Gelatinization of unmalted barley

Friends, brewers, barmen, lend me your beers.

Many English and American fullgrain beers contain ingredients such as flaked wheat, flaked maize and flaked barley. Discussions in this forum tell me that these adjuncts have had their starches gelatinized by the flaking process, which involves crushing the grain between rollers under high pressure, which raises the temperature, thus gelatinizing the starches, which makes them water-soluble.

Here in South Africa these flaked grains are difficult to find and expensive when found, having had to be imported from Europe or the US. So I have looked for alternatives.

Posters in these forums tell me that I cannot use pearled barley as a substitute for flaked barley, because the ungelatinized starch is not water-soluble and will just end up in my beer unconverted, with starch haze as the only result.

However, literature tells me that the gelatinization temperature of unmalted barley is well below the conversion temperature of malted barley.

So. Confused as usual, I have the following questions.

1. Is the brief heat generated by rolling the grains (converting them into flaked products) actually sufficient to fully gelatinize the starches? It seems a bit quick to me.

2. Seeing as the gelatinization temperature of unmalted barley is lower than that of malted barley, why doesn't the unmalted barley simply gelatinize during the mash?

3. Shouldn't steeping unmalted barley (e.g. pearl barley) in water at say, 60-62C / 140-142F, be enough to gelatinize it and turn it into a viable alternative for flaked barley?

Your opinion on the above would be appreciated. Tnx!

// FvW

Good questions. I think you can gelatinise the perl barley using a decoction method. You may opt to modify the decoction by bringing just the perl barley portion of your mash to a boil for while and then add that to the rest of your mash. Just count on it raising the main mash body temp several degrees. So perhaps start out with your malted barley at 142 and bring your perl barley up to boiling, hold it for 5-10 minutes (not sure on the time needed); then add it back to the main mash. I think you would still need to break up the perl barley using a crusher/grinder/rolling pin, prior to boiling it.
Like you, I have derived the above methodology from the literature. Therefore, I could be completely off the mark.

What you are looking for is a cereal mash. I use this on the occasion that I use raw wheat for a wit beer. It is incredibly difficult to mill...

I will often take the raw portion and boil it until it's a soft porridge consistency, which can take a while. You can do it the day before brewing and just add it to a mash with sufficient diastatic power to convert the starches. It will tend to get pretty gummy in the pot and it's a good idea to remove it from the heat and let it cool to about 70C and stir in some crushed 2-row. The enzymes from the 2-row will start to liquify the gooey mass fairly quickly. Then it is easy to add to the mash tun. I have experimented with a pressure cooker with pretty good results, reserving the crushed 2-row till it cools. Between 30-45 minutes at 15PSI seems to completely burst open the raw wheat.

I have not tried this with other unmalted grains.

We used raw barley at our distillery and found that extended gelation at high temps (>190F) and a protein rest were required to get good saccharification. Maybe some super robust protein matrix holds the starch granules together really tightly? Whatever it is seems to inhibit thorough gelling at the normal (lower) temperatures I've seen for raw barley in the literature.

Even after a high temp gel I can still see translucent barley granules held together in little chunks. A protein rest seems to allow these to liquefy much better during the sacch rest.

Good luck.

I have successfully brewed with all unmalted whole grain wheat and barley as follows:
Roast grains in oven until brown
Soak grains in hot tap water overnight
Add water to cover swollen grain by 2 inches
Boil for 15 - 20 minutes (this will geletanize the grains); keep gelatized grain at slight boil while completing following:
In separate pot, add hot water, oat flakes, wild rice,
Corn flakes, any other flaked cereal containing malted wheat or/or malted barley
Smash fresh figs and plums and add to flaked mash
Add fungus and/or fresh ginger root
Add a few smashed oranges, peel and all
Add amylase enzyme
Stir often and start adding a quart of the boiled grains to mash mixture, add every 10 minutes while stirring in well until all boiled grain has been added to flaked cereal and fruit mash
Allow mash temperature to drop below 130 F
Add more Amylase enzyme
Slowly heat mash to 140 F and rest for 20 minutes
Slowly heat mash to 150 F and rest for 15 minutes
Slowly heat mash to 160 F and rest for 10 minutes
Mash out, heat mash to 175 F
Sparge with 180 F water until runoff is clear
During boil add some honey and date syrup or cane sugar or molasses to target OG gravity
I add coriander abd cardmon if no hops acailable during last 5 minutes of boil
Cool wort and pitch yeast