Is it me or BeerSmith?

I don't know what I am doing wrong, but it seems like my efficiency actually gets worse everything time I brew.
Robust Porter:
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.5 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.1 %
8.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.9 %
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 6 18.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 7 24.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Perle [8.00 %] - Aroma Steep 10.0 min Hop 8 0.0
Est. OG 1.062 - with 65% efficiency. Actual OG - 1.053 - 53% efficiency

I heated up the cooler with 180 F water and added the grain at 164 F; the temp dropped to around 152 F and stirred only two times. After 60 minutes, I fly sparged at 165 F. I boiled the wort for a total of 85 minutes; 10 minute before adding the hops and 75 minute hop boil.
Anything stand out that I might have done wrong?

are your volumes off?

Actually, no. I thought it would be too much water, but I used around 8.5 total gallons. I would probably have had 5 gallons in the fermentor if I didn't splash a ton out due to a new "brew bucket filter" I bought.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I used 5.2 pH stabilizer as well.

Hotter sparge water? Also what was your total runoff volume?

What post boil volume is the recipe designed for and what post boil volume did you get?
Did you hit your pre-boil OG?

Post-boil volume was in the five gallon range; I can't quite confirm it because of the splash problem, but that shouldn't have an effect on the OG.
The pre-boil OG was 1.043 almost 10 points less than where it should have been. I thought going from batch sparging to fly sparging would have helped, but nope. I must need to adjust my sparge arm. I made an arm out of PVC piping with drilled holes that is attached to my cooler lid.
The sparge water started to pool since the out-flow wasn't set to be fast enough. Could that have been it?

Here's what I do:

After sparging I test pre boil OG. If it's low I add some DME to raise it, I note how much DME it takes so I can make a grain adjustment to my recipes...this adjusts for equipment efficiency problems...if it's high I add more water. Then I boil until I hit my post boil OG...if I boil off a little too much I adjust back with water.

EDIT: I use a refractometer so I am able to take a lot of SG readings without much effort

How fine was the crush on your grains? Are they already crushed, or do you crush them in your own mill?

also - temperature readings of samples? (BeerSmith has some great tools - hydrometer, temp correction, boil off, etc.) For example was that 1.053 reading taken at 60F? Because the "expected value" assumes you're comparing apples to apples.


here's the other thing - in BeerSmith, I get 1.052 for 10 lbs of 2-row at 72% efficiency. The caramel won't give you hardly any extra fermentables, nor will the chocolate nor black patent. they're there for color and flavor. The CaraMunich only bumps it up to 1.054.

so...yes, BeerSmith may be off - because when I do the calculations, it bumps up higher for the crystal than I would have expected ...Hmmm....

I've never used 2 lbs of crystal in a recipe, so I've never noticed this -

Hang Glider said:

The caramel won't give you hardly any extra fermentables, nor will the chocolate nor black patent. they're there for color and flavor.

Click to expand...

Not sure why you think that. Crystal has 33-34 max ppg per lb, only slightly less than base malt. Chocolate and black less but in the 25-30 ppg range.

I was also thinking maybe crush?

Have you been keeping track of your efficiency for all of brews or just since you've gotten Beersmith? If you've been keeping track of your efficiency has it suddenly changed and, if is, can you go back to see when it first changed and see if you did anything differently. Also, make sure you have all of your profiles in Beersmith set up for your system (loss to mlt/kettle/transfer/etc, boil-off rate, cooling loss, stuff like this).

I'm having the same trouble with Beersmith, as far as I know. I nailed my bre-boil gravity, 1.050, nailed the pre-boil volume and everything seemed to go exactly as expected in my boil/cool and was really close on boil-off, loss to trub, etc. My OG ended up 1.054, and BS has it at 1.062. For what it's worth, I also had 2lbs of Crystal in my batch.

I used Beersmith for the first time last week. My equipment profile needs a bit of adjustment. I got very close to the predicted gravities. I did transfer a lot of break to the fermenter that I usually leave behind.

I couldn't be happier with the results from my first try.

Temp: I take pre-boil hydro readings and use the temp conversion to get a more accurate reading.
I have been taking a better record of my efficiencies since I started using BeerSmith.
Mill: I use the mill at my lhbs so I am not to worried about that being the issue.
I have always have had temp control issues with my tun/cooler. I there there is too much head space and a lot of the warmth gets lost in it.

Make sure you have set up your equipment profile in beersmith. For example, I use a 10 gallon Rubbermaid MLT, a 10 Gallon Rubbermaid for my HLT and a 10 gallon brew pot all for five gallon batches. Beersmith did not have this equipment profile so i had to manually create it. This will make a big difference if you are using a different equipment profile in beersmith than what you actually use.

chickypad said:

Not sure why you think that. Crystal has 33-34 max ppg per lb, only slightly less than base malt. Chocolate and black less but in the 25-30 ppg range.

Click to expand...

I get my information from the internet, so it may certainly be faulty!

Crystal malts contain a high concentration of Maillard reaction products. Mallard reactions are the most important source of color in beer. They occur in a hot moist environment as reducing sugars react with free amino acids. When sugars participate in the Maillard reaction they become unfermentable. That’s why using a higher proportion of crystal malt will increase the final gravity of a beer.

from here


and a little bit about adding too much caramel:

For more information, let’s turn to a Matt Kaplan’s article in Nature News, “Beer gets fresh approach” (June 2, 2008). The author explains how the researchers linked the chemical Maillard reaction to the degradation of taste of beer as it aged. [the Maillard Reaction is] “a chemical reaction between an amino acid and a reducing sugar, usually requiring heat.”

from here