Add 14.8ml (one TBS) of stock solution to 3.78 L (1 gallon) of water for a final concentration of 12.5 ppm iodine
****

Lucky for me our lab has lots and lots of elemental iodine. (pure I). So I did the calculations to make my own and so far it works great. (although I'm on my first batch of beer, but my math is correct and my iodine solution is the exact thing they sell, minus the extra aq stuff they put in as 'fillers')

To Milli-Q water (distilled H20 for those who don't have access to Milli-Q system) add 3.33g I / 1 liter of water. This is your stock solution.

A working solution (12.5 ppm) is made by adding 14.8 ml (or one tablespoon for those of you stuck on the stupid imperial measurement system) of stock solution per 3.78 l (1 gallon) of water.

Soak as you would with the store bought stuff, and no need to rinse.

You can order 100 g of iodine from a scientific supply co. for around 10 bucks. This should last you years.

S I O said:

I am new to this, but not to biology/chemistry. I'm a microbiologist, so I know a thing or two about iodine. When I saw the price of the solution at the home brew shop I was shocked. $20 for half a liter of iodine solution, you have to be out of your mind. So I figured how to make my own.

***quick answer:
Stock solution: 3.33g iodine/1L water.
Working solution:: Add 14.8ml (one TBS) of stock solution to 3.78 L (1 gallon) of water for a final concentration of 12.5 ppm iodine
****

Lucky for me our lab has lots and lots of elemental iodine. (pure I). So I did the calculations to make my own and so far it works great. (although I'm on my first batch of beer, but my math is correct and my iodine solution is the exact thing they sell, minus the extra aq stuff they put in as 'fillers')

To Milli-Q water (distilled H20 for those who don't have access to Milli-Q system) add 3.33g I / 1 liter of water. This is your stock solution.

A working solution (12.5 ppm) is made by adding 14.8 ml (or one tablespoon for those of you stuck on the stupid imperial measurement system) of stock solution per 3.78 l (1 gallon) of water.

Soak as you would with the store bought stuff, and no need to rinse.

You can order 100 g of iodine from a scientific supply co. for around 10 bucks. This should last you years.

Click to expand...

Very cool. Thanks for the info.



Gedvondur

S I O said:

I am new to this, but not to biology/chemistry. I'm a microbiologist, so I know a thing or two about iodine. .

Click to expand...

I'm sure this guy knows more about it than I do but this approach might not be right for the average Joe.

here's why:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...'03'.pdf+PURE+IODINE&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us


http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele053.html

Care should be taken in handling and using iodine. It can burn the skin and damage the eyes and mucous membranes. Pure iodine is poisonous if ingested.

Also it seems that Pure Iodine is used in meth labs so purchasing pure iodine might cause you to get a call from your friendly neighborhood DEA
or Drug Task Force Agent.

The way I read the Iodophor label, the mixing ratio was half ounce for five gallons of water. It has worked for me for two years and no germs.

beer4breakfast said:

They may have an MSDS saftey sheet available if you write and ask.

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These MSDS sheets are largely a waste of time, they are filled in by EAC chemists/toxicologists with rabid lawyers from the legal department of the chemical companys breathing down their necks. They really overegg the dangers because it prevents any comeback on them (you will see all sorts of crazy suggestions for handling etc, if i belived the half of it id come to work in a triple layered NBC suit and then push the chemicals around with long metals poles while standing behind about 6 inches of lead ).
The absolute clincher for me was the distilled water we got in (which is very very mildly acidic).
The sheet advised if you got the WATER in your eyes to wash your eyes with, wait for it, copious amounts of WATER. If i splill it on my skin then guess what? yes thats right wash with copious amounts of WATER and so on and so on .

Ture, pure iodine MAY be dangerous if you eat it. But don't EAT IT! Mix it in H2O. Trust me, I've been working with this stuff for years and it's not going to burn you, or anything. If you want to be extra cautious you can wear gloves, but its not required. Prure Iodine is inert, solid material, so there is no way you are going to get dust or anything from it. Just keep it away from your face and all. A little common sence goes a long way. Oh, it will stain your clothes, however, at higher concentations. (ie. the stock solution). If it were that dangerous they wouldn't sell it as easy as they do. You have more harmful chems under your kitchen sink for cleaning your house.

And like delboy said, MSDS sheets are a little crazy. Hell, even water has an MSDS, and guess what? Water can be dangerous in large quantities, and it can even kill you if you inhale it. Like I said, common sense goes a long ways.

I'm not quite sure about the "people using it to cook meth" thing. Perhaps they do. I honestly wouldn't know. But Iodine has many many other uses besides cooking meth, so your concerns about a call from the feds is nothing to worry about, in my oppinion. Unless you are cooking meth.

S I O said:

I'm not quite sure about the "people using it to cook meth" thing. Perhaps they do. I honestly wouldn't know. But Iodine has many many other uses besides cooking meth, so your concerns about a call from the feds is nothing to worry about, in my oppinion. Unless you are cooking meth.

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Heh, that gave me a chuckle. Perhaps they are discussing the same thing on the methtalk.com message boards.

I can't imagine what you would use iodine for in meth, but then again I don't understand why they use Draino either.


Gedvondur

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I thought I was post it anyways.




Certain types of drain cleaners have very high percentages of sulphuric acid (+90%) and I think its the sulphuric acid they are after when cooking meth.

S I O said:

I am new to this, but not to biology/chemistry. I'm a microbiologist, so I know a thing or two about iodine. When I saw the price of the solution at the home brew shop I was shocked. $20 for half a liter of iodine solution, you have to be out of your mind. So I figured how to make my own.

***quick answer:
Stock solution: 3.33g iodine/1L water.
Working solution:: Add 14.8ml (one TBS) of stock solution to 3.78 L (1 gallon) of water for a final concentration of 12.5 ppm iodine
****

Lucky for me our lab has lots and lots of elemental iodine. (pure I). So I did the calculations to make my own and so far it works great. (although I'm on my first batch of beer, but my math is correct and my iodine solution is the exact thing they sell, minus the extra aq stuff they put in as 'fillers')

To Milli-Q water (distilled H20 for those who don't have access to Milli-Q system) add 3.33g I / 1 liter of water. This is your stock solution.

A working solution (12.5 ppm) is made by adding 14.8 ml (or one tablespoon for those of you stuck on the stupid imperial measurement system) of stock solution per 3.78 l (1 gallon) of water.

Soak as you would with the store bought stuff, and no need to rinse.

You can order 100 g of iodine from a scientific supply co. for around 10 bucks. This should last you years.

Click to expand...

I know this is a very old thread, but I am hoping you are still around. If you put 3.33 grams of iodine into 1000ml what is the percentage you get? 3%? I can not get pure iodine where I am (hell, I can get hardly anything, including Iodophor). I can however get 2% iodine and want to try and figure out how much I have to use to get to the 12.5ppm

IanT said:

I know this is a very old thread, but I am hoping you are still around. If you put 3.33 grams of iodine into 1000ml what is the percentage you get? 3%? I can not get pure iodine where I am (hell, I can get hardly anything, including Iodophor). I can however get 2% iodine and want to try and figure out how much I have to use to get to the 12.5ppm

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For a weight/weight percentage, you could use the nominal 1mL = 1g for water (it will be a little off room temp but should be pretty close).

3.33 g / 1003.33 = 0.00332 = 0.332%

But Iodophor is 1.5%, a d according to the calculations show on S I O’s comment, you place 14.8ml of his solution in 5 gallons of water to give you 12.5ppm. If it holds that his solution is only 0.3%, it would be 5 times weaker than Iodophor, so that amount could not possibly give you the correct ppm….